Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA
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Maybe some of that money should also be spent looking after the largely forgotten non Qantas members who have been quietly propping up your fight.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: On the chopping board.
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Effective immediately all industrial action will stop and LAME’s should resume work in accordance with normal practice.
The last few months have been a tremendous learning curve, seeing the true colours of our managers. Maintain the rage.
Last edited by Ngineer; 19th Jul 2008 at 11:02.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Apology From A Frustrated Lame
Steve (and the rest of the negotiating committee),
I sincerely apologize for my outburst yesterday.
I would not be in your shoes for all the tea in China.
You have stood up to the QF machine with amazing vigour and enthusiasm.
I, and every other member of this Association are feeling very proud of you and our negotiators.
BUT, you must realise, that to get into a position on a Friday close of business where our PIA is cancelled with no details of outcome is extremely frustrating for members.
You know how the grapevine works within Qantas.
Rumours are rife at the moment.
The PIA should have stayed on until a document was produced which allowed our members to decide if we should vote one way or the other.
I truly believe that the issue should have gone to a vote after the first report back meetings.
GD would then, not have been able to slag you and the executive for reneging on a (supposed) “Agreement in Principle.”
Hindsight is such a wonderful thing, is it not.
At least this time, we will be able to respond to the powers that be, that we are totally over being pushed from pillar to post, and if the deal is not acceptable they will have some knowledge of what 51% of the members will accept.
Is that not what their game is about.
All of us are extremely concerned that QF have used stalling tactics on us AGAIN.
The fact is, that if this does not get up, we will have to reapply for PIA AGAIN.
If we do, I hope that escalation comes quickly and puts this business to rest.
Listening to GD’s comments about how the "Agreements In Principle" with the Pilots and LAMES are virtually sealed, and over with, just makes me want to put my fingