T5 - Conformance ( a rant)
Join Date: Jun 2008
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You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink! Just because folks are held in a 'shopping' area doesn't mean they'll buy anything
I very rarely buy anything at an airport despite being offered so many 'great' deals.
I always aim to arrive at any airport at least 2 hours before departure, the aim is to be walking through the main entrance no less than 1hr 15mins before departure whether I'm using a check-in desk or not. In 30 years of travelling I have only ever missed one flight due to the motorway route being backed-up for miles (peak use time), I learnt my lesson and now use an alternative route, A & B roads, if I travel during that peak usage period.
'Runners' used to be common place years ago indeed I remember easyJet even had a 'Runners' boarding card which worked rather well for those who turned up late (if you could make it to the gate before the aircraft doors were closed you could get on) but it was withdrwan when easyJet realised it was being abused by 'important' businessmen! Since the introduction of additional security requirements, the sheer increase in volume of people travelling and the increase in distances in many airports 'running' a passenger has quietly been abandoned as it should be.
Arriving anywhere for any flight in LHR at STD -30 is being unrealistic, jeez even Linford Christie would be hard pushed to cover the distances and hurdles involved in that time
Better Time Management required
I very rarely buy anything at an airport despite being offered so many 'great' deals.I always aim to arrive at any airport at least 2 hours before departure, the aim is to be walking through the main entrance no less than 1hr 15mins before departure whether I'm using a check-in desk or not. In 30 years of travelling I have only ever missed one flight due to the motorway route being backed-up for miles (peak use time), I learnt my lesson and now use an alternative route, A & B roads, if I travel during that peak usage period.
'Runners' used to be common place years ago indeed I remember easyJet even had a 'Runners' boarding card which worked rather well for those who turned up late (if you could make it to the gate before the aircraft doors were closed you could get on) but it was withdrwan when easyJet realised it was being abused by 'important' businessmen! Since the introduction of additional security requirements, the sheer increase in volume of people travelling and the increase in distances in many airports 'running' a passenger has quietly been abandoned as it should be.
Arriving anywhere for any flight in LHR at STD -30 is being unrealistic, jeez even Linford Christie would be hard pushed to cover the distances and hurdles involved in that time
Better Time Management required
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Although the latest bmi wheeze is they're replacing more and more LHR routes with E-135/145s now, so I hope you don't mind cramped spaces..
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Narita airport last September. Due to a complete foul up on getting the right train to airport(my fault) I arrived 17 minutes before flight due depart. Expecting to be issued a ticket for next day at best, instead found myself in my seat on the plane with 11 minutes still to go.
More remarkeable, my luggage made it too.
More remarkeable, my luggage made it too.
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Munny,
I'm glad you've decided to try BMI. At least my colleagues didn't have to deal with such a ranting passenger. Your posts sounds like a child having a tantrum. Grow up, follow the rules because they apply to you too. If you don't want to follow the rules, take the train or bus instead, or do the whole country a favour and drive
Gg
I'm glad you've decided to try BMI. At least my colleagues didn't have to deal with such a ranting passenger. Your posts sounds like a child having a tantrum. Grow up, follow the rules because they apply to you too. If you don't want to follow the rules, take the train or bus instead, or do the whole country a favour and drive
Gg
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It's up to you who you travel with. If you don't like the conformance just fly bmi. Although the latest bmi wheeze is they're replacing more and more LHR routes with E-135/145s now, so I hope you don't mind cramped spaces...
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F3G,
The reason I posted what I posted was because I thought this chap's ranting was so ott. No doubt would he (sorry if I got the gender wrong) have taken his frustrations out on ground staff and cabin crew, even though he was in the wrong for not reading the information on his booking. I've had a fair few pax like him on board through the years and there is no reasoning with this kind of person. You end up spending the whole flight trying to please them, make them feel better and get nothing but "abuse" in return.
Yes, we do need passengers, but it doesn't mean we have to put up with unreasonable behaviour. Nothing to do with my attitude towards customer service.
Gg
The reason I posted what I posted was because I thought this chap's ranting was so ott. No doubt would he (sorry if I got the gender wrong) have taken his frustrations out on ground staff and cabin crew, even though he was in the wrong for not reading the information on his booking. I've had a fair few pax like him on board through the years and there is no reasoning with this kind of person. You end up spending the whole flight trying to please them, make them feel better and get nothing but "abuse" in return.
Yes, we do need passengers, but it doesn't mean we have to put up with unreasonable behaviour. Nothing to do with my attitude towards customer service.
Gg
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Humble pie
Sorry guys, but I'm going to have to apologise to BA.
