You Calll Yourselves Pilots

[Jack Ranga]

bodybag, whatev's mate make your concerns known to the appropriate authorities and they'll be dealt with.

Jab, do you reckon I'm pretentious?

[Jack Ranga]

The rookie, the first one? Where did it happen? Were you on radar? The second one, different controllers use different techniques, it's up to the controller to judge traffic alerts/broadcasts. The traffic I deal with can be in very concentrated areas. A broadcast may be the quickest warning the controller can get out there.

[bodybag]

Yeah.. Whatevs
1st skygod I've ever come across that sits in an office all day. Good luck to ya

[Awol57]

Bodybag, you're welcome to come along and show us how to do it, within the existing rules of course.

[mcgrath50]

Hey JR, I've given you a few days, when are you going to post those PM questions? After all we all work in aviation so we are over paid and underworked, surely you have had time by now

[le Pingouin]

rookie, it very much depends on us noticing. My primary task is separating aircraft, something I'm doing on a screen that's somewhere between 180 and 320NM across (depending on the sectors I'm controlling). On a nice day the screen is also covered in 1200 SSR returns, many in close proximity with overlapping labels. Seriously it looks like a fly screen covered in blowies. No disrespect intended but 1200 symbols are black, have "wings" and can be bloody distracting.

The system gives us no assistance (if nothing else because we'd be overwhelmed by spurious alarms) so we just have to be as vigilant as we can and call it as we see it. My attention will always be focussed on separating traffic, so if I have plenty to occupy me there then trying to spot two random VFR paints converging will come a poor second.

[Fantome]

that your primary aim is to keep those dots apart is really pleasing to know

for those of us who are keeping the old mark one eyeballs forever on the job
or stooging about in the murk , fingers crossed

truly . . I take my hat off to you . .. .. a particularly specialist job . . as oft has been said

back on thread . . . is Jack pretentious?

balls! the dry humour is a dead give away

is there anybody with strong opinions who expresses them articulately and often who does not get up the nose of another of a similar disposition . . . now and again?

long long ago I learned to live with all sorts of derogatory remarks and later to just ignore them .. . . . silly to rise to the bait

"YOU FOOL!!!" . . . . "coming from you, I'm comfortable with that"

yours sincerely

PLP (presumptuous little prick)


(On the BBC show frankly I haven't a clue . .. .pretentious was once defined as - camping under the stars. And dyslexia as--
inability to load a dishwasher)

[Jack Ranga]

bodybag, they're 7 to 8 hour shifts, starting from 6am so it's generally a bit over half a day sitting in the office depending on daylight savings of course

[Jack Ranga]

Mate, I have actually been busy

1- Out of MB to the south do you want level passing and level planned, some say no. I say yes because of identification purposes

When the tower is present, you will have gotten your sqwark code from them on completion of your runups. If the tower is not there you would have gotten your sqwark code from ML Centre on your taxy call. The radar coverage in the MB area is virtually to the ground.

ML Centre will do what's called co-ordinating your flight plan when you give your taxy call. the flight strip will sit doormant waiting for you to depart. At this stage the timer will be set for 10 mins, an alarm will go off on the controllers screen if you haven't reported and they will then chase you up.

As soon as you depart the TAAATS system will see you on the code and attach a label to the secondary radar return. The controller will pretty much see you straight away.

'ML Centre, ABC departed MB, tracking to intercept outbound track xxx, passing 1200' on climb A070'


So yes, report your level passing because you will be on radar and it saves the controller asking you to verify level. This ATC can be quite busy, succinct radio calls make their life a stack easeir.

2- getting hand balled to 35.7 going to MB again upon 'hello' do you want level passing and in flight conditions?

Level: If you are already identified no, just the level you are on descent to or have been assigned.

Inflight Conditions: Yes, it tells the controller whether you need to continue an instrument approach or can get into the zone in VMC. The ML Centre ATC will know whether instrument approaches are required as MB will be updating them.

3- why over the stait, Camus, fliki and Audra are we sometimes identified at 9k and other times not. Are you selective and sometime just can't be bothered?

It can be atmospheric, coverage may vary and you may be on the edge of it. Your transponder may be blinking indicating that your transponder is being interrogated by the radar but it doesn't necessarily mean you are identified. If you are on radar they will identify you, if you drop off they will terminate your identification.

