Uk Airport Chaos (hand wringing thread)
Well said LD Max... Unfortunately the badguys will win this one on the economic front, the punters will stay away and my livelyhood is now in jeopardy. It is idiotic the food, drink and laptop ban and I bet that in two or three weeks,when the hysteria is over these restrictions will be eased.
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Maybe not, the tone of that particular statement compared to the rest of the post (except expelling people to the Falklands) is quite different and I assumed, maybe uncorrectly, that those reading it may be able to distinguish.
I'm guessing you don't agree with my proposition. Maybe I should have rephrased as 'more liberal and human rights focused members of our society'? However it could also be argued that its in the same vein as calling a binman a refuse engineering technican.
That is fair enough, however I would be interested in other alternatives to this problem that will act as a deterrent to what ultimately affects our current or future careers as pilots.
An invasion of Wycome by the 3rd Bat. of the Para's is not an option.
I'm guessing you don't agree with my proposition. Maybe I should have rephrased as 'more liberal and human rights focused members of our society'? However it could also be argued that its in the same vein as calling a binman a refuse engineering technican.
That is fair enough, however I would be interested in other alternatives to this problem that will act as a deterrent to what ultimately affects our current or future careers as pilots.
An invasion of Wycome by the 3rd Bat. of the Para's is not an option.
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Originally Posted by NG_Kaptain
Well said LD Max... Unfortunately the badguys will win this one on the economic front, the punters will stay away and my livelyhood is now in jeopardy. It is idiotic the food, drink and laptop ban and I bet that in two or three weeks,when the hysteria is over these restrictions will be eased.
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A picture is worth a thousand words...
Assuming it is all true, how is this going to stop the baddies
Perhaps Granny is in on the plot, too, or that whale behind her is stuffed with plastique...
A repeat of the knee-jerk post-911 reaction that apparently accomplished exactly nothing?
No, I don't know what else to do but it seems a damn sad day AGAIN for the world...
Perhaps Granny is in on the plot, too, or that whale behind her is stuffed with plastique...
A repeat of the knee-jerk post-911 reaction that apparently accomplished exactly nothing?
No, I don't know what else to do but it seems a damn sad day AGAIN for the world...
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Originally Posted by DISCOKID
Well the no hand luggage is a fabulous idea - once people get the message security will speed up significantly and not only that loading of planes will be much quicker too - no more waiting while people try to squeeze blatantly oversized bags into the overhead lockers.
LDMAX - the reason for not allowing coke or water is that you would then be delayed even more while every single person with any sort of bottle had to open it and drink some.
LDMAX - the reason for not allowing coke or water is that you would then be delayed even more while every single person with any sort of bottle had to open it and drink some.
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Years ago athletes wishing to avoid drug tests were using catheters to fill their bladders with clean urine from someone else.
We are, most unfortunately stuck with terrorism for a very long time and it will be nearly impossible to completely eliminate. It is a far better tack for our governments to make major foreign policy changes and educate the next generation of Muslim children rather than slowly eroding our freedoms in the name of 'patriotism'. Instead of bombing poor and innocent people, we should endeavour to feed and educate them and look after the weakest of societies' health. The money spent on multi-million dollar weapons and their delivery systems could do wonders for the Western image and safety, if used wisely.
Are we ready for such a sane and humane approach ?
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My friend's name is Mohammed. He is of Pakistani origin, born and raised in Yorkshire and he is Muslim.
Why should he be profiled???
Why should he be profiled???
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Well one thing is for sure.....I just saved 15 dollars on my car insurence by switching to Geico.
But seriously, I saved 5 dollars on my last fill up at the pump as oil dropped 2.35 US today on the news that exploding baby formula could be used to bring down a 747.
Should we thank the terrorist's for thinking of this plot? Or the Bush Blair govenrments for making these loonies do something like this? I am confused
But seriously, I saved 5 dollars on my last fill up at the pump as oil dropped 2.35 US today on the news that exploding baby formula could be used to bring down a 747.
Should we thank the terrorist's for thinking of this plot? Or the Bush Blair govenrments for making these loonies do something like this? I am confused
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Scameron77
I reacted because I think comments of the 'huggy fluffy liberals' and 'Nazis/Fascists' variety often spoil good debates here, and are almost as bad as the 'I'd round the feckers up and shoot em' (those they dislike, or with whom they disagree) contributions by people who aren't up to sensible discussion but have a curious need to post in 'serious' threads anyway.
Your guess is right. I don't agree with your proposition.
I don't think of myself as liberal or human rights focussed - I think some of the decisions of the ECHR in the name of 'human rights' are completely absurd. However, I think it would be outrageously unfair to punish decent, law-abiding people for crimes committed by members of their family.
Nor do I think it would be a deterrent.
Fanatics/extremists who commit terrible terrorist atrocities against innocent human beings are so driven by their belief in their cause that nothing and no-one matters but the cause - even more so in the case of those who are prepared to sacrifice their own lives in the process.
