Don't just book it - Thomas **** it!
Don't just book it - Thomas **** it!
Justr returned form much anticipated half-term holiday and wondered -
Has a Thomas Cook flight ever departed on time?
7 hours delay outbound MAN-SOF
1 3/4 hrs delay SOF -MAN
excuse both times was technical but believe state of fleet probably forces the issue.
Still awaiting full explanation.
PS Sofia airport security measures very straight forward, sensible and humane.......Manchester measures: stark contrast
Has a Thomas Cook flight ever departed on time?
7 hours delay outbound MAN-SOF
1 3/4 hrs delay SOF -MAN
excuse both times was technical but believe state of fleet probably forces the issue.
Still awaiting full explanation.
PS Sofia airport security measures very straight forward, sensible and humane.......Manchester measures: stark contrast
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Thmas Cook - Airline and Travel Agents
Shambolic doesn't come close! I booked a holiday and when I went to collect my tickets I found a letter, in the folder, addressed to me and 3 months old, telling me that my flights had been changed by 7 hours and to ring and discuss possible changes with them I was recently contacted and asked if I would book another holiday with them and said that, after this incompetence and reduction of baggage allowance to 15kg hold and 5kg(!!!!!!) cabin I wouldn't consider it. If EZ can give you unlimited cabin baggage, by weight, free why do TC have to limit everyone to 5kg?
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Has a Thomas Cook flight ever departed on time?
excuse both times was technical but believe state of fleet probably forces the issue
Still awaiting full explanation
PS Sofia airport security measures very straight forward, sensible and humane.......Manchester measures: stark contrast
neither do people deserve to have to put up with your comments....
Paxing All Over The World
A2QFI
Personal Opinion: Because T Cook & Sons have fallen through a hole in the middle.
Cooks have been, in the very modern sense 'disintermediated'. Cooks made their name and fortune by being the intermediary of transport and accommodation. They bridged the gap of language and country and currency. You could rely on them (and their competitors) to know the answers to difficult questions about hotels and inoculations and anything in the foreign land. They created a market and so, of course, many tried to take that market away from them:
Cooks (and others) no longer have the full range of travel components under their control. Their revenues decline because their defined market is shrinking. They are struggling to redefine themselves and have to cut costs at every corner. Further consolidation will follow. I say this with no pleasure, it's just what has happened to countless numbers of business' across the developed world.
I'm a particularly independently minded traveller and I have not used a travel agent since December 1988. It never occurs to me to use an agent or package dealer, as I can find all the elements I want online or through friends and prefer to deal directly with those supplying the transport/hotel.
Wikipedia tells me that Thomas Cook arranged his first excursion in 1841.
Thomas Cook - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The group that now has the name is still around some 170 years later. Most companies do not make it past 100 years, so they have done remarkably well, especially since he was on the verge of bankruptcy within his first ten years. Reading the potted history of the company and it's numerous financing problems, takeovers and mergers is very interesting. I expect that the name will continue.
If EZ can give you unlimited cabin baggage, by weight, free why do TC have to limit everyone to 5kg?
Cooks have been, in the very modern sense 'disintermediated'. Cooks made their name and fortune by being the intermediary of transport and accommodation. They bridged the gap of language and country and currency. You could rely on them (and their competitors) to know the answers to difficult questions about hotels and inoculations and anything in the foreign land. They created a market and so, of course, many tried to take that market away from them:
- Very serious competition throughout the 1980s and 90s.
- LCC carriers.
- The Internet.
- Debit/Credit cards that work across sovereign borders
- Multinational companies (carriers, hotel chains etc.)
- Transport companies dealing more directly with their customer: air, train, ship, coach.
Cooks (and others) no longer have the full range of travel components under their control. Their revenues decline because their defined market is shrinking. They are struggling to redefine themselves and have to cut costs at every corner. Further consolidation will follow. I say this with no pleasure, it's just what has happened to countless numbers of business' across the developed world.
I'm a particularly independently minded traveller and I have not used a travel agent since December 1988. It never occurs to me to use an agent or package dealer, as I can find all the elements I want online or through friends and prefer to deal directly with those supplying the transport/hotel.
