T5 - Conformance ( a rant)
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Why use the bus to get from the Central Area when the Tube runs that way too?
Munnyspinner I can't believe you have flown so much and think BA can do a 30 minute turn at Heathrow? The RJ100s at LCY are on a 35 minute turn, the 757s at GLA were 45 mins and I believe the rough time at LHR is about an hour.
Munnyspinner I can't believe you have flown so much and think BA can do a 30 minute turn at Heathrow? The RJ100s at LCY are on a 35 minute turn, the 757s at GLA were 45 mins and I believe the rough time at LHR is about an hour.
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Would help if the 74x series of buses to T5 from Central bus station, were made to run to their timetable, instead of the adhoc basis a that appears to be the norm at the mo. It is easy to lose 30 minutes or more waiting for one at present.
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Satisfied
Heathrow Director
I'm very satisfied thanks. I did get my money back and some freebies which I will use to avoid T5 in the future.
Its such a pity that the terminal is so stress inducing - when others aren't.
I'm very satisfied thanks. I did get my money back and some freebies which I will use to avoid T5 in the future.
Its such a pity that the terminal is so stress inducing - when others aren't.
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Perhaps I'm just thinking about all the time I used to spend at T1 watching late inbound A/C have failry speedy turnarounds. The RJs at LCY do turnaround pretty quickly and I assume you mean brakes on to brakes off when in fact my 30 was pax off to pax on.
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Flicking Banker
You must be a f**k Banker to be so anal about missing a flight when it was your own effing fault. Kinda follows doesn't it - you make a big cods of everything then get a pile of compensation! Any relation to Fred the invisible?
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I am no great fan of T5, its layout is appalling. But the conformance idea makes sense to me.
Too many times have I been on a plane that has been delayed whilst they try and track down the last passenger who is missing and then offload his luggage.
Who should suffer - the person who is late or the hundreds who made it on time?
As for discretion - in this case it is better to have a clear rule that everyone understands.
Too many times have I been on a plane that has been delayed whilst they try and track down the last passenger who is missing and then offload his luggage.
Who should suffer - the person who is late or the hundreds who made it on time?
As for discretion - in this case it is better to have a clear rule that everyone understands.
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Munnyspinner - was this one of the flights where you occupied a First/Business seat that you had not paid for, as you so discuss so frankly on the other thread in CC?
I'm curious: You mentioned your possible CIP status earlier. You really must be terribly important what with self appointed free upgrades and then refunds and freebies for your own errors - Frankly, I'm surprised that you don't have routine access to an executive jet, thereby avoiding all of these unpleasant restrictions?
I'm curious: You mentioned your possible CIP status earlier. You really must be terribly important what with self appointed free upgrades and then refunds and freebies for your own errors - Frankly, I'm surprised that you don't have routine access to an executive jet, thereby avoiding all of these unpleasant restrictions?
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Play the system
Sometimes you have to play the system!
I have never delayed a flight as I travel light.
If I am travelling on freebies (my money!) then any upgrade is a welcome addition to the trip. If I'm on business (earning freebies) then I am paying for the extras - hence CIP status. Either way it doesn't actually cost more to convey a first class pax or an empty seat in first compared to economy. More fool those that don't check!
Exec jet travel is convenient but not cost effective over very short distances - nor is it much quicker - unless you are flying through Heathrow!
I have never delayed a flight as I travel light.
If I am travelling on freebies (my money!) then any upgrade is a welcome addition to the trip. If I'm on business (earning freebies) then I am paying for the extras - hence CIP status. Either way it doesn't actually cost more to convey a first class pax or an empty seat in first compared to economy. More fool those that don't check!
Exec jet travel is convenient but not cost effective over very short distances - nor is it much quicker - unless you are flying through Heathrow!
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Either way it doesn't actually cost more to convey a first class pax or an empty seat in first compared to economy
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I used to work in travel booking business travellers on their trips.
It appears that moneyspinner conforms to type in this regard:
Travelling on business.
