You Calll Yourselves Pilots
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Got to say there was a while there where I used the old 'pending clearance' because if I didn't the controller kept coming back to me to tell me to remain octa (no sht, Sherlock) and I'd have to then reply to it - a lot of unnecessary banter.
Recently though, a departure call stating I'm climbing to a flight level in cta doesn't seem to panic the controllers as much as it used to.
Recently though, a departure call stating I'm climbing to a flight level in cta doesn't seem to panic the controllers as much as it used to.
It’s funny how on PPRuNe a pilot can be criticised in one thread for being on Area rather than 126.7, and in another thread a pilot can be criticised for being on 126.7 rather than Area.
It’s also funny that it’s OK for e.g. gliders and ultralights to punt around without transponders and without saying boo on Area or CTAF at a non-towered aerodrome, but if someone’s punting around with a transponder on it’s the end of the world if Centre can’t speak to her.
Jack: How do you know the pilot wasn’t using her single VHF to talk on 126.7 due to the vicinity of aerodromes? How do you know the aircraft’s VHF wasn’t U/S and the pilot carrying out a perfectly legal flight during which a VHF was not required to be carried?
It’s also funny that it’s OK for e.g. gliders and ultralights to punt around without transponders and without saying boo on Area or CTAF at a non-towered aerodrome, but if someone’s punting around with a transponder on it’s the end of the world if Centre can’t speak to her.
Jack: How do you know the pilot wasn’t using her single VHF to talk on 126.7 due to the vicinity of aerodromes? How do you know the aircraft’s VHF wasn’t U/S and the pilot carrying out a perfectly legal flight during which a VHF was not required to be carried?
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Creampuff, personally I don't think it's funny that ANYTHING flying at whatever level in the j curve doesn't have a transponder or radio. It's stupidity of the highest order.
Secondly, there were 2 aircraft involved in this airprox, neither of them on area OR CTAF. I only needed to speak to one of them, no cigar. One of the aircraft then flew within 1nm of a drop zone, it's published on maps. If you haven't got a radio wouldn't you think the operator would have the brains to give the drop zone a wide berth? Obviously not. No radio, no map, no common sense.
It may just be the end of the world for one or both of them next time.
Secondly, there were 2 aircraft involved in this airprox, neither of them on area OR CTAF. I only needed to speak to one of them, no cigar. One of the aircraft then flew within 1nm of a drop zone, it's published on maps. If you haven't got a radio wouldn't you think the operator would have the brains to give the drop zone a wide berth? Obviously not. No radio, no map, no common sense.
It may just be the end of the world for one or both of them next time.
JR have you never turned down the wrong street buddy? Being a pilot doesn't mean that it will never happen my good friend on the other end of the mickeyphone
OH BTW tell yr HB TWR buddy to relax, I mean you would think I came to his house raped his wife & drank all his bear, the latter an unmentionable act
Wmk2
OH BTW tell yr HB TWR buddy to relax, I mean you would think I came to his house raped his wife & drank all his bear, the latter an unmentionable act
Wmk2
Last edited by Wally Mk2; 24th Feb 2014 at 07:38. Reason: pour speeling:-)
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What grinds my gears...
What really s#!t$ me is around an airport, YSBK, for example, and it's busy, nobody thinks when they are listening to the radio, eg, that controller just asked that guy a question, and is expecting an answer, so I'll wait before making my call... No no... As soon as someone stops transmitting, I'll just transmit, everyone else can go f&@k themselves, or, over transmit, cos I have no idea and no situational awareness.
Returning to couch for a nap...
Returning to couch for a nap...
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i have noticed recently at Bankstown, the number of IFR aircraft requesting taxi on arrival. cant you just wait and get your taxi clearance after you exit the runway like everyone else?
Originally Posted by Wally
drank all his bear, the latter an unmentionable act
as for this:
I hope none of you guys go fly in the States where phraseology is made up mainly of common sense, something that isn't practiced often here in 'worlds best practice' country & I use that term loosely!.
There wouldn't be a pilot out there whom does it perfectly every time, not even me
People break the rules everyday on our roads, in the air & in society in general, regs & rules are there to have a base in which to work from, nobody knows them all & nobody practices them ALL the time ATC included!
We are human, we make mistakes for all sorts of reasons.
Going by the book guarantees nothing it might give you the best chance but that's about all.
SOP's are designed so everyone is working from the same slate, trouble is it's humans doing the working so SOP's are more "Sample Operating Procedures". Learning is the key word.
There wouldn't be a pilot out there whom does it perfectly every time, not even me
People break the rules everyday on our roads, in the air & in society in general, regs & rules are there to have a base in which to work from, nobody knows them all & nobody practices them ALL the time ATC included!
We are human, we make mistakes for all sorts of reasons.
Going by the book guarantees nothing it might give you the best chance but that's about all.
SOP's are designed so everyone is working from the same slate, trouble is it's humans doing the working so SOP's are more "Sample Operating Procedures". Learning is the key word.
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Dumb as dogsh!t. And that's being generous.
