You Calll Yourselves Pilots
And guys, if I'm mentioning you're squawking a code other 1200 when broadcasting traffic info it's not because I'm cranky about it. I couldn't care less. It's to get your attention so you'll know it's you who is about to have a bloody big bird strike from the 1200 code coming the other way at the same level!
It's not pleasant watching a pair of returns merge at the same level.
It's not pleasant watching a pair of returns merge at the same level.
do you hear the 'request traffic & code' calls in WA?
The pilots ordering "IFR taxis" are rife, as well... I thought they were in a 'plane; why would they want a taxi?
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um, if it happened would it hurt if I pointed out that you wouldn't be the first air traffic controllers in australia who were retired due to medical psychiatric problems.
don't let the job send you nuts guys.
don't let the job send you nuts guys.
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Jack
G'day dj, I'm only asking that VFR listen out on the area frequency! That's all it takes to avoid these situations. It's not much fun watching radar paints point at each other, merge..........and wait for them to come out the other side. Neither of them monitoring, really, how hard is it to look at a map?
How do you propose we do this and meet the requirement to be on CTAF within 10 miles of the airfield with only one radio?
How do you propose we do this and meet the requirement to be on CTAF within 10 miles of the airfield with only one radio?
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Fujii, the non-skydive aircraft was NOT on CTAF. There were 2 PJE aircraft operating one of them was a couple of minutes away from drop. I asked him if the VFR was contactable on CTAF? Negative.
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Jack, makeithappencaptain
You have hit the nail on the head. The standards are disgusting. I have recently flown with guys with a thousands hours of bad habits.... And it's getting worse.
Radio calls are lacking professionalism, and even worse not even getting the correct information across, causing unnecessary calls to clarify information, blocking an already busy center controller.
Where did "pending clearance" come from?? Of course your pending clearance - you're not exactly going to blast off into controlled airspace without a clearance.
Just report your intended cruising level and await clearance OCTA. Someone made up a cool phrase, and now they are all using it.
Radio calls are lacking professionalism, and even worse not even getting the correct information across, causing unnecessary calls to clarify information, blocking an already busy center controller.
Where did "pending clearance" come from?? Of course your pending clearance - you're not exactly going to blast off into controlled airspace without a clearance.
Just report your intended cruising level and await clearance OCTA. Someone made up a cool phrase, and now they are all using it.
The standards continue to drop because the good instructors leave the trade just as they become effective.
The bad ones stay in the game cos they can't get a job elsewhere, and there are a multitude of grade threes who are on a road to the big'n'shinys who don't give a ****.
Comes back to bite them when they're dodging around muppetts playing around in the flight levels without an xponder or clearance or even a listen out.. Perhaps then they wonder if it woulda helped if they'd done a better job.
Nah probably not...
The bad ones stay in the game cos they can't get a job elsewhere, and there are a multitude of grade threes who are on a road to the big'n'shinys who don't give a ****.
Comes back to bite them when they're dodging around muppetts playing around in the flight levels without an xponder or clearance or even a listen out.. Perhaps then they wonder if it woulda helped if they'd done a better job.
Nah probably not...
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Yesterday I watched a Victa Airtourer fly into Tooradin from Lilydale presumably with instructor and student on board. They did two circuits and then climbed out on downwind for 22 and departed overhead to the north.
The ERSA entry clearly says to not overfly to the north of the runway and specifically mentions PJE to the north.
I wonder if they didn't read this in ERSA or whether they did this departure anyway because they figured that the jumpship was on the ground. The ERSA entry makes no mention of being cleared to overfly to the north when parachuting is not in progress.
The ERSA entry clearly says to not overfly to the north of the runway and specifically mentions PJE to the north.
I wonder if they didn't read this in ERSA or whether they did this departure anyway because they figured that the jumpship was on the ground. The ERSA entry makes no mention of being cleared to overfly to the north when parachuting is not in progress.
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Air Ambulance aircraft in taxi calls requesting traffic & code, no mention of runway or POB.
Of course this was back in the full reporting days!