Wikipedia tells me that Thomas Cook arranged his first excursion in 1841.
Thomas Cook - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The group that now has the name is still around some 170 years later. Most companies do not make it past 100 years, so they have done remarkably well, especially since he was on the verge of bankruptcy within his first ten years. Reading the potted history of the company and it's numerous financing problems, takeovers and mergers is very interesting. I expect that the name will continue.
Fernanjet - your response only goes to highlight poor attitude of airlines and their poor attitude to passngers - are you partly to blame?
You could have taken the view that JA did not have to bother commenting but provided what could be some usefull 'free' feedback.
Lack of credible back-up is normally reason for a delay such as 7 hours if original aircraft not fit for purpose.
JA was probably spending his hard-earned wonga on trying to cheer himself up by going on holiday - just a shame he used TC as I also have never departed on time when flying with them!
You could have taken the view that JA did not have to bother commenting but provided what could be some usefull 'free' feedback.
Lack of credible back-up is normally reason for a delay such as 7 hours if original aircraft not fit for purpose.
JA was probably spending his hard-earned wonga on trying to cheer himself up by going on holiday - just a shame he used TC as I also have never departed on time when flying with them!
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are you partly to blame?
- Prat....what do you want me to say - yes i went out and damaged the aircraft? - stupidity in its finest form!
You could have taken the view that JA did not have to bother commenting but provided what could be some usefull 'free' feedback.
I think the line
Still awaiting full explanation
Lack of credible back-up is normally reason for a delay such as 7 hours if original aircraft not fit for purpose
they utilise their aircraft like other charter airlines, and make money out of it....that's survival - not stupidity.
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Just to add my opinions....
This summer Thomas Cook will have an A320 as a standby aircraft 6 days of the week and an A330 for May / June / October! So they do have back-up aircraft. Also, it is not always the fault of the airline that there are delays...take the other week when a set of stairs caused damage to a TC aircraft. This is obviously something outside the airlines control!
And I have never departed late when using them!
Lack of credible back-up is normally reason for a delay such as 7 hours if original aircraft not fit for purpose.
just a shame he used TC as I also have never departed on time when flying with them!
Jem60
don't get me wrong - Ryanscare have brand new aircraft but I still wouldn't fly with them!
Comment made as numerous reasons given my different members of the crewairport staff - underlining feeling that we were being fed a line or two?
One reason involved use of sub-leased aircraft that wasn't up to scratch so an aircraft had to be flown down from Glasgow. Fine, but this surely must have been known well before pax turned up at airport - poor service - sorry - just how I feel from other experiences. Return flight delayed 105-mins due to incorrect database/fms snag?
Fernanjet
Just appeared to be 'taken for a ride' - or not.
Would be interesting to learn how many technical issues this particular company runs with before one breaks the camels back - so to speak.
I'm aware how MELs are circumvented as I've had ground staff try and pressurise me to accept/ignore certain faults as captain of similiar sized aoc aircraft.
Read between the lines of CHIRP and you can tell it's a common practice caused by ignorance and commercial pressure on those with no spines.
Who says that I've 'written in' demanding an explanation? Not me - just assume that when a 7-day holiday is cut short by a significant margin as we finally got to our destination at 3am the following day, the operator would take it upon themselves as 'good practice' to follow-up the event with a factual and unpatronising explanation to ensure that the passenger has the full facts and clear understanding that EVERYTHING possible was done to ensure a speedy solution and not just the path of least resistance was taken...and would thereby consider flying with them again? Very easy communications exercise in these days of IT and data collection.
That's what my company does - it has it's faults - but bull**** and taking pax for granted are not 2 of them!
Can't believe you came out with the "would you rather fly on an unsafe aircraft" comment - priceless!
Please confirm that you are not connected with ensuring such flights run smoothely - otherwise the situation will never improve.
Sofia is a modern terminal (EU money?) so probably why passenger flow and security checks seemed smoother. Manchester has always been poor and latest 'improvements' only reduced 'experience' further.
My family and I had a great time on the slopes and sampled many new experiences. When I have saved up enough of my wages to go away again I just pray that Fernanjet is not in anyway involved so atleast the flight arrangements and experience have some chance of success!
don't get me wrong - Ryanscare have brand new aircraft but I still wouldn't fly with them!