By any measure, Australia has a very significant majority of professional, competent, capable pilots in it's aviation work force, able to debate professionally and in an appropriate manner.
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Tailwheel, it's not the 'professional' pilots Jack is giving a razz to, it's the ever increasing number (and believe me, from this side of the table the number IS increasing...although that may not be as obvious from confined sterile environment of a cockpit..) of irresponsible pilots who either can't, or even worse wont, conform to the rules governing the privilege of flight in this country.
Yes regs change, yes CASA continue to make a balls-up of just about everything; yes, it is very different to how it was 30 years ago. So fkn what? When I was a kid we used to all bail around on long trips in the back of a station wagon, no seat belts, no restraints whatsoever. And it was legal. Do I do it now just because I could do it then and I don't agree with the change in law? I could, I suppose, but then I would just be a law unto myself, thumbing my nose at the authorities because I think I know better and 'it can't happen to me'
There are some pilots on here who seem to think that the rules are optional, or can be applied depending on personal preference. Go for it, I just pray that it ends only in a 'single aircraft' accident.
Yes regs change, yes CASA continue to make a balls-up of just about everything; yes, it is very different to how it was 30 years ago. So fkn what? When I was a kid we used to all bail around on long trips in the back of a station wagon, no seat belts, no restraints whatsoever. And it was legal. Do I do it now just because I could do it then and I don't agree with the change in law? I could, I suppose, but then I would just be a law unto myself, thumbing my nose at the authorities because I think I know better and 'it can't happen to me'
There are some pilots on here who seem to think that the rules are optional, or can be applied depending on personal preference. Go for it, I just pray that it ends only in a 'single aircraft' accident.
To a hammer, every problem is a nail …
Jack, you seem to have quite a bit of experience. Haven’t you been to busy aerodromes at and in the vicinity of which the carriage of VHF is not compulsory, and there are ultralights buzzing around, parachutists dropping in, a tourist charter operator flogging in and out the occasional RFDS aircraft passing through? Continuous ‘AIRPROX’ is SOP, yet the sky hasn’t fallen in.
During those tedious AFRs the ATOs tend to emphasise the fact that pilots must keep a lookout, because although alerted see and avoid is much more effective than un-alerted see and avoid, there are lots of people flying around, perfectly legally, without radio, and they have been for decades.
If you want VHF carriage and use mandated for any aircraft operating anywhere in the ‘J’ curve, go your hardest. But it would have to be all or nothing: gliders; ultralights; balloons; anything in the air with a human on board. No ‘favours’ for sectional interests.
And can we get one fact clear: Were these terribly irresponsible pilots operating in an area in which the carriage and use of VHF is compulsory? Yes or no.
Not your opinion on whether it’s a good or bad idea; just a yes or no.
Jack, you seem to have quite a bit of experience. Haven’t you been to busy aerodromes at and in the vicinity of which the carriage of VHF is not compulsory, and there are ultralights buzzing around, parachutists dropping in, a tourist charter operator flogging in and out the occasional RFDS aircraft passing through? Continuous ‘AIRPROX’ is SOP, yet the sky hasn’t fallen in.
During those tedious AFRs the ATOs tend to emphasise the fact that pilots must keep a lookout, because although alerted see and avoid is much more effective than un-alerted see and avoid, there are lots of people flying around, perfectly legally, without radio, and they have been for decades.
If you want VHF carriage and use mandated for any aircraft operating anywhere in the ‘J’ curve, go your hardest. But it would have to be all or nothing: gliders; ultralights; balloons; anything in the air with a human on board. No ‘favours’ for sectional interests.
And can we get one fact clear: Were these terribly irresponsible pilots operating in an area in which the carriage and use of VHF is compulsory? Yes or no.
Not your opinion on whether it’s a good or bad idea; just a yes or no.
Creampuff, too many people take advantage of the fact that something isn't "Compulsory", sticking to the bare minimum gives you the bare minimum of safety as well.
Gliders and Ultralights, they might not necessarily REQUIRE one but for $200 or so you can buy yourself a handheld VHF and at least listen in, buy a map for a few quid as well so you know what to listen in on. Just because you don't HAVE TO, doesn't mean it isn't a bloody good idea. Problem is it seems to require that little bit of extra effort people can't be bothered putting in.
If you're in something larger then you really should have a VHF radio installed, 2 preferably or one that allows you to monitor a standby frequency as well, it's not difficult, it is a little expensive, but personally if it can save my life and possibly the lives of those around me I'll probably forego a few nights out and set aside a little extra for some extra equipment.
Of course there are limits to this argument, obviously we're not all going to be able to afford to install a couple of top notch GPS, Weather Radar, EGPWS, TAWS etc...etc... but just a few simple items like a handhelp GPS and a VHF radio shouldn't be too far out of reach for most people.
Gliders and Ultralights, they might not necessarily REQUIRE one but for $200 or so you can buy yourself a handheld VHF and at least listen in, buy a map for a few quid as well so you know what to listen in on. Just because you don't HAVE TO, doesn't mean it isn't a bloody good idea. Problem is it seems to require that little bit of extra effort people can't be bothered putting in.