4- are you annoyed by to 'cya' upon frequency change.

I'm not, can't speak for others, personally I always say g'day I've got quite a few mates on the other side of the radio!!

5- what sort of lateral tolerance off track OCTA and in CTA will you allow before you say
"LCE where the fk are you going"

We will not wait till the alarm goes off to tell you. This sort of thing happens all the time with GA, not so much with the RPT. Personally I'll tell you when it gets to a mile or so, I'll also tell you if there's convergence/divergence, I'm not chipping you when I do this, I'm just letting you know so that 1. You're aware that whatever you're navigating with may be erroneous (obviously you have to take into account the limitations of the aid). 2. You can correct it.

Note: I'm talking OCTA here. If you are in controlled airspace, the controller may be twitchy! The could be other traffic around and the ATC's separation standard relies on you being on track.

6-

Deleted due boy talk

Sorry about the number 6 but I thought I had to ask!

[the_rookie]

Thanks pinguin for clearing that up. Must be one big headache

[Jabawocky]

JR.....thats a big word.

I think bodybag knows little of where he treads. Because you have very little experience as an ATC, very little experience in S/E piston, and very little experience in multi engine commercial ops, and for that matter what would you know about turbines either?

Mate.....It is lucky my experience in aviation amounts to about what you have forgotten, otherwise I would be in trouble next

Great thread and I am sure lots of folk are learning something.

[mcgrath50]

Thanks JR and the other ATC contributing here.

[Jack Ranga]

I've got more there, I'll keep posting them

[AvEnthusiast]

Oh thank God you are not in Afghanistan! They all call themselves pilots, but they are really babies even outside flying hours as well.

[Jack Ranga]

I've just moved onto IFR twins, previously VFR mustering so radio calls weren't used much, When I'm coming in let's say from xxx where I'm based to Townsville, Would it be prudent to advise the controller that I'm at TOD (Brisbane control CUY is approaching TOD for Townsville, request descent)..? Assuming I was tracking for an ILS. Or would it be unnecessary? Every pilot I've asked has differing opinions on this but thought you might have the definitive answer.

I know I should have it under my belt but that one phase has me stumped atm.

After clarifying what this dood mean't, he's asking how he should phrase the clearance request when his TOD of descent is OCTA.

Warning: Townsville is RAAF, I'm not sure how they process this or what CO-ORD takes place between BN sectors & Townsville.

This is how I process this with a Procedural tower in my airspace:

* Your estimate is given to the Tower by me, depending on the sector boundaries this can take place before you are on my frequency.

Just say the base of CTA is A085 and you are at A090, your TOD is 35nm but the Tower Control Zone boundary is 15nm (Ground to A045). Your descent profile will take you OCTA then back into CTR.

* I will co-ordinate your TOD with the tower in subsequent co-ord.
* The tower will issue me with a level to issue to you.
* This level will NOT be below track LSALT or Grid LSALT unless you have reported visual & the tower knows you will stay visual.

My phraseology to you will be somewhere along the lines of:

'CUY, cleared to leave and re-enter controlled airspace on descent to A050, no reported IFR traffic OCTA'

Just say the base of CTA is A090 and you are at A070, your TOD of descent is 25nm but the Tower Control Zone boundary is 15nm (Ground to A045). Your TOD is OCTA and you will be on descent entering CTR.

* The tower will have your estimate and cruise level. If I'm pro-active (I try to be ) I will have asked you for your TOD and I would co-ordinate it with the Tower.
* The Tower will either issue me a level to issue to you and I will issue a clearance to you on their behalf OR they will tell me to tell you to expect a clearance on descent to A050 (The same descent rules apply).

If it's my clearance on behalf of the Tower:

'CUY clearance, enter control area on descent to A050, tracking xxx to xxx, no reported IFR traffic OCTA'

If it's the Tower's clearance:

'CUY, expect a clearance on descent to A050, no reported IFR traffic OCTA, contact xx Tower on 123.45, hoo-roo'

In this case I will transfer you well before TOD.

AIP tells you to give a 2 min prior to TOD call, one of the reasons for this is to give me 2 mins to assess traffic (if I haven't already, but probably have) It also allows me to co-ordinate with the Tower (if I haven't been proactive or I've been busy )

Other units may process the above differently