SXB

I think bjcc has been unfairly criticised, some of it fairly personal and I think he should be congratulated for not doing the same in return. He's expressing his opinion as are some of you but to sling such personal criticisms at both him and his profession (whether former or present) is not really acceptable for such a forum. This isn't Jet Blast.

Flying Lawyer

bjccYour attitude is typical of a certain type of police officer.
Surely the jobs we do, or did for a long time, must have some influence on us?
People often ask if I’m a lawyer. Mostly neutrally, but it has on occasions been preceded by a word beginning with f.


Merchant Adventurer
I agree it’s a pity, but it's happened for years and bjcc almost always brings it upon himself.

I too have encountered many police officers who are "highly intelligent, open-minded" - in every rank from Police Constable up to Chief Constable/Commissioner. I have also encountered many who fall into the other category you mentioned in your first sentence. Mindful of your urging to avoid personal attacks, I resist the almost overwhelming temptation to go further.

So have I.
bjcc most certainly does not have a first rate knowledge of either the criminal law or its application. If you'd said motoring and 'street offences' I'd agree.

‘Somewhat anomalous’
In such instances, the more serious the consequences or potential consequences of a police action, the more senior the rank required to authorise it. IMHO, that’s reasonable and sensible. I'd be happy to debate it with you, but we'd be going way off topic.



FL

fyrefli

To many business travellers/companies it would not. The main issues are with computers, memory devices and mobile phones (see also separate thread). You don't even have to factor any inconvenience issues in here because they're irrelevant alongside the this. To recap the points made in this and elsewhere:

1. These devices are likely uninsured for hold travel
2. DPA and other considerations mean it is at best unwise and at worst illegal to surrender these items out of personal control for many
3. The opportunity to work and earn is removed during the trip
4. This includes the benefit of still being able to work during any delay occasioned
5. The risk of loss of equipment even for those legally able to hand it over into the hold far outweighs any benefit of speed of travel, should anything go wrong.

I was working out earlier on my daily cycle hour that (even though I actually have no choice due 2. above in particular), whilst on average the duration of each leg of my monthly commute to the UK is five hours and it would take me probably eight if I were to ride and use the Hoek - Harwich - Hoek ferry, I'd actually gain well over 100 pounds each way from the trade off in earnings vs cost due to the ability to work on the boat for three hours or more. This is comparing with the currently inconveniently timed EasyJet AMS >> BRS >> AMS route - but KLM costs typically another couple of hours work in fares difference, so the point is moot.

Then add in the fact that I'd pass within 30 mins detour of 1... 2, 3... 4, 5... 6 of my long-term clients on the ride to Harwich to Bristol and back and I start wondering why I fly in the first place! (Okay, I do know, but it's to do with the relative running costs of my UK bike and the one I'm just ordering here and that's a bit beyond the discussion )

We know already from evidence in threads here that, for example, large companies have already effectively banned internal UK air travel in the current climate (yes, some of them would reinstate it in a limited way if the restrictions remained) and that other European and US residents are already rebooking flights to avoid the UK (bringing even greater problems in that the UK is currently hamstringing itself in an open market).

In short, companies and individuals cannot work without their computers or the data on them so they will not fly. And many of these people (not cheapskates like me) are paying premium fares and subsidising the rest, so the effect is multiplied.

Cheers,

Rich.

Captain Airclues

Could the leaking of information regarding a threat from cabin baggage be an attempt to get us to take our eye off the ball with regard to hold baggage? Until last week the hold baggage screeners of the TSA were very strict on any electrical items. My case was opened at KATL because I had left my phone charger in it. However we now have cases being allowed through containing mobile phones and laptops.
It is now much harder for the terrorists to get something into the cabin, but I would suggest that it is much easier to hide something in checked baggage.

Airclues

el !

Who is prohibiting you to take card and coins ? Why is that ?
Just curious.

el !

Cap.t, I'm afraid you could be right. Not surprisingly a very sensate comment come from aircrew (are you).

bjcc and his followers please read this thread equivalent in the very first forum here.
I have an high opinion of the aircrew opinions because the vast majority of them are balanced, succesful individuals with a real knowledge of complex systems like the Aviation business and the related politics. They talk among themselves, and they think.

That alone makes a lot of difference.

LD Max

Actually, many passengers don't have a choice. Any laptop which contains personal data, (or the secure means to access personal data), must be carried. This is the "best practice" interpretation of the Data Protection Act rules incumbent upon Financial Institutions.