Thinks he is VERY important business man, the world will stop unless he gets to a meeting, has to have his exact seat preferance, why arent everybody falling over themselves to help him when he misses a flight due to his own stupidity, etc, etc...
Travelling on holiday.
Wont pay a penny of his own money - uses the points accumulated on his business trips.
For this reason I always tried to get the companies I dealt with to sign up to a loyalty program where the company was rewarded rather than the traveller.
Fly with who you want - just have a little concideration to all the hard working and organised people who manage to read the conditions and turn up on time, and the poor souls who are just trying to do their jobs while working in sometimes difficult conditions both in the airport and in the air.
It appears that moneyspinner conforms to type in this regard:
Travelling on business.
Thinks he is VERY important business man, the world will stop unless he gets to a meeting, has to have his exact seat preferance, why arent everybody falling over themselves to help him when he misses a flight due to his own stupidity, etc, etc...
Travelling on holiday.
Wont pay a penny of his own money - uses the points accumulated on his business trips.
For this reason I always tried to get the companies I dealt with to sign up to a loyalty program where the company was rewarded rather than the traveller.
Fly with who you want - just have a little concideration to all the hard working and organised people who manage to read the conditions and turn up on time, and the poor souls who are just trying to do their jobs while working in sometimes difficult conditions both in the airport and in the air.
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If everyone is travelling in the same aluminum tube why does seat 4a , in front of the curtain COST any more to fly than seat 5a, behind the curtain. It does not. However, It does generate a higher potential return.
If the seat is unoccupied the revenue is zero. If a passenger who has paid for a seat, but not a premium seat, occupies seat 4a then the revenue to the airlinefor the flight is the same. Seat 4a was empty and was therefore not revenue generating. There is no lost opportunity cost as, by the time the flight is loaded, all occupied seats are sold. If a seat is vacant its revenue generating potential is lost and its failure to be occupied has already 'cost' the airline money to move the empty seat from A to B.
Where pax migrate from economy to premium, the number of passengers remains the same, any food consumed was already on board and would have been wasted ( or consumed by CC) and therefore the operational cost ( A/C costs, fuel, staff and associated costs) are the same ( assuming flight catering doesn't refund for unused, out of date meals ( they might sell them to BA!)
Freeloading by self upgrade doesn't actually cost the airline directly unless there are valuable additional services provided - the seats are vacant and are therefore not revenue generating. Indeed, such behaviour is only possible where CC are expecting numbers in premium class which tally with actuals on the flight. Equally, as they get a manifest for each flight they know, or should know, where everyone is sitting or should be sitting.
So Tightshot and others should perhaps be a little less self righteous - when in fact he/she is only drawing attention to the ineptitude, complacency or conspiracy of CC colleagues.
In microeconomic terms I would suggest the following as a means to address this 'problem' - auction.
After boarding, simply auction the premium class seats that remain unoccupied and for which services( food, drinks, complimentary ego massage etc.) are available. Sell to the highest bidder and generate additional revenue from the flight. You will appreciate why airlines don't actually do this - it would only demonstrate to those that have already paid a premium that they had most probably wasted their money and they would be very unlikley to repeat the exercise.
I have been in the front and in the back and to be honest -on short haul it pretty much the same wherever you sit. Long haul - now that is different!
If the seat is unoccupied the revenue is zero. If a passenger who has paid for a seat, but not a premium seat, occupies seat 4a then the revenue to the airlinefor the flight is the same. Seat 4a was empty and was therefore not revenue generating. There is no lost opportunity cost as, by the time the flight is loaded, all occupied seats are sold. If a seat is vacant its revenue generating potential is lost and its failure to be occupied has already 'cost' the airline money to move the empty seat from A to B.
Where pax migrate from economy to premium, the number of passengers remains the same, any food consumed was already on board and would have been wasted ( or consumed by CC) and therefore the operational cost ( A/C costs, fuel, staff and associated costs) are the same ( assuming flight catering doesn't refund for unused, out of date meals ( they might sell them to BA!)
