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King Air down at Essendon?

Old 12th May 2018, 01:50
  #841 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700
841 posts and nobody has mentioned control/gust/rudder locks... just sayin'...
I mentioned friction locks in post #578 and there were discussion about other control locks there after........so it has been covered.
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Old 12th May 2018, 09:07
  #842 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sms777
I mentioned friction locks in post #578 and there were discussion about other control locks there after........so it has been covered.
You can't taxi a King Air with them in, you'd notice a hell of a lot earlier than the take off roll.
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Old 12th May 2018, 09:28
  #843 (permalink)  
 
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Having not been behind the controls of a KA I wouldn't know, however and RFDS pilot mentioned it was possible to taxi with at least one of the *control* locks in place.

It happened to the Gulstream in the US not long back.
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Old 13th May 2018, 01:52
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That means it likely hasn't even gone to the DIPs yet, if it had the status should be "Final Report: External Review".
Mr Peabody, I now hear that the report has not yet gone for final review, let alone to the DIP's. This would lead me to guess that the report is a minimum of 4 months away. And so its becoming believable that the report will be 2 years after the accident.

This makes a mockery of the statements by the ATSB CEO that they have both the funding and the organisation structure to complete complex reports within 12 months. This is an organisation that is not fulfilling its charter.
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Old 13th May 2018, 01:54
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Having spoken to ATSB, expect to see the report in Octoberish, currently being finalised internally
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Old 13th May 2018, 10:05
  #846 (permalink)  
 
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Really dose it matter if the outcome is 12 months or 24 months if there was no mechanical defect which caused this accident which could lead to other accidents within the same type of aircraft.
There has been no ADs etc from this accident issued.
With this I mind it leaves over developments which cause this accident which can be assumed are off the one off type.
I would rather see a complaint result than if but maybe. But realistically I donít think we will really ever know what the real cause was.
But rest assured ATSB will find a cause for the accident even if itís no true and correct
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Old 13th May 2018, 10:26
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Old 13th May 2018, 11:15
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The cause is known by ATSB and those that need to know why, already know. It's in review.
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Old 13th May 2018, 11:48
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700
841 posts and nobody has mentioned control/gust/rudder locks... just sayin'...
Posts # 201, 202, 583, 584... just sayin


The cause is known by ATSB and those that need to know why, already know. It's in review.
Are you implying control locks were left in and this is what the ATSB will report?
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Old 13th May 2018, 11:57
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Nope.

The lock theory was from a KA driver.

If the report is at the involved parties or internal review stage, those that need to know will already know. Of course those people that do already know, are smart enough to keep their mouth closed due to the litigious world in which we live.
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Old 13th May 2018, 12:15
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Not everyone is that smart!
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Old 13th May 2018, 12:45
  #852 (permalink)  
 
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What, like the person in a high profile public position (that should know better) sprouting from the tree-tops as to why the Beaver went in?
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Old 13th May 2018, 14:14
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But rest assured ATSB will find a cause for the accident even if itís no true and correct
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the US NTSB are required to publish a Most Probable Cause of an accident if they are unable to prove the factual "real" cause.

If so, it would be a useful Rule for the ATSB to adopt. At least it gives a sound reason for operators to review where applicable, their training policies for that type, rather than be left to speculate and pretend it will never happen to them.
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Old 14th May 2018, 11:15
  #854 (permalink)  
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US NTSB are required to publish a Most Probable Cause of an accident if they are unable to prove the factual "real" cause.
Which IIRC, used to be the case here in Australia back when the old Aviation Safety Digest was virtually required reading.
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Old 14th May 2018, 12:14
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Heard today that thereís little doubt by those in the know that itís friction locks. After maintenance, if the locks are loose, the left throttle retards causing a bank to the left. Similar accident in the US recently. One every 10 years I was told...
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Old 14th May 2018, 12:44
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.........
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Old 14th May 2018, 13:04
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Originally Posted by kellykelpie
Heard today that there’s little doubt by those in the know that it’s friction locks. After maintenance, if the locks are loose, the left throttle retards causing a bank to the left. Similar accident in the US recently. One every 10 years I was told...


kelly, it wouldn't surprise me if this was the case. It's (friction) been known about in the king air community for a long time but unfortunately not as wide as one would like- even guys with a decade plus on type have not known about it. I originally brought up the friction lock and power lever slide way back early in the thread- not as a speculative cause to this accident but to hopefully inform others about what can happen with it (because it can present and feel like an engine failure, and if you aren't aware about it and react incorrectly it can catch someone out. It shouldn't but it can).

I have my own gut feeling as to what may have occurred. I can think of several plausible scenarios based on face value and the information presented thus far, but other than talking about generalities and tech specs I'm not voicing my gut feeling as I want to wait for the report.

PS; it doesn't even need to be maintenance that has loosened them. Frictions are a specific checklist item, straight from the horse's mouth (manufacturer). Both/either can slide back, not just the left (though the left is the more likely one to do so).
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Old 14th May 2018, 15:21
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Oh I hope this isn't so, that it was something as simple as a Friction Lock
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Old 14th May 2018, 15:29
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Know nothing about KingAir throttle friction nuts. Therefore showing technical ignorance here. But if its job to prevent the throttles from falling back if your hand is removed, wouldn't the pilot merely keep the two throttles up at take off power manually instead of removing his hand from there during the takeoff roll?
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Old 14th May 2018, 16:30
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Originally Posted by sheppey
Know nothing about KingAir throttle friction nuts. Therefore showing technical ignorance here. But if its job to prevent the throttles from falling back if your hand is removed, wouldn't the pilot merely keep the two throttles up at take off power manually instead of removing his hand from there during the takeoff roll?
Jepp, until he removes his hand at V1 and then raises the gear with that hand. That would be standard, I' d say...
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