Other than the obvious measures of intelligence, detection, conviction and life imprisonment (literally) of those who commit or plan terrorist atrocities, one step we might consider is pausing to ask ourselves why Britain is a terrorist target and most countries are not.
We might then restrain our Prime Minister's enthusiasm to join the American administration in meddling so much in the Middle East, interfering in other states' affairs and becoming involved in conflicts between other nations/countries except as our contribution to a UN peace-keeping force.
He'd have to find some other way of feeding his insatiable need to feel important on the world stage but I'm sure we could think of something to help him and, in time, he might come back down to earth and even find his conscience again. Others may disagree, but I think he used to have one.
FL
I reacted because I think comments of the 'huggy fluffy liberals' and 'Nazis/Fascists' variety often spoil good debates here, and are almost as bad as the 'I'd round the feckers up and shoot em' (those they dislike, or with whom they disagree) contributions by people who aren't up to sensible discussion but have a curious need to post in 'serious' threads anyway.
Your guess is right. I don't agree with your proposition.
I don't think of myself as liberal or human rights focussed - I think some of the decisions of the ECHR in the name of 'human rights' are completely absurd. However, I think it would be outrageously unfair to punish decent, law-abiding people for crimes committed by members of their family.
Nor do I think it would be a deterrent.
Fanatics/extremists who commit terrible terrorist atrocities against innocent human beings are so driven by their belief in their cause that nothing and no-one matters but the cause - even more so in the case of those who are prepared to sacrifice their own lives in the process.
Other than the obvious measures of intelligence, detection, conviction and life imprisonment (literally) of those who commit or plan terrorist atrocities, one step we might consider is pausing to ask ourselves why Britain is a terrorist target and most countries are not.
We might then restrain our Prime Minister's enthusiasm to join the American administration in meddling so much in the Middle East, interfering in other states' affairs and becoming involved in conflicts between other nations/countries except as our contribution to a UN peace-keeping force.
He'd have to find some other way of feeding his insatiable need to feel important on the world stage but I'm sure we could think of something to help him and, in time, he might come back down to earth and even find his conscience again. Others may disagree, but I think he used to have one.
FL
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 10th Aug 2006 at 23:54.
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more?
Tuesday, Aug. 8th, MSNBC was carrying a story from Montana. It seems that 17 Egyptian students had signed up for a University exchange program. All 17 arrived at JFK International Airport in New York City, but only 6 arrived at the University of Montana. The University notified Homeland Security when the classes started in late July, and the other 11 (ages 19-22) still had not shown up.
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I think the airline crew should understand that the fare paying passengers pay their wages, if passengers are to be denied any level of what the passengers consider to be adequate then they're likely to source another method of transport, how about acknowledging some basic requirements of what your wage payers require.
For the businessman this might be the laptop or indeed a pen and paper, all very well to say check it into the hold but only yesterday I was using my laptop in DUS when my hold baggage had been checked all the way through, if liquids are being banned onto aircraft then might one presume that there are no alcohols or soft drinks in the catering uplift and so it goes on.
Of course it is imperitive that security is tightened at this time but if some people want to permanently ban hand luggage, laptops, soft drinks, duty free's, pens & paper etc. then these are the people that need to be looking for a career change, perhaps a career not involving customer service nor public relations.
For the businessman this might be the laptop or indeed a pen and paper, all very well to say check it into the hold but only yesterday I was using my laptop in DUS when my hold baggage had been checked all the way through, if liquids are being banned onto aircraft then might one presume that there are no alcohols or soft drinks in the catering uplift and so it goes on.
Of course it is imperitive that security is tightened at this time but if some people want to permanently ban hand luggage, laptops, soft drinks, duty free's, pens & paper etc. then these are the people that need to be looking for a career change, perhaps a career not involving customer service nor public relations.
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Flying Lawyer
(about the PM)
Fringe Festival? Puppetry of the PM?
BOFH
(about the PM)
He'd have to find some other way of feeding his insatiable need to feel important on the world stage
BOFH
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Whilst the plot appears to have been conceived in Britain by UK citizens and the UK is involved, the prime target seems to be the US - the owners and destination of the targeted aicraft.
Of course the slaughter of hundreds of innocents would involve the nationals of many countries from many religions including Muslims.
Of course the slaughter of hundreds of innocents would involve the nationals of many countries from many religions including Muslims.
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Flying Lawyer,
Please don't patronise it does your education and legal training no credit. If you wish to get into a mud slinging contest lets do it via PM.
I do think parents and family members in many cases have an idea of the extremism of their children, zealots are hard to keep quiet, its not like underage drinking or drug taking, quite often these people proclaim their piety and the downfall of the society they live in for anyone who can hear it. Its not hard to recognise and to bring to the attention of others.
If there was some form of reaction as a result of their actions to the people closest I am sure some of them (however not all for the reasons you outlined), but some would think twice knowing that. Draconian yes but you fight fire with fire. I haven't seen any decent alternatives. At the moment the government seem to propogate is community chats and coffee mornings about how we need to understand each other better.