Comment made as numerous reasons given my different members of the crewairport staff - underlining feeling that we were being fed a line or two?
One reason involved use of sub-leased aircraft that wasn't up to scratch so an aircraft had to be flown down from Glasgow. Fine, but this surely must have been known well before pax turned up at airport - poor service - sorry - just how I feel from other experiences. Return flight delayed 105-mins due to incorrect database/fms snag?
Fernanjet
Just appeared to be 'taken for a ride' - or not.
Would be interesting to learn how many technical issues this particular company runs with before one breaks the camels back - so to speak.
I'm aware how MELs are circumvented as I've had ground staff try and pressurise me to accept/ignore certain faults as captain of similiar sized aoc aircraft.
Read between the lines of CHIRP and you can tell it's a common practice caused by ignorance and commercial pressure on those with no spines.
Who says that I've 'written in' demanding an explanation? Not me - just assume that when a 7-day holiday is cut short by a significant margin as we finally got to our destination at 3am the following day, the operator would take it upon themselves as 'good practice' to follow-up the event with a factual and unpatronising explanation to ensure that the passenger has the full facts and clear understanding that EVERYTHING possible was done to ensure a speedy solution and not just the path of least resistance was taken...and would thereby consider flying with them again? Very easy communications exercise in these days of IT and data collection.
That's what my company does - it has it's faults - but bull**** and taking pax for granted are not 2 of them!
Can't believe you came out with the "would you rather fly on an unsafe aircraft" comment - priceless!
Please confirm that you are not connected with ensuring such flights run smoothely - otherwise the situation will never improve.
Sofia is a modern terminal (EU money?) so probably why passenger flow and security checks seemed smoother. Manchester has always been poor and latest 'improvements' only reduced 'experience' further.
My family and I had a great time on the slopes and sampled many new experiences. When I have saved up enough of my wages to go away again I just pray that Fernanjet is not in anyway involved so atleast the flight arrangements and experience have some chance of success!
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JulieAndrews
As a current TCX Captain, perhaps I could answer soem of the points you raise in a slightly more balanced (perhaps less caustic) way than Fernanjet. Although I do understand what he was trying to say.
Regarding our ability to dispatch flights on time. Our average OTP is around the 85% mark. This winter that has been affected by anything from snow to having steps ploughed into the side of aircraft. The impact on the programme cannot be underestimated. As an example, TCX managed throughout the whole of the recent snow without cancelling any flights albeit with some delays. EZY/RYR cancelled hundreds.
Since I was not operating your flight, I am unable to comment on the particular circumstances. HOWEVER, I would be very surprised if you were 'fed a line' at Manchester. It is our policy and those of our ground agents to be as clear and accurate as we can be. BUT please bear in mind that if an aircraft is tech, the juggling that goes on is major. The solution can change several times in just a couple of minutes. Therefore it can seem to some that they have not been given the full story. Once you are on board, I would never lie. I will ask what thay have already been told and try to add more detail to this.
Regarding our fleet being 'fit for purpose'. Our fleet is no older than any other charter operators. All aircraft are maintained to just about the highest standards of any UK operator. We ONLY carry acceptable deferred defects. And regarding the MEL, if it says NO GO, then we don't go. Simples. This is backed up from the very top downwards. As a Captain, I would not take an aircraft anywhere illegally.
Regarding your baggage limits. The reason that EZY/RYR have taken away bag limits is to try to push people into not placing items in the hold. It costs them money. Since most of our pax are not going on a short euro break, they generally travel with the kitchen sink. They do not pay to place items into the hold, it is included in their ticket. To be absolutely frank, I bet very few have ever looked at the overhaed bins and seen the weight limit sticker. If 5 pax had bags weighing 20kgs each, then theoretically they could bust the weight limit. There is also the question about practicality of large pieces of luggage in the cabin.
Paxboy makes salient comments indeed. Yes as a company we are still going strong after 170 years and the constant chipping away by the Lo-Co's.