If you're in something larger then you really should have a VHF radio installed, 2 preferably or one that allows you to monitor a standby frequency as well, it's not difficult, it is a little expensive, but personally if it can save my life and possibly the lives of those around me I'll probably forego a few nights out and set aside a little extra for some extra equipment.
Of course there are limits to this argument, obviously we're not all going to be able to afford to install a couple of top notch GPS, Weather Radar, EGPWS, TAWS etc...etc... but just a few simple items like a handhelp GPS and a VHF radio shouldn't be too far out of reach for most people.
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G'day Tailwheel, I'm a bit of a knockabout bloke, I express myself a little differently to your more favoured clientele. You have a group of people (some would call them dobbers) that would like this forum conducted in some sort of queens English, RAAF etiquette, book club manner. They don't own this forum. And I don't recall reading this as a condition of membership of this site?
I conduct myself at work with the professionalism that is required from me, I haven't ever had a complaint in 25 years on the 50 contextual reports that have been done on me. I've received several letters thanking me for the service I've provided. I conduct myself differently at the pub, when I'm camping, when I'm in formal situations or when I'm lying around in my jocks at home.
Any judgement of me that you or your mates make, I couldn't give a rats toss bag
honestly. I don't sweat or have panic attacks hoping that people like me.
So if you or your silent brotherhood want to ban me permanently go for it and I promise I won't register in a new identity your forum used to be a non PC, knockabout kind of place to discuss real issues, real pilots, now? Whatever, your train set, do with it what you like. Most of the people can see the humour in my posts, you & your secret etiquette police obviously don't 
I conduct myself at work with the professionalism that is required from me, I haven't ever had a complaint in 25 years on the 50 contextual reports that have been done on me. I've received several letters thanking me for the service I've provided. I conduct myself differently at the pub, when I'm camping, when I'm in formal situations or when I'm lying around in my jocks at home.
Any judgement of me that you or your mates make, I couldn't give a rats toss bag
honestly. I don't sweat or have panic attacks hoping that people like me. So if you or your silent brotherhood want to ban me permanently go for it
and I promise I won't register in a new identity your forum used to be a non PC, knockabout kind of place to discuss real issues, real pilots, now? Whatever, your train set, do with it what you like. Most of the people can see the humour in my posts, you & your secret etiquette police obviously don't
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Creamy, I'm 25 years ATC, about 28 years pilot, ME-CIR, Turbine, Instructor etc. I've been about the traps a bit. I fly a turbine as a drop pilot on some days off. I've had a fair bit of experience from BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE. I can see most points of view. I'm one of the few people who doesn't 'not like a person because they have a contrary point of view'
I don't know whether one of the aircraft concerned were required to have a radio or not, one was required to, he was un contactable.
My point stands though, if you're not required to have a radio wouldn't you think this aircraft would have the brains to remain clear of a drop zone by a few miles? Dumb as dogsh!t (not at work, personal opinion only)
I don't know whether one of the aircraft concerned were required to have a radio or not, one was required to, he was un contactable.
My point stands though, if you're not required to have a radio wouldn't you think this aircraft would have the brains to remain clear of a drop zone by a few miles? Dumb as dogsh!t (not at work, personal opinion only)
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In a welcome change, nobody has blamed RA-Aus yet
It is a collective group problem.
I could tell the story of how a good mate was almost killed 3 miles from touchdown in IMC conditions (BKN 0100) on the ILS to Willy town, to be confunted by a drifter(or similar) surfing around in the gaps between the CU and such, and not listening to the CTAF obviously.
The fact that his F/O saw it, and the 170 punters in the back had no idea how close they came, nor the folk on the ground who could have had a 737 drop in .....
Had this idiot not been about 3 seconds later, he would have caused a tragic mess.
Ballina is a classic case. The operators of B737 and most likely A320's into there love it when the weather is down to the minima......less likely to hit a big bug.
Creamie, sadly there are vastly varying standards around the country. One airfield that you know, and sounds similar to your description has few problems, because the air prox definition is life in the CTAF area. They are mostly well behaved and courteous. Other places are not so good.
All good stuff that leads back to the same point: If you want VHF carriage and use mandated for any aircraft operating anywhere in the ‘J’ curve, go your hardest. But it would have to be all or nothing: gliders; ultralights; balloons; anything in the air with a human on board.
No ‘favours’ for sectional interests.
No ‘favours’ for sectional interests.
"JR" don't let the Mods get to you buddy responding to them like that only feeds them it's a power trip for them, you know people with some low level of authority as we know so we still luvs ya
There's always gunna be a lot of personal attacks on an individual here as some really are nasty angry PPruners:-0)
Wmk2
There's always gunna be a lot of personal attacks on an individual here as some really are nasty angry PPruners:-0)
Wmk2
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Wally, we've really got to catch up then you can give pprune land a status report, I ain't angry, upset, worked up, p!ssed off etc they don't get to me at all mate, lol
then you can give pprune land a status report, I ain't angry, upset, worked up, p!ssed off etc they don't get to me at all mate, lol