I agree with your assessment of UK foreign policy too, we are no longer a world player, despite Trident and our permament seat at the UN, we lost our oomph after WWII, then again when we followed George to Gulf II. We now have no credability because of one man and our alignment with him.
Things might be different if instead of diluting forces when Osama was cornered in 2002/03 to the Gulf we got him, however things would definetly be different if we finished the job in 1991 when we had a world force and popular support for the Kurds and Shia's in Iraq.
Hindsight is a great thing.
I get confused now if our Army is fighting in the UN colours (Sierra Leone), European Union Force (proposed for Lebanon), NATO (Afganistan) or some other organisation (Iraq).
Please don't patronise it does your education and legal training no credit. If you wish to get into a mud slinging contest lets do it via PM.
I do think parents and family members in many cases have an idea of the extremism of their children, zealots are hard to keep quiet, its not like underage drinking or drug taking, quite often these people proclaim their piety and the downfall of the society they live in for anyone who can hear it. Its not hard to recognise and to bring to the attention of others.
If there was some form of reaction as a result of their actions to the people closest I am sure some of them (however not all for the reasons you outlined), but some would think twice knowing that. Draconian yes but you fight fire with fire. I haven't seen any decent alternatives. At the moment the government seem to propogate is community chats and coffee mornings about how we need to understand each other better.
I agree with your assessment of UK foreign policy too, we are no longer a world player, despite Trident and our permament seat at the UN, we lost our oomph after WWII, then again when we followed George to Gulf II. We now have no credability because of one man and our alignment with him.
Things might be different if instead of diluting forces when Osama was cornered in 2002/03 to the Gulf we got him, however things would definetly be different if we finished the job in 1991 when we had a world force and popular support for the Kurds and Shia's in Iraq.
Hindsight is a great thing.
I get confused now if our Army is fighting in the UN colours (Sierra Leone), European Union Force (proposed for Lebanon), NATO (Afganistan) or some other organisation (Iraq).
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[QUOTE=Phileas Fogg]I think the airline crew should understand that the fare paying passengers pay their wages, if passengers are to be denied any level of what the passengers consider to be adequate then they're likely to source another method of transport, how about acknowledging some basic requirements of what your wage payers require.
It’s got Sod all to do with the crews Phileas Fogg
We just do as we are told by the security people….ever tried to argue with one of them?
It’s got Sod all to do with the crews Phileas Fogg
We just do as we are told by the security people….ever tried to argue with one of them?
Last edited by deathcruzer; 11th Aug 2006 at 01:25.
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[QUOTE=scameron77] there are a signifcant number of idealistic youths who want to get their 40 virgins in Heaven.
Oh they have run out apparently...no wonder they are bloody hard enough to find down here...
[QUOTE=scameron77]However somewhere like the Falklands or some Island off the West coast of Scotland could be provided
The north pole perhaps?
Oh they have run out apparently...no wonder they are bloody hard enough to find down here...
[QUOTE=scameron77]However somewhere like the Falklands or some Island off the West coast of Scotland could be provided
The north pole perhaps?
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Originally Posted by DISCOKID
Well the no hand luggage is a fabulous idea - once people get the message security will speed up significantly and not only that loading of planes will be much quicker too - no more waiting while people try to squeeze blatantly oversized bags into the overhead lockers.
LDMAX - the reason for not allowing coke or water is that you would then be delayed even more while every single person with any sort of bottle had to open it and drink some. And if your laptop is so precious perhaps you should leave it at home... i've travelled every week with mine shoved in the middle of my suitcase no problem.
Frankly its quite unbelievable that people are complaining about these measures - the threat may not yet have been fully averted hence why you should be happy these measures are in place.
LDMAX - the reason for not allowing coke or water is that you would then be delayed even more while every single person with any sort of bottle had to open it and drink some. And if your laptop is so precious perhaps you should leave it at home... i've travelled every week with mine shoved in the middle of my suitcase no problem.
Frankly its quite unbelievable that people are complaining about these measures - the threat may not yet have been fully averted hence why you should be happy these measures are in place.
You really need to look at the big picture.....
Draconian measures like this will mean shorter queues at security, smaller lines at check in and quicker boarding but not because of the lack of hand baggage BUT because people will vote with their feet by not travelling by air and seeking alternatives ie conference calls, video conferencing, holidays by car in UK / Europe...........before long the post 911 days will be back and YOU ( and me ) will be out of a job matey !!
The reason your lap top was in your case is because you probably don't need it for your work and therefore it's ok for it to be in your case....I would guess that 90% of business travellers would require or want access to their laptop and /or phone either in the lounge prior or on the flight itself............
Drinks are different , we COULD stop them being transported airside and then allow pax to purchase them airside just as we allow them to buy just about anything else airside EXCEPT the prohibited items which might well now include beverages.....
Following an incident in China where a guy set fire to the aircraft using a flammable liquid NO bottled drinks allowed on board pax carry on unless can be proven not to be flammable.......
Moral of the story , never lose sight of who is paying your wages at the end of the day
