The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

King Air down at Essendon?

Old 22nd Feb 2018, 13:00
  #801 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 5,250
Likes: 0
Received 157 Likes on 74 Posts
Donít know why anyone would want to fly something like a King Air without doing any sim training
Availability of suitable sims locally may be one reason. Some were going to Norway as they have the 200 sim with the necessary glass cockpit set up, now available in Maroochydore. Melbourne has a steam gauge set up and RAAF East Sale has one for their 350. Then the US of course. Last recurrent I did in the US was US$12,000 in year 2000, then airfare and accom.
megan is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2018, 20:19
  #802 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: On my V Strom
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Stickwith - "and what was that failure."

I dont know mate, but transmitting MAYDAY 9 times, are you suggesting there was no failure. My point is that there was some sort of failure, and experiencing it in the sim beats the hell out of seeing it in the aeroplane for the first time. Particularly if you are on 6 monthly sim cycles where you get to practice the failures more often and repetitively.

AND - its where you get to practice aviate, navigate, communicate - as opposed to communicate communicate communicate and obviously not doing anything else.
Trevor the lover is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2018, 22:23
  #803 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 5 Posts
It was 7 times (Mayday) over 5 seconds and do we know for sure if it was in fact the PIC and not the unfortunate passenger sitting next to him using a handheld mic
Xeptu is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2018, 22:40
  #804 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Next door to the neighbor from hell, who believes in chemtrails!
Age: 74
Posts: 1,755
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
It was 7 times (Mayday) over 5 seconds and do we know for sure if it was in fact the PIC and not the unfortunate passenger sitting next to him using a handheld mic
Do we know for sure that there was an unfortunate passenger sitting beside the PIC though?

DF.
Desert Flower is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2018, 23:09
  #805 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 5 Posts
No we don't know if anyone was sitting beside him, it's highly likely though. It's a truly bizarre event, it doesn't appear to have been under control right from the start. Looking at where it became airborne at 116kts is appears to have become airborne as a consequence of speed and configuration, never got above 160 feet, just a very shallow arc over 9 seconds to impact. It bares all the hallmarks of an incapacitation or pilot seat malfunction. There doesn't appear to have been any control inputs at all.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2018, 23:39
  #806 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vermont Hwy
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 2 Posts
Xeptu, google VP-BBK crash, have a good read of that report.
Flight path look similar?

Not saying it's the case here with ZCR, but it's an avenue I hope the investigators look at, and to be honest probably a lot more likely than your hypothesis.

If I may ask, do you currently fly or have you previously flown the B200?
Car RAMROD is offline  
Old 22nd Feb 2018, 23:46
  #807 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 5 Posts
Responded via private message
Xeptu is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2018, 07:14
  #808 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,692
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There has been a building on that location at Essendon since at least 1962 when the old DCA hangar was relocated there to serve as home for the Regional Transport Depot.
1963
Essendon Airport c.1963

2004
Essendon Airport 2004

Its a fair bit different than today and the structures closest to the runway look frangible and by virtue of the runway being shortened they are not as involved in the divergent fan area from the runway threshold. Quite a different kettle of fish.
Old Akro is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2018, 07:21
  #809 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,692
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Looks like the Mt Hotham report will come out at the same time - 2 years & 4 months after the event. March will be interesting.
Old Akro is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2018, 08:34
  #810 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 4,822
Received 93 Likes on 53 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
Responded via private message
Why wouldn’t you be declaring, here on PPRuNe, your B200 experience? Or at least your claimed experience?
Lead Balloon is online now  
Old 23rd Feb 2018, 09:05
  #811 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
Why wouldnít you be declaring, here on PPRuNe, your B200 experience? Or at least your claimed experience?
Usually PM's about accidents contain information that a friend of a friend said, that people don't like to post on here in case the friend and the friend of the friend find out.

