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Too late for 2022?

Old 14th Apr 2022, 20:48
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli View Post
On the other hand - and again generalising:
- pilots who have been in GA all their life are usually there because they did not make it to anything bigger and better
says it all really. A lot of companies that previously used this mobs service have chosen to disassociate themselves from the individuals and the business. The list is getting pretty long.
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 23:25
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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You're just another GA company that is stuck in the past and takes advantage of new pilots.

There is no need for a stupid GA Ready course, that's just a big crock of shit. If you just taught them properly during line training, it'd be more than adequate.
This pretty much sums it up. I'll bet that any mob running a 'GA Ready Course' created it because things were a little quiet.

In the end, if a candidate needs to be told they have to be on time for a shift etc a 'GA Ready Course' is not going to fix all the other deficiencies. Maybe a 'Choosing a GA Ready Candidate' course needs to be created for the Chief Pilot. Maybe the problem lies with them?
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Old 14th Apr 2022, 23:58
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FrothyFriday View Post
Hi Gents,

Smashed out a couple hundred hours over the east coast during lockdown after finishing my CPL and trying my luck in Darwin. Have sent resumes to all my contacts but haven't had an offer worth taking yet.. Just wondering if it's too late to head up and knock on some doors for the coming season. Hoping to get in and out asap.

Cheers
FF
Hey mate,

This thread sums up everything that is great about GA in Australia, and also everything that is wrong with it. Aus is a big flat brown country with more or less no real weather. Flying here isn't that hard. Pay attention to the guys a few years ahead of you that bounce onto bigger and better, and emulate what they do. They'll teach you what you need to be successful, and will help you build a solid network.

You'll have a blast up north, whether it's Broome, Kunnas, Darwin, Cairns or wherever. My one piece of advice is that these Pay to Play schemes have been around in one form or another for a long time. In my experience, they will make no real difference to the overall trajectory of your career one way or the other. The tried and true advice of getting a NVFR, MECIR or IR still holds water, get to that 1500 hours, and the world is your oyster. Aviation is bigger than top end flying. Good luck on the hunt!
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 09:27
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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New CPL Pilots and GA Ready Courses

Two things appear to be being missed in relation to discussion on GA Ready courses,
Shiny shoes and a clean pressed shirt take self discipline to come up sparkling. Self discipline is the stuff that makes good pilots. Over the years I have seen more than one pilot who did not have that and is no longer around.
The second is that the punters who are paying out hundreds of dollars to see the Red Rock or go from A to B look to the pilot as someone they want to have respect for after all their lives are in his hands. His appearance and attitude
are the things that give them confidence as to the outcome of the flight.
For all you critics of GA Courses think back and try to remember if you had confidence in your pilot who looked like something out of a dumpmaster and treated you as walk-in freight.
If you have not seen that then I suggest you have not been around for long.
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 12:35
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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We already knew how to look decent and professional, and if pilots can’t do that these days without doing a scam course, then they’ll soon learn when they find out they’re being rejected for jobs because they can’t look decent and professional.

You can’t keep designing courses for the idiots in the street who can’t work shit out for themselves.
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 12:54
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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For all you critics of GA Courses think back and try to remember if you had confidence in your pilot who looked like something out of a dumpmaster and treated you as walk-in freight.
Dude.............Why did you employ this pilot in the first place? It's your fault if the pilot looks like the cat dragged them in. If the passenger comes back and complains about the way the pilot looked or behaved then you're the problem, you checked them to line.
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Old 16th Apr 2022, 04:39
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
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Just had a great laugh reading this thread!

GA ready course? Yeah sure a newby needs some help but isn’t that the job of the company employing? A few hours ICUS and away they go. Read the company ops manual and SOPS boom.

Shite this seems to be getting outa hand! It was bad enough hearing years ago that a certain company used to charge for a checkride with a QF bloke.
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Old 17th Apr 2022, 01:22
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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GA Ready Training