The IFR taxi call OCTA on area should be treated as a broadcast to local traffic as well as a report to ATS. Especially if you don't have ATS on the ground it's even more important to broadcast in case any inbound traffic is in close proximity it will alert them to your presence. Omitting things such as location, runway in use and destination/basic direction of departure just leads to confusion and extra radio traffic to clear it up. Asking for traffic and codes is a waste of breath and serves no purpose, as much as saying pending clearance.
How much effort does it take to wait and listen one or two seconds before transmitting to avoid frequency blocking.
How much effort does it take to wait and listen one or two seconds before transmitting to avoid frequency blocking.
I hope none of you guys go fly in the States where phraseology is made up mainly of common sense, something that isn't practiced often here in 'worlds best practice' country & I use that term loosely!.
There wouldn't be a pilot out there whom does it perfectly every time, not even me
People break the rules everyday on our roads, in the air & in society in general, regs & rules are there to have a base in which to work from, nobody knows them all & nobody practices them ALL the time ATC included!
We are human, we make mistakes for all sorts of reasons.
Going by the book guarantees nothing it might give you the best chance but that's about all.
SOP's are designed so everyone is working from the same slate, trouble is it's humans doing the working so SOP's are more "Sample Operating Procedures". Learning is the key word.
I feel for you 'JR' but don't let it get to you like that, most of us do our best & that's all you can hope for
Wmk2
There wouldn't be a pilot out there whom does it perfectly every time, not even me
People break the rules everyday on our roads, in the air & in society in general, regs & rules are there to have a base in which to work from, nobody knows them all & nobody practices them ALL the time ATC included!
We are human, we make mistakes for all sorts of reasons.
Going by the book guarantees nothing it might give you the best chance but that's about all.
SOP's are designed so everyone is working from the same slate, trouble is it's humans doing the working so SOP's are more "Sample Operating Procedures". Learning is the key word.
I feel for you 'JR' but don't let it get to you like that, most of us do our best & that's all you can hope for
Wmk2
Last edited by Wally Mk2; 23rd Feb 2014 at 23:37.
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Wal, I'm not:
angry
upset
anxious
losing the plot mentally
In the end it's not my arse on the line (although it is when I go flying!)
There is a time and place for standard & non standard speak
angry
upset
anxious
losing the plot mentally
In the end it's not my arse on the line (although it is when I go flying!)
There is a time and place for standard & non standard speak
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I agree with you Jack.
But while we're on it, can you ask your tower mates to stop asking me if I'm "ready immediate" after I've called "ready"? If I've called "ready" I'm ready!
Meanwhile I'll ask my mates to stop saying "ready in turn"...
But while we're on it, can you ask your tower mates to stop asking me if I'm "ready immediate" after I've called "ready"? If I've called "ready" I'm ready!
Meanwhile I'll ask my mates to stop saying "ready in turn"...
Perhaps their only VHF was tuned to the ‘low level area frequency’ of 126.7, having been chased off Area by grumpy ATCers and skygods …
Or perhaps they weren't obliged to carry and use VHF ...
Or perhaps they weren't obliged to carry and use VHF ...
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Derfred, I don't know anything about tower they've probably been burnt by aircraft saying they are ready then sitting on the runway while they twiddle knobs, 15 seconds is a loooong time in ATC land!
Creampuff, I work the low level sectors, the frequency they should have been on. So where would the no radio requirement be that specifies they have a transponder (it was sqwarking)
they've probably been burnt by aircraft saying they are ready then sitting on the runway while they twiddle knobs, 15 seconds is a loooong time in ATC land!Creampuff, I work the low level sectors, the frequency they should have been on. So where would the no radio requirement be that specifies they have a transponder (it was sqwarking)
Just because they have a transponder and switch it on does not mean they were obliged to have a serviceable VHF. Were they below 5,000', outside A, C, D and E, and away from a towered aerodrome?
What do you do about all the gliders with no transponder or VHF on Area?
What do you do about all the gliders with no transponder or VHF on Area?
Got to say there was a while there where I used the old 'pending clearance' because if I didn't the controller kept coming back to me to tell me to remain octa (no sht, Sherlock) and I'd have to then reply to it - a lot of unnecessary banter.
Recently though, a departure call stating I'm climbing to a flight level in cta doesn't seem to panic the controllers as much as it used to.
Recently though, a departure call stating I'm climbing to a flight level in cta doesn't seem to panic the controllers as much as it used to.