I've just had a response to my complaint. A full refund and 4500 BA miles as a sorry. No explanation other an error on their part! Ooops!
Should I ask for more?
If it was because someone at BA has been reading this thread - thanks,
you are human.
I still don't agree with conformance!
I've just had a response to my complaint. A full refund and 4500 BA miles as a sorry. No explanation other an error on their part! Ooops!
Should I ask for more?
If it was because someone at BA has been reading this thread - thanks,
you are human.
I still don't agree with conformance!
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Yes, we do need passengers, but it doesn't mean we have to put up with unreasonable behaviour.
Me, I'll take the unreasonable clients so long as they pay in a recession, I have the professional skills to deal with them, even if it is tiresome.
This makes grim reading 'Sick' aviation industry on a flight path to $4.7bn losses, warns IATA - Telegraph
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I am missing something here? You don't make the deadline to get into the lounge and they apologise to you and give you a pile of miles?
Did you forget to mention something?
Did you forget to mention something?
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35 mins is enough for regular travellers, but for some people it is not. So having 35 mins notice to offload someones bags etc from a flight rather than finding out 10 mins before departure helps the flight go on time.
Hence BA has some very good punctuality figures from T5 which in turn is a benefit to the regulars as they are hanging around less for those that can't get from security to the gate in 35 mins.
Hence BA has some very good punctuality figures from T5 which in turn is a benefit to the regulars as they are hanging around less for those that can't get from security to the gate in 35 mins.
Pilot of the Airwaves
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Would help if the 74x series of buses to T5 from Central bus station, were made to run to their timetable, instead of the adhoc basis a that appears to be the norm at the mo. It is easy to lose 30 minutes or more waiting for one at present.
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I have no more detail but did question whether they were a bit previuos in offloading me given that even by the time I got to the desk I was only 2 minutes after the cut off. My inbound flight was overbooked that morning and they were looking for volunteers at £100/head so I do wonder if I had been axed before 1855?
If so, coupled with the fact that I may still qualify as a commercially important passenger, this might explain what is a very welcome U-turn.
I have learnt enough never to look a gift horse etc.
If I ever do fly via T5B I will be careful to avoid this nonsense again but I think, for me LCY will remain my preferred London Gateway.
If so, coupled with the fact that I may still qualify as a commercially important passenger, this might explain what is a very welcome U-turn.
I have learnt enough never to look a gift horse etc.
If I ever do fly via T5B I will be careful to avoid this nonsense again but I think, for me LCY will remain my preferred London Gateway.
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So having 35 mins notice to offload someones bags etc from a flight rather than finding out 10 mins before departure helps the flight go on time.
Can I just clarify one point. I was on a short domestic route. The turnaround time at Heathrow is prossibly only 30minutes anyway(?) I had virtually no hand baggage and, bearing in mind I was already checked in with 0 bags and that check in closes 45 before departure, the system can see that there would be no question of bags being offloaded.
Knowing that there were no bags checked in would and should allow some leeway on the 35 min cut off. If I am correct about turnaround it would seem that there could be NO bags actually loaded by 35 pre departure and so they would be offloaded not from the A/c but from the baggage hall. Now, I don't want to start another string here about BA and baggage but...
This information that is available to load controllers and customer services pre flight for each passenger. Had I been on a transfer with baggage then the risk that I would delay the aircraft due to late arrival might be high. Indeed, on the few occasions that I have seen baggage being offloaded it is usually due to transfer pax being lost.
I have accepted culpability for not reading the information carefully enough and will not make this error again. However, it still strikes me that 35 minutes pre departure is quite a long time for a short flight if there are no bags to deal with. But, it is what it is and it won't be changing just becuase it doesn't suit me!
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The problem with BA (and with Britain in general) is that there is no discretion any more. You have to comply with the minutae of the rules whether they make sense or not. No one is willing to bend them to make life more pleasant.
Why should I show loyalty to a service provider who processes me, rather than treats me as a human being?
T5 and BA are classic examples of a process focused rather than customer focused operation.
Why should I show loyalty to a service provider who processes me, rather than treats me as a human being?
T5 and BA are classic examples of a process focused rather than customer focused operation.
Pilot of the Airwaves
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Yes....you are spot on.
Mrs IB is very happy that AGP flights are to transfer to T3.
Getting to T5 by public transport, except by rail from central London is one big nightmare.
Mrs IB is very happy that AGP flights are to transfer to T3.
Getting to T5 by public transport, except by rail from central London is one big nightmare.
Last edited by IB4138; 25th Mar 2009 at 14:36.
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Well said SLF3B.