I cannot comment about your airport experiences, aside to say that just about anywhere in the world is easier to get through than a UK airport. And that stands for crew as well as pax - perhaps you could contact your MP
I'm actually really sorry that your experience with us wasn't as good as it could have been. I still think that most of what you describe is more a run of bad luck than a company conspiring against you.
As a current TCX Captain, perhaps I could answer soem of the points you raise in a slightly more balanced (perhaps less caustic) way than Fernanjet. Although I do understand what he was trying to say.
Regarding our ability to dispatch flights on time. Our average OTP is around the 85% mark. This winter that has been affected by anything from snow to having steps ploughed into the side of aircraft. The impact on the programme cannot be underestimated. As an example, TCX managed throughout the whole of the recent snow without cancelling any flights albeit with some delays. EZY/RYR cancelled hundreds.
Since I was not operating your flight, I am unable to comment on the particular circumstances. HOWEVER, I would be very surprised if you were 'fed a line' at Manchester. It is our policy and those of our ground agents to be as clear and accurate as we can be. BUT please bear in mind that if an aircraft is tech, the juggling that goes on is major. The solution can change several times in just a couple of minutes. Therefore it can seem to some that they have not been given the full story. Once you are on board, I would never lie. I will ask what thay have already been told and try to add more detail to this.
Regarding our fleet being 'fit for purpose'. Our fleet is no older than any other charter operators. All aircraft are maintained to just about the highest standards of any UK operator. We ONLY carry acceptable deferred defects. And regarding the MEL, if it says NO GO, then we don't go. Simples. This is backed up from the very top downwards. As a Captain, I would not take an aircraft anywhere illegally.
Regarding your baggage limits. The reason that EZY/RYR have taken away bag limits is to try to push people into not placing items in the hold. It costs them money. Since most of our pax are not going on a short euro break, they generally travel with the kitchen sink. They do not pay to place items into the hold, it is included in their ticket. To be absolutely frank, I bet very few have ever looked at the overhaed bins and seen the weight limit sticker. If 5 pax had bags weighing 20kgs each, then theoretically they could bust the weight limit. There is also the question about practicality of large pieces of luggage in the cabin.
Paxboy makes salient comments indeed. Yes as a company we are still going strong after 170 years and the constant chipping away by the Lo-Co's.
I cannot comment about your airport experiences, aside to say that just about anywhere in the world is easier to get through than a UK airport. And that stands for crew as well as pax - perhaps you could contact your MP
I'm actually really sorry that your experience with us wasn't as good as it could have been. I still think that most of what you describe is more a run of bad luck than a company conspiring against you.
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I think that what flyinthesky has given is what most airline staff would always try and do and that is to be honest and informative.
Unfortunately there will always be some people within the operation that aren't as interested in the situation or their job.
If i ever had one experience that i could make come true for many people and that would for everyone to spend just 2 weeks at the airport or in the operations room and you will see how quickly information, aircraft and crew variables can change. I think most people would not believe what goes on behind the scenes, i know i didn't until i had to do it myself.
Having worked on both sides of the fence, and this is no lie, my mobile use to be like the BT exchange, quite often with call waiting contsantly flashing. I was lucky to have one of the best teams around me and i don't think my passengers where ever misled when i was on shift, if it meant i was still there dealing with it 16hrs later, then so be it but so many people these days are like " my shift has finnished, leave it for the others".
Your experience, whilst not the best, is of no different to any other carriers and believe me, although still young (30) i could tell stories that would probably make you never want to fly again.
Unfortunately there will always be some people within the operation that aren't as interested in the situation or their job.
If i ever had one experience that i could make come true for many people and that would for everyone to spend just 2 weeks at the airport or in the operations room and you will see how quickly information, aircraft and crew variables can change. I think most people would not believe what goes on behind the scenes, i know i didn't until i had to do it myself.
Having worked on both sides of the fence, and this is no lie, my mobile use to be like the BT exchange, quite often with call waiting contsantly flashing. I was lucky to have one of the best teams around me and i don't think my passengers where ever misled when i was on shift, if it meant i was still there dealing with it 16hrs later, then so be it but so many people these days are like " my shift has finnished, leave it for the others".
Your experience, whilst not the best, is of no different to any other carriers and believe me, although still young (30) i could tell stories that would probably make you never want to fly again.