Morno, Tossbag, Global.
When you guys deal with newbee CPL holders, 200-250 hours wonders, still living at home and still in nappies with the ink still wet on their ticket you will get a real idea of how little they were taught at flight school.
You say the flight school should have taught them what it takes to be a GA Ready CPL. Who to pay? You say that the new employer should wear that cost to get them really GA Ready. The margins in GA are slim and every time that prop turns over there should be a dollar going into the till. Training to get the sprogs up to speed costs real money, time and people. Something that an operator has little of.
I suggest you go out there and talk with charter operators for their opinion. I doubt that they will be saying that they are running a flying school teaching a newbee the vary basics of what a CPL should know.
Flying Bear made the correct comment that the standard of flight training has gone down hill in recent years. In part that is not doubt because the new breed of low time instructors do not have charter experience to pass on and the older breed of experienced instructors are fading from the scene. Those are the guys who knew what the word Airmanship meant.
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Old 17th Apr 2022, 02:16
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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The margins in GA are slim and every time that prop turns over there should be a dollar going into the till. Training to get the sprogs up to speed costs real money, time and people. Something that an operator has little of.
100% the operators problem. If you can't make an earn after taking into account the cost of doing business, ALL of the costs, then don't do it. It's not the type of business to be a part of if you're making razor thin margins that don't include ICUS and route check costs.

At some point in time there has to be a reckoning, for both sides of the equation, employer AND employee.
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Old 17th Apr 2022, 03:52
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Capitalising on desperate pilots is what it looks like.

Yes true a fresh CPL is very green. Heck I remember when I first started I did not even know how to use a HF radio, the flying schools fault? Well it was in a major city center with no HF in any aircraft. Was it an issue? No, a very quick lesson by my first employer.

Employers that take on low hour pilots know that they will have to put in a little extra work, however it also goes the other way and breeds loyalty from said employee.

How loyal is a pilot going to be if told nah go spend XXXX on a job ready course first even though you hold a CPL?

Just seems strange to me. Still the hardest part for a newbie is to crack that first job, hopefully with a reputable operator with a fleet for advancement.

Where or when does it stop? The next step is airline ready courses, yep you know they are there. Again taking advantage of pilots. It’s bad enough now that most will spend for a rating.

Yes I am far removed from GA in Aus, maybe this is the new way? However I still reckon it’s all about attitude. Jump in the car go knock on doors, stay professional, don’t get upset when you get your 30th no, it will happen if you want it bad enough,

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Old 17th Apr 2022, 08:29
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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runway16 sounds like a boss who doesn’t pay award
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Old 17th Apr 2022, 13:10
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by runway16 View Post
Morno, Tossbag, Global.
When you guys deal with newbee CPL holders, 200-250 hours wonders, still living at home and still in nappies with the ink still wet on their ticket you will get a real idea of how little they were taught at flight school.
You say the flight school should have taught them what it takes to be a GA Ready CPL. Who to pay? You say that the new employer should wear that cost to get them really GA Ready. The margins in GA are slim and every time that prop turns over there should be a dollar going into the till. Training to get the sprogs up to speed costs real money, time and people. Something that an operator has little of.
I suggest you go out there and talk with charter operators for their opinion. I doubt that they will be saying that they are running a flying school teaching a newbee the vary basics of what a CPL should know.
Flying Bear made the correct comment that the standard of flight training has gone down hill in recent years. In part that is not doubt because the new breed of low time instructors do not have charter experience to pass on and the older breed of experienced instructors are fading from the scene. Those are the guys who knew what the word Airmanship meant.
Cry me a river. You’re obviously a poor business person who needs to charge new CPL pilots (by the way, they ARE GA ready, it’s called having a CPL) money for a course that covers the training that you’re apparently going to get out of, to be able to stay afloat.

The standard of trainees hasn’t changed much in the last 20 years mate, nor has the ability for some ass to take advantage of people.

I’ve done GA, and I can’t say I probably had much more of a clue than any newly trained pilot now. But my employers showed me the ropes and spent the effort doing so. The fact that your existing pilots can’t sufficiently supervise a new pilot reflects badly upon your own check and training system and the GA ready course (I thought it was supposed to teach them everything? Why can’t they pass the knowledge on during ICUS?).

So basically there’s 2 conclusions:
  • You need to take a look at your business model, because it sounds like it sucks
  • You’re taking advantage of new CPL holders to pay your beer bill on Friday night in Mitchell Street.
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Old 17th Apr 2022, 21:09
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Morno’s post above represents what I detest about aviation in general…

Rather than offer much constructive, he revels in a condescending personal attack on someone he knows nothing about. Playing the man, not the ball - how typical.

Regardless of your point of view on this topic, all I can say is that our profession is ultimately doomed at all levels because there is just no support for each other… At the very top, Alan Joyce must be rubbing his hands together, because I’m sure these pontificating, devisive attitudes extend into the airline world, too.