Freeloading by self upgrade doesn't actually cost the airline directly unless there are valuable additional services provided - the seats are vacant and are therefore not revenue generating. Indeed, such behaviour is only possible where CC are expecting numbers in premium class which tally with actuals on the flight. Equally, as they get a manifest for each flight they know, or should know, where everyone is sitting or should be sitting.
So Tightshot and others should perhaps be a little less self righteous - when in fact he/she is only drawing attention to the ineptitude, complacency or conspiracy of CC colleagues.
In microeconomic terms I would suggest the following as a means to address this 'problem' - auction.
After boarding, simply auction the premium class seats that remain unoccupied and for which services( food, drinks, complimentary ego massage etc.) are available. Sell to the highest bidder and generate additional revenue from the flight. You will appreciate why airlines don't actually do this - it would only demonstrate to those that have already paid a premium that they had most probably wasted their money and they would be very unlikley to repeat the exercise.
I have been in the front and in the back and to be honest -on short haul it pretty much the same wherever you sit. Long haul - now that is different!
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Cant believe that you actually admit its wrong - but continue anyway.
Would you also stay in a hotel without paying - if the room was empty, I guess you see no reason why not - same logic that you used earlier - empty room / empty aircraft seat - same differance right?
You must be a real pleasure to work for.
Would you also stay in a hotel without paying - if the room was empty, I guess you see no reason why not - same logic that you used earlier - empty room / empty aircraft seat - same differance right?
You must be a real pleasure to work for.
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Grounded SLF
On the other hand, a large European airline once sold me a business class seat, with the advertised promise that 'we always keep the centre seat free', then didn't and refused a refund.
Reading the frequent flyer forum for that airline, this apparently happens quite regularly.
So, the airline world is not without sin, in the respect of freeloading, either.
On the other hand, a large European airline once sold me a business class seat, with the advertised promise that 'we always keep the centre seat free', then didn't and refused a refund.
Reading the frequent flyer forum for that airline, this apparently happens quite regularly.
So, the airline world is not without sin, in the respect of freeloading, either.
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F3G - Surely, you can thereby use anything to justify anything, on that basis? The two episodes are essentially unrelated. I could, in theory, demand the use of the First Class Lounge because the airline had lost my bag on a previous flight, or failed to provide a vegetarian meal, or had not honored my seat request. The airline might choose to offer those facilities to me by way of apology, but I would have no right to take them.
There is no suggestion made by any sensible person that any airline is without sin - far from it! However, linkage cannot be assigned to unrelated events as a means to justify dishonest behavior. Munnyspinner's behavior is identical to that of a cheap and common little thief, as detained by the dozen on any Saturday morning High Street sweep - he simply has sufficient education to attempt to cloud matters with pseudo-legal BS and an inflated sense of self-worth that allows him to believe that compliance is for lesser people. The most fascinating aspect, is the arrogance that permits his (it cannot surely be a female) continued posting on the subject with neither remorse nor the remotest understanding of how his character might be perceived - not only here, but in the Cabin Crew forum as well. I have to assume, with such a cocktail of character traits that he is a politician?
There is no suggestion made by any sensible person that any airline is without sin - far from it! However, linkage cannot be assigned to unrelated events as a means to justify dishonest behavior. Munnyspinner's behavior is identical to that of a cheap and common little thief, as detained by the dozen on any Saturday morning High Street sweep - he simply has sufficient education to attempt to cloud matters with pseudo-legal BS and an inflated sense of self-worth that allows him to believe that compliance is for lesser people. The most fascinating aspect, is the arrogance that permits his (it cannot surely be a female) continued posting on the subject with neither remorse nor the remotest understanding of how his character might be perceived - not only here, but in the Cabin Crew forum as well. I have to assume, with such a cocktail of character traits that he is a politician?
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Tightslot
Firstly, I am not justifying anyone's behaviour.
But how would you describe an airline who advertise and charge for a premium service, supply a different and inferior service and then walk away?
The common thread, to my mind, is that a payment made for a class of travel should purchase that class of travel, as described.
If Munnyspinner is wrong, then so is the airline who cheated me.
Firstly, I am not justifying anyone's behaviour.