Additionally, many "Company Issued" laptops, remain "Company Assets" and are not insured in transit if let out of sight of the user. For that matter, many items of personal equipment are excluded travel insurance if carried in the hold. The difference being is that an employee who loses his laptop, may also lose his job as a result!

This is quite aside from the fact that those of us who need to work en-route cannot justify business class prices if we can't have our "toys" with us.

411A

Hmmm, the UK does seem to have their knickers in a twist with aircraft/airport security at the moment.

Clearly, the best advice to air travelers is to avoid the UK when/if possible, when making European connections.
FRA and AMS seem to functing OK...and the whole process moves much better there anyway, now and before.

For those right and truly stuck in the UK...tough beans.
Your 'government' has right and truly run amok.

Having said this, full marks for Scotland Yard for having discovered the plot in the first place.

If only the airport folks could be of the same caliber...too much to expect, surely.
How truly sad.

Hey, on second thought, as the beer is usually warm anyway, overseas folks now have a good reason to stay away.

Human Factor

We must have a crisis. I'm agreeing with 411A!!!

Apart from the bit about warm beer......

SXB

Ldmax
Come on LDmax, you shouldn't be carrying any personal data on other people on a unsecured laptop. Furthermore 'any secure means to access' means just that, if you have access to another confidential infrastructure via your laptop then it should be done via secondary security protocol completely independent of the laptop.

I deal with very confidential data on a daily basis and any person in my organisation who transported such data on a laptop computer (whether securely stored or not) would be out of a job the same day. If we need to send such data from one geographical location to another then we do it in one of the established secure ways, of which there are many.

The first thing any security consultant will tell you is never store valuable information on a laptop computer.

Chilli Monster

1) They didn't (the intel came from an interrogation carried out by the Pakistani security services)

2) They haven't proved any plot yet It's still "alleged".

Those of us who live in this country still have the Meneses and Forest Gate fiasco's firmly embedded in our memories, and are still waiting to see whether this is another thwarted "non-event"

Pax Vobiscum

This security consultant would add:
"without a suitably strong encryption mechanism".

el !

Hi SXB,

your approach to laptop security is a bit rushed. Not all companies / organizations have the same set of rules, not the same levels of required security.
The industry provides a wide range of solutions, from native encryption on the disk and integrated fingerprint readers, (a la IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad), to other proprietary tecniques used by military and Law enforcement worldwide on both desktop and laptop PCs.
If your organization does approve these, is not said that others didn't found an acceptable compromise to give their employees mobilty and security.

ZBMAN

Security level downgraded from critical to 'severe' (Sky news). 1 item of handbaggage allowed apparently. Light at the end of the tunnel?

LD Max

Yep, I quite agree... Like economy fare tickets being about £3,000 apiece.

LD Max

Thanx Pax and el!. Yep, to about 4 layers, Secure BIOS, radius keys and the whole bit. And you're right this particular laptop I'm thinking of is nothing but a dumb terminal for the company intranet over a VPN. It contains little more than XP and a disk full of cyphers. But it doesn't change the rules that it never leaves my (wife's) sight on pain of dismissal - (because she's actually the one who works for the financial institution - not me.)

derekvader

Terror threat downgraded, some hand luggage allowed again

Globaliser

The 0200 news has just announced that in the wake of the threat level downgrade, some cabin baggage will now be allowed back on to ex-UK flights.

Nov71

Good news on cabin restrictions, esp liquid medicines as it avoids IMO potential legal pitfalls re confiscation ie it is illegal to give prescription only medicines to anyone other than an accreddited clinician or pharmacist, offence - supplying/obtaining/trafficking in controlled drugs.
Let us hope they also allow GTN aerosols for angina sufferers given the current stress levels at airports.

finfly1

To amplify my thoughts somewhat. I advocate each passenger being allowed one piece of carryon, limited in size as has been mentioned. I advocate tsa or equivalent paper sealing same and placing it in the overheads where it should be safe.
It should be 'relatively' easy and inexpensive to install temporary locks like a large bicycle cable lock which runs the length of the cabin before more elaborate electronic locks are installed at the next major overhaul.
I would submit the cost is a good deal less than losing a third of your flights out of Heathrow. It would keep people in their seats longer upon docking as well. At the same time, I think airlines should be encouraged (or forced) to do a far better job with the hold baggage than has been their history.