If I knew of all the toxicity in this industry when I was a newbie, I’d probably have done something else. However, here I am, doing the best I can for my team & myself in a necessary part of the wider industry, copping flack from a range of venomous people.

However, I won’t be “crying you, or anyone else a river…” I’ve got way too much to do today for that, including giving a start to two young pilots (yeah, both have done the GA Ready course…) but notwithstanding, that will involve type familiarisation & about 30 hrs line training (at our cost) whilst on full pay (IAW Award). This takes about a month - given the burden of CASA requirements. Plus, subsidised accommodation, etc which we hope they don’t trash. All for pilots we will be lucky to retain for longer than six months, as the industry moves.

Despite being a “champion” of pilot’s rights - how many new pilots did you give an opportunity to this week? At your expense?Genuine questions - as I have no idea who you are & you could run a reputable GA company - but I’m guessing not.

Happy Easter!

Last edited by Flying Bear; 17th Apr 2022 at 21:57.
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Old 17th Apr 2022, 22:18
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flying Bear View Post
Morno’s post above is everything I detest about aviation in general…

Rather than offer something constructive, he revels in a condescending personal attack on someone he knows nothing about. Playing the man, not the ball - how typical.

Regardless of your point of view on this topic, all I can say is that our profession is ultimately doomed at all levels because there is just no support for each other… At the vey top, Alan Joyce must be rubbing his hands together, because I’m sure these pontificating, devisive attitudes extend into the airline world, too.

If I knew of all the toxicity in this industry when I was a newbie, I’d probably have done something else. However, here I am, doing the best I can for my team and myself in a necessary part of the wider industry, copping flack from a range of venomous people.

However, I won’t be “crying you, or anyone else a river…” I’ve got way too much to do today for that!

Happy Easter!
Would you rather that I congratulated the man for coming up with a new way to rip off pilots?

What I detest about the industry is the number of people who are there to take advantage of others, and then try and justify it by complaining about “training standards”. Newsflash buddy, I went to a good flying school 20 years ago, but do you think I knew much or anything about how to use a HF Radio, refuel from a drum properly, or change the oil in the engine? No, I didn’t, but I learnt it from those who then employed me and did my ICUS training, because that’s what they did and they didn’t go broke over it.

I am a long way up the industry now, but whenever I do come across a new pilot to the industry who asks for advice and help, I am very happy to do it. And you know what, I don’t charge them for it!

You say that AJ must be rubbing his hands together. He probably is, because he’s seeing people create new ways to continue to rip us off.
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Old 17th Apr 2022, 22:21
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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So busy you start the day on prune trying to justify?

As I said above I am far removed but why the need to continue the justification.

Back to is it too late? Again no idea but if ya don’t try you will never know. What was that old NT saying? No not the CU in the NT one, oh that’s right, you’ll never ever know if you never ever go!
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Old 17th Apr 2022, 22:33
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flying Bear View Post
giving a start to two young pilots (yeah, both have done the GA Ready course…) but notwithstanding, that will involve type familiarisation & about 30 hrs line training
If they are getting 30 hours of training from you, surely that negates the need for a ‘GA Ready’ course?
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Old 17th Apr 2022, 22:41
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Rather than offer much constructive, he revels in a condescending personal attack on someone he knows nothing about. Playing the man, not the ball - how typical.
Yeah/nah, as he says, you're just another hack ripping off the naive. You wonder why you're copping attacks. You've started two new pilots, hero you. BUT they did the GA ready course. Wow, and you still need to induct them, what a joke. You're spending 30 hours and a month of ICUS but they still need GA ready? There's something seriously wrong with your induction if you can't get it done without GA ready, thief.
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Old 17th Apr 2022, 22:41
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom View Post
If they are getting 30 hours of training from you, surely that negates the need for a ‘GA Ready’ course?
30 hours training to fly a GA machine? Does that come with a complimentary space shuttle endorsement?
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Old 18th Apr 2022, 00:32
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brakerider View Post
30 hours training to fly a GA machine? Does that come with a complimentary space shuttle endorsement?
I know right! I think I might have done maybe 10hrs at the most, then let loose. Still worked out how to fill up out of a drum too.
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Old 18th Apr 2022, 05:19
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
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A practice I remember this GA Ready mob did... they had their GA Ready students manning their front desk and running around like headless chooks during the day trying to look as hard working as possible to try and score a gig after their $4k had been taken. They weren't being paid for their work - they were paying for the privilege of learning "customer service skills".
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