But how would you describe an airline who advertise and charge for a premium service, supply a different and inferior service and then walk away?
The common thread, to my mind, is that a payment made for a class of travel should purchase that class of travel, as described.
If Munnyspinner is wrong, then so is the airline who cheated me.
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Tightslot,
I see the CC thread has been closed but I think the last post ( we wish) from Munnyspinner did concede that sitting in a business class seat without the correct ticket would constitute fraud ( his words). I think that is an admission of guilt and his first posting on that forum did start with a confession.
I can see that he/she has stirred up a bit of a hornets nest but I think it has also raised some pretty good points.
I think the LCC's have changed the face of travel. Single class, low cost quick turnaround no frills - some would say the best thing since cheap sliced white bread. May be they have a point. If by the addition of a curtain some airlines decree that the seats are more valuable, where there is in fact little or no tangible difference, should we be surprised that one or two people want to challenge this?
I am one of the average punters who travels as frequently as money will allow but cannot afford the luxury of first or business class. I have had the priviledge of sitting next to the curtain on a couple of occasions and cannot see why there is any 'premium' attached to short haul ( less than 3 hours) flights.
Flying with BA to Madrid from Manchester ( actually it may have been a GB codeshare) I arrived into MAN on a BAe146 and left on an identical aircraft. On the first flight I sat in row 2 which was domestic and there curtain was stowed. The second flight was international and it was just behind the curtain in row 5 or 6.As far as I could see there was no difference in seat pitch. Neither flight was full and the middle seat was unoccupied next to me on both legs. As far as I could see the only difference between my flight and for those in business was a meal served in two parts. I expect their cost was twice what I paid ( perhaps more).
If I sound like the boy who says the emperor ain't wearing no strides then I think this is exactly what I am saying. Small wonder, if there is little or no product differentiation that some people will simply feel that it's right to take without asking - this doesn't make it right, just understandable!
I read Munnyspinners post with some puzzlement, is he/she correct no-one has been prosecuted for this. Shops generally have a zero tolerance approach to sholifting surely its time airlines did the same?
Should CC not check seating arrangements as A/C trim could be affected if people sit in blocked out seats - is this not true?
I see the CC thread has been closed but I think the last post ( we wish) from Munnyspinner did concede that sitting in a business class seat without the correct ticket would constitute fraud ( his words). I think that is an admission of guilt and his first posting on that forum did start with a confession.
I can see that he/she has stirred up a bit of a hornets nest but I think it has also raised some pretty good points.
I think the LCC's have changed the face of travel. Single class, low cost quick turnaround no frills - some would say the best thing since cheap sliced white bread. May be they have a point. If by the addition of a curtain some airlines decree that the seats are more valuable, where there is in fact little or no tangible difference, should we be surprised that one or two people want to challenge this?
I am one of the average punters who travels as frequently as money will allow but cannot afford the luxury of first or business class. I have had the priviledge of sitting next to the curtain on a couple of occasions and cannot see why there is any 'premium' attached to short haul ( less than 3 hours) flights.
Flying with BA to Madrid from Manchester ( actually it may have been a GB codeshare) I arrived into MAN on a BAe146 and left on an identical aircraft. On the first flight I sat in row 2 which was domestic and there curtain was stowed. The second flight was international and it was just behind the curtain in row 5 or 6.As far as I could see there was no difference in seat pitch. Neither flight was full and the middle seat was unoccupied next to me on both legs. As far as I could see the only difference between my flight and for those in business was a meal served in two parts. I expect their cost was twice what I paid ( perhaps more).
If I sound like the boy who says the emperor ain't wearing no strides then I think this is exactly what I am saying. Small wonder, if there is little or no product differentiation that some people will simply feel that it's right to take without asking - this doesn't make it right, just understandable!
I read Munnyspinners post with some puzzlement, is he/she correct no-one has been prosecuted for this. Shops generally have a zero tolerance approach to sholifting surely its time airlines did the same?
Should CC not check seating arrangements as A/C trim could be affected if people sit in blocked out seats - is this not true?