Paxing All Over The World
Fine and measured words from flyinthesky. Sorry if I sounded rather apocalyptic, fits(?!) I'm glad that your operation has the confidence to work to the MEL. One of the reasons I don't take package trips is that I don't have children and that changes a lot of things. However, your words encourage me, should I find the TC Grp operating a route I need to use.
I don't know who Fernanjet is (profile gives no information other than location) but your response did seem rather over the top.Your statement:
is true, no one should have to put up with your comments.
I don't know who Fernanjet is (profile gives no information other than location) but your response did seem rather over the top.Your statement:
neither do people deserve to have to put up with your comments....
Flyinthesky
Didn't expect anything else although do think TC are one of the better Charter Airlines - I guess I'm really unlucky as every single one of my TC flights has failed to depart ontime through knock-on effect of 'tech' problems.
Fully appreciate what happens when aircraft goes 'tech' as usually involved in rectifying situation personally for own company - no names as this is not a case of 'we're better than you are' - different ballgame.
Never said I had a problem with baggage allowance. Cabin staff were great.
5Z4 - love flying - that's why I do it for a living - would not expect an unsafe aircraft to be within a million miles of a fare-paying customer. Another great comment from someone who probably believes flying is a luxury and you should be grateful for what you get.
Sit down, strap in and shut-up is probably your motto?
Mod
Continually surprised that aviation industry still harbours people like Fernanet - not surprised industry finds it difficult to improve in certain areas of customer service.
Admit my comments had an 'broad brush' element to them but as I've said before, never been on a TC flight that has departed on time
Didn't expect anything else although do think TC are one of the better Charter Airlines - I guess I'm really unlucky as every single one of my TC flights has failed to depart ontime through knock-on effect of 'tech' problems.
Fully appreciate what happens when aircraft goes 'tech' as usually involved in rectifying situation personally for own company - no names as this is not a case of 'we're better than you are' - different ballgame.
Never said I had a problem with baggage allowance. Cabin staff were great.
5Z4 - love flying - that's why I do it for a living - would not expect an unsafe aircraft to be within a million miles of a fare-paying customer. Another great comment from someone who probably believes flying is a luxury and you should be grateful for what you get.
Sit down, strap in and shut-up is probably your motto?
Mod
Continually surprised that aviation industry still harbours people like Fernanet - not surprised industry finds it difficult to improve in certain areas of customer service.
Admit my comments had an 'broad brush' element to them but as I've said before, never been on a TC flight that has departed on time
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Originally Posted by JulieAndrews
Continually surprised that aviation industry still harbours people like Fernanet
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Baggage Limits
I think flyinthesky is being a little dinisgenuous when he say that TC include a baggage alowance in the ticket price! They do but it is 5 kg les than most other airlines and it thus costs extra to take the 20kg allowed by other airlines.
There shouldn't be a problem with large items of hand luggage as there are strict size limits which should be applied at check-in or the gate. 5kg hand luggage allowance is just silly.
There shouldn't be a problem with large items of hand luggage as there are strict size limits which should be applied at check-in or the gate. 5kg hand luggage allowance is just silly.
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So A2QFI, you think I am being disingenuous!
A quick trawl amongst other charter operators will show that if you book a package holiday, your INCLUDED baggage allowance is the same. You only pay for excess. Just the same as Thomson. Indeed on Thomson, your cabin baggage limit is 5kg. Exactly the same as TCX. Since standard weights are used on the loadsheet which assumes a notional baggage weight, then why should a company ot ask someone to pay excess charges. We have to provide the fuel to carry it. Other companies may price differently, that is dependant on their business model. I guess you pay your money and takes your choice.
Indeed there shouldn't be a problem with the size of hand luggage, it is the weight that is the problem. Since hold baggage is included in the ticket price unlike EZY/RYR there should be no need to carry heavy items into the cabin. As I said, have many passengers ever thought to look at the weight limit placards on each overhead bin. If all passengers took more than the 5kgs, it could bust that limit.
TCX are no different to MON/TOM. If you want to take all your luggage into the cabin then I suggest you use a Lo-Co as they may be better suited to your preferred method of travel. We sell very little seat only, hence my comment about most of our pax needing hold baggage and travelling with the kitchen sink.