A bit like the talk that I heard third hand that engine components were found on the grass and runway near where the lights were hit.
StickWithTheTruth is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2018, 09:10
  #812 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NNE of where I'd prefer
Age: 32
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A fair bit of mention of the development around the immediate aerodrome. I don't think the result would have been any different, buildings or not. The flight path doesn't indicate, as has been suggested elsewhere, that he could have landed on the grass adjacent to 08. Putting aside the wisdom of allowing buildings where they are, their being their is inconsequential to the outcome.
patagonianworelaud is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2018, 09:15
  #813 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 4,822
Received 93 Likes on 53 Posts
Originally Posted by StickWithTheTruth
Usually PM's about accidents contain information that a friend of a friend said, that people don't like to post on here in case the friend and the friend of the friend find out.

A bit like the talk that I heard third hand that engine components were found on the grass and runway near where the lights were hit.
I heard that components of the pilotís seat locking mechanism were found in Xeptuís pocket. Where did I hear that? When I read back that sentence.
Lead Balloon is online now  
Old 23rd Feb 2018, 09:16
  #814 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 5 Posts
well thanks for your judgement guys, My PM's don't contain anything I havn't said here in public except personal information which is no-one else's business unless I choose to share it. I believe we owe it to any pilot that can't tell us themselves to explore every possibility, no matter how unlikely.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2018, 09:20
  #815 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 4,822
Received 93 Likes on 53 Posts
I owe you an apology. You’re doing this for the benefit of the pilot.

More power to your arm.
Lead Balloon is online now  
Old 23rd Feb 2018, 10:03
  #816 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 884
Received 39 Likes on 18 Posts
Originally Posted by Old Akro
1963
Essendon Airport c.1963

2004
Essendon Airport 2004

Its a fair bit different than today and the structures closest to the runway look frangible and by virtue of the runway being shortened they are not as involved in the divergent fan area from the runway threshold. Quite a different kettle of fish.
Interesting pair of photos. You have much better eyes than mine if you can make out the type of construction of any of the buildings at end of 17, leave alone their frangibility, in the circa 1963 photo and the 2004 photo doesn't show the threshold of 35 for comparison.

Here's another page from the history of Essendon airport that is relevant;

2007

Note the following in the commentary;

In the south-eastern corner of the aerodrome, the former maintenance and stores area has been demolished (including the former Government Hangar) and replaced by a large retail shopping complex.
And what exactly is a 'divergent fan area'? The CASA Manual of Standards Part 139 - Aerodromes, Chapter 6 Physical Characteristics and Chapter 7 Design Standards for Licensed Aerodromes, are the relevant references and the concept of a fan area, divergent or otherwise, doesn't rate a mention. The DFO buildings, and the old workshops and DCA hangar before them, sit more than 200 metres off the centre line of 17 and are therefore well outside the required obstacle-free clearway.
MickG0105 is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2018, 19:11
  #817 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 4,822
Received 93 Likes on 53 Posts
...sit more than 200 metres off the centre line of 17 and are therefore well outside the required obstacle-free clearway.
Are you certain about that?
Lead Balloon is online now  
Old 23rd Feb 2018, 20:08
  #818 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 4,169
Received 38 Likes on 19 Posts
Mick... It’s not a survey admittedly, but on Google Earth shows Dan Murphys is a smidge over two runway widths from the edge of rwy 35. That’s half of 200.
compressor stall is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2018, 21:18
  #819 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Bendigo, Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
106 meters from the Centreline of Rwy 17.
DeRated is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2018, 21:32
  #820 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 884
Received 39 Likes on 18 Posts
Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
Are you certain about that?
Originally Posted by compressor stall
Mick... Itís not a survey admittedly, but on Google Earth shows Dan Murphys is a smidge over two runway widths from the edge of rwy 35. Thatís half of 200.
I guess it depends on what you call 'the DFO buildings'. For the avoidance of confusion, Perimeter Road, which runs around the boundary at that end of 17, is 100 metres off the centreline. Dan Murphy's sits just outside the Perimeter Road, so, yes, it's about 105 metres off the centreline. The closest corner of what I call 'the DFO buildings', the tilt-up construction complexes that house Nick Scali, Freedom, Spotlight, JB Hi-Fi, etc, is located about 160 metres off the centreline. ZCR's first impact was a good 250 metres off the centreline.
MickG0105 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.