I had the misfortune to be one of the first pax to pass through T5 last year. What a chaotic shambles! The joke was that I know from an industry insider that they had been running trials for months before opening yet - BA couldn't get their staff to the right places at the right times because hadn't validated their passes or some such nonsense. Failed conformance?
I would avoid that place like a dose of the trots but I guess the Nigels are happy with their petty rules and regulations. Everyone classed and classified, pigeon holed into to their little system, so that they know where you are, where you're going and when and where you've been - but not a clue who you are. Process for profit.
A mate of mine used to be a beancounter for a chicken processor. His view was that there was actually no difference between running and airline and running his business - except the pax don't actually end wrapped in cling film in a refrigerator!
I have been no fan, and only a customer through necessity, of Blighty Airways since the Ayling era. Before then, I think BA had a deserved reputation but now, they have the same lame air about them as Aeroflot used to have ( actually, I've not flown with Aeroflop for some 10 years! and they might not have changed. ) Look at some of their smaller competitors Emirates and Virgin are two airlines that I think work hard to please the customer and benefit as a result. Are they as profitable per pax? I don't know but, I know where I spend my $.
Sad fact is that you will never convince a bean counter that the customer actually matters until they start voting with their feet. Look at Ryanair - Mr O leery is an absolute horror and the pax love it. If he told them that they would now need to pay double to get back from whichever remote airfield he has dumped them - even if they have a valid ticket - I bet that each and every one of them would be back the following week for the next unfeasibly cheap destination - even if they don't actually know where it is or want to go. The similarity with battery hens keeps coming back to me! Why is this? Is air travel addictive? Are all Ryanair customers submissive masochists? or, do they just like bargain? I suspect the latter - it's so cheap we have to go!
For as long as Ryanair and other predatory Budget beasts roam the earth the days of customer care will remain a thing of luxury. So why would anyone else provide frills if they don't need to?
Does anyone know if BA are more punctual than Ryanair?
I had the misfortune to be one of the first pax to pass through T5 last year. What a chaotic shambles! The joke was that I know from an industry insider that they had been running trials for months before opening yet - BA couldn't get their staff to the right places at the right times because hadn't validated their passes or some such nonsense. Failed conformance?
I would avoid that place like a dose of the trots but I guess the Nigels are happy with their petty rules and regulations. Everyone classed and classified, pigeon holed into to their little system, so that they know where you are, where you're going and when and where you've been - but not a clue who you are. Process for profit.
A mate of mine used to be a beancounter for a chicken processor. His view was that there was actually no difference between running and airline and running his business - except the pax don't actually end wrapped in cling film in a refrigerator!
I have been no fan, and only a customer through necessity, of Blighty Airways since the Ayling era. Before then, I think BA had a deserved reputation but now, they have the same lame air about them as Aeroflot used to have ( actually, I've not flown with Aeroflop for some 10 years! and they might not have changed. ) Look at some of their smaller competitors Emirates and Virgin are two airlines that I think work hard to please the customer and benefit as a result. Are they as profitable per pax? I don't know but, I know where I spend my $.
Sad fact is that you will never convince a bean counter that the customer actually matters until they start voting with their feet. Look at Ryanair - Mr O leery is an absolute horror and the pax love it. If he told them that they would now need to pay double to get back from whichever remote airfield he has dumped them - even if they have a valid ticket - I bet that each and every one of them would be back the following week for the next unfeasibly cheap destination - even if they don't actually know where it is or want to go. The similarity with battery hens keeps coming back to me! Why is this? Is air travel addictive? Are all Ryanair customers submissive masochists? or, do they just like bargain? I suspect the latter - it's so cheap we have to go!
For as long as Ryanair and other predatory Budget beasts roam the earth the days of customer care will remain a thing of luxury. So why would anyone else provide frills if they don't need to?
Does anyone know if BA are more punctual than Ryanair?
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Getting to T5 by public transport, except by rail from central London is one big nightmare.
If you're aiming to arrive during the rush hours, you're probably stuffed either way and then rail does look attractive, but it's not an option for me
Pilot of the Airwaves
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By PUBLIC TRANSPORT...not by car!
Try getting to T5 from the west by bus ...Slough, Uxbridge, Beaconsfield, Watford...etc. Whilst there are a few services that go to T5, they visit the central bus station first. A central bus station to T5 shuttle is required, run on a reliable, frequent, timetable.
Try getting to T5 from the west by bus ...Slough, Uxbridge, Beaconsfield, Watford...etc. Whilst there are a few services that go to T5, they visit the central bus station first. A central bus station to T5 shuttle is required, run on a reliable, frequent, timetable.