Genghis the Engineer

Hard to understand why specifically. As I understand it, the current security threat seems to be primarily targetted at flights to/from the USA.

G

lexxity

Do you honestly think that if these measures weren't neccesary they would be put into operation? If the terrorists had managed to go ahead with their plot then what would you be saying. I assume that the prohibition of liquids has something to do with a chemical reaction or the flamability of same. If they are in the hold then maybe they can't be activated.

Yes it is a disruption for the passengers, but better a disruption than the kind of thing we saw on 9/11.

sugden

John Reid's knee has jerked so hard that he's kicked himself in the face.

Terrorists try to blow up planes... my god, you're joking! What will they think of next?!?!

A bomb in a handbag will blow up in the hold as well as the cabin. Either way, you're screwed.

So putting handbaggage in the hold is not the answer. Reviewing screening and security, in a calm and rational manner, is the answer. Anything less and the terrorists win.

If we reacted like this when faced with an issue at 35,000 ft we'd nose into the ground in seconds.

Cahlibahn

It's being reported that all the arrested were booked on consecutive flights from various UK airports (LHR, GLA & MAN were mentioned) to the US on US carriers.

Genghis the Engineer

Actually you are probably wrong.

Firstly, if something was designed to be set-off manually (which would be logical if carried on hand-baggage) there is no potential to operate it whilst in the hold.

Secondly, modern airline holds are designed to contain quite substantial explosions without endangering the main pressurised/structural section of the aircraft. No certainties, but a small IED in the hold is far less likely to bring the aeroplane down than the same in the cabin.

G

Final 3 Greens

Lexx

I'm only commenting on the consequences of the action taken.

That's not saying the action is unecessary.

Adamant

From what I've read (them banning car key's with remote controls built in, electronic key fobs etc), it sounds like they expected a remote detonator to be carried onboard.

Perhaps they were somehow able to get something into the hold and only needed to carry the detonator? In which case, stopping them carrying that will prevent the device from going off?

Superpilot

More booga booga for the masses Give us your trust (even though we are the most hated, incompetent government to date) or Dem Ter'rur'rists, they gonna getcha and hurcha!

Rest assured this will end up in to the pile of all other so-called "terror plots" for which there have been no charges but plenty of damage to community relations.

Meanwhile other headlines: 'Israel seizes south Lebanon town' and 'Iraq troops under-equipped'. Damn fine moment to tell us about something that has been in the plans for 'several months' !

beamer

Let us hope that when this current problem settles down a little we see a significant reduction in the ludicrous amount of 'hand luggage' that is hauled onto aircraft each and every flight. Once passengers are aware of the new situation (obviously not today) in theory at least once checked in, their passage through security should be relatively smooth.

To the contributor who wondered how long Britain has been governed by the Scots (see earlier post) - you obviously have not been paying attention !!

blue up

As an ex Boy-Scout type, my flghtbag is full of STUFF (spare shirt, razor, toothbrush, mini bottle of antibacterial handwipe etc etc). Will I need to empty it out? I feel there may be a call from crewing today!!

Are crew getting "super searched" or just scanned?

They took my toothpicks off me 2 weeks ago but the same day saw the same security team allowing 4 of our passengers to board a different 737 on the far side of the airport.

Events like these do actually highlight the failings in the system, hopefully before the naughty boys find them. I don't object to the inconvenience, although I may seem to when I'm in the queue. On a security course we were told that security cannot prevent terrorists but it acts as a deterrent by making it seem easier to go and find a softer target. They said that an occasional refusal-to-enter of a cleaner/handling agent for non-compliance with ID Card regulaions will give an airline an image as a security conscious airline, thus making a different airline a more attractive target.
An effective security agent is the one who makes a nuisance of him/herself but does the job thoroughly. Playing patty-cake on your arms to search for knives is counterproductive. It has to be done properly or not at all (well, actually, done properly only)

Booze. Why do we carry it and sell it onboard? I've never grasped why it isn't a case of selling a ticket that can be redeamed on landing. Anyone?

docash1983

Reports are vague, so please excuse me. News reports have stated that they have closed due to congestion, so god only knows when they could re-open. It is sure to have a very large knock on effect with aircraft diversions .

luoto

beamer: fair point as long as it is matched with greater liability for carriers, traceability and strict penalties for those caught liberating said items.
But today is not the place to discuss.

Atlanta-Driver

I sincerely hope that this measure is not permanent. However if it is I have flown my last flight with BA. I will not check my navbag in the hold, period. I carry digital camera, laptop and a variety of other stuff including licenses, medicals. Any company that demands these items are not allowed in the Cabin and with security randomly opening bags is not worth traveling with. I can see trains in Central Europe becoming more and more popular for positioning crews around as well as everyday travellers.

AD

warkman

Or maybe something more sinister???

Tony talking to john Ried:- " john, we have lost the trust and vote of the people. that damned Brown is after my job. Time to put plan B into action"
Reid "What? the Coup? close down the airports, bring in the troops and arrest the Royal family? declare a state of emergency and do it whilst Parliament is on holiday? Fantastic Idea Comrade Blair"

cortilla

ok so what do they know the we don't. Why on earth close the a/p to all incoming flights??? Unless this plot was supposed to happen today, and they're worried that some people slipped thru the net. Surely then close it to departing flights as well. ANd i'm not trying to scare monger or stir, i'm really curious. But hey i'm in holland at the moment, so not that affected to be fair.

GROUNDHOG

Can anyone confirm that all flights out of Brussels have also been cancelled please?

El Grifo

Give it a BREAK warkman

Wiley

I haven't read all four pages of this thread, so apologies if this point has already been made, but it has occurred to me that in foiling this threat before a half dozen aircraft are lost in mid-Atlantic, the UK police are victims of their own success.

My point is, most people, and quite a large slice of the media, will react to this in the same way they have reacted to the recent 'chemical lab' raid in East London - criticising the police because they didn't find anything.

My prediction? Some slick lawyer will get the people arrested off from most of the charges because there won't be sufficient proof for a court of law, and the poor bloody plods will get no credit for possibly stopping these people before they could carry out their plans. Ask yourselfd what the world's reaction would have been if the US authorities had arrested all the September 11th hijackers at the airport and stopped them befor they carried out their plans? Well meaning US lawyers would have had every one of them released within 24 hours.)

I said it after the East London raid and I'l say it here again - the bad guys don't have to actually carry out these threats any more. They could damn near finance their terror organisations entirely by sooling police onto some of their mates who will make a point of having absolutely no incriminating evidence in their homes and then sue the police for compensation for wrongful arrest.

In the meantime, they achieve their aim twofold:

1. The public get more disillusioned (and disbelieving) with the constant (false?) calls of 'wolf' by the police, and
2. The disruption these 'false' alerts cause is almost as effective as the act itself.


PS: I hadn't read 'warkman's' post when I wrote the messsage above, but it would seem he's proven my point.

simoncooldude

Just looked, but can't actually find anything on it. I know it was mentioned on Sky News about 30 minutes ago, but nothing on the Brussels website, BBC, Sky or anything on Google!

cortilla

Just heard on belgian radio. All flights from Zaventem to the UK have temporarily been cancelled.