A quick trawl amongst other charter operators will show that if you book a package holiday, your INCLUDED baggage allowance is the same. You only pay for excess. Just the same as Thomson. Indeed on Thomson, your cabin baggage limit is 5kg. Exactly the same as TCX. Since standard weights are used on the loadsheet which assumes a notional baggage weight, then why should a company ot ask someone to pay excess charges. We have to provide the fuel to carry it. Other companies may price differently, that is dependant on their business model. I guess you pay your money and takes your choice.
Indeed there shouldn't be a problem with the size of hand luggage, it is the weight that is the problem. Since hold baggage is included in the ticket price unlike EZY/RYR there should be no need to carry heavy items into the cabin. As I said, have many passengers ever thought to look at the weight limit placards on each overhead bin. If all passengers took more than the 5kgs, it could bust that limit.
TCX are no different to MON/TOM. If you want to take all your luggage into the cabin then I suggest you use a Lo-Co as they may be better suited to your preferred method of travel. We sell very little seat only, hence my comment about most of our pax needing hold baggage and travelling with the kitchen sink.
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I flew Monarch to Lanzarote and got
Baggage
Hand luggage: one item, not exceeding dimensions of 56 x 45 x 25cm or weighing more than 10kg.
Checked: maximum weight for bags is 20kg.
Excess: is charged at £5 per kg for short-haul flights and £7 per kg for long-haul flights. No bag is permitted that weighs more than 32kg.
Perhaps I was scheduled and not chartered?
If a load sheet assumes a notional baggage weight how does it cope with the over the notional weight passengers?
Baggage
Hand luggage: one item, not exceeding dimensions of 56 x 45 x 25cm or weighing more than 10kg.
Checked: maximum weight for bags is 20kg.
Excess: is charged at £5 per kg for short-haul flights and £7 per kg for long-haul flights. No bag is permitted that weighs more than 32kg.
Perhaps I was scheduled and not chartered?
If a load sheet assumes a notional baggage weight how does it cope with the over the notional weight passengers?
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Seems to me that the charter airlines are now better then the legacy scheduled rabble. Suppose they tend to work in a more competive environment so have more incentive to deliver what the punter wants and the staff realise this and tend to be more flexible, shall I say. An excellent civil and informative response from flyinthesky.
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A2QFI
I would rather not get into a tit for tat discussion but if you check the FAQ section on Monarch's own website, you will find that the baggage limitations for charter booking with a MON flight code are 20kgs which INCLUDES the 5kg of hand baggage. Therefore they are exactly as ourselves and TOM.
You will find most charter operators sing from the same hymn sheet. The only difference would be for a scheduled booking with Monarch (flight code ZB) This has a separately payable baggage charge.
The 32kg limit is the same anywhere in the UK and relates to 'elf and safety for the handlers. It is not able to be varied.
As for the loadsheet, well using standard notional weights speeds things up and is entirley legal. Whether it is accurate given the size of some folks is a constant source of amusement. But until the CAA see fit to change the rules it will remain.
All I will say is that being especially nice to our check in staff can sometimes work wonders!!!!!
I would rather not get into a tit for tat discussion but if you check the FAQ section on Monarch's own website, you will find that the baggage limitations for charter booking with a MON flight code are 20kgs which INCLUDES the 5kg of hand baggage. Therefore they are exactly as ourselves and TOM.
baggage - baggage charges & allowances - charter flights - flight numbers starting MON
Hold baggage
Hold baggage
- Each adult or child receives a hold baggage allowance. Hold baggage charges may apply with some tour operators - passengers will be advised of any applicable baggage charges when making a booking.
- The hold baggage weight limit is normally 20kg including the 5kg hand baggage allowance.
The 32kg limit is the same anywhere in the UK and relates to 'elf and safety for the handlers. It is not able to be varied.
As for the loadsheet, well using standard notional weights speeds things up and is entirley legal. Whether it is accurate given the size of some folks is a constant source of amusement. But until the CAA see fit to change the rules it will remain.
All I will say is that being especially nice to our check in staff can sometimes work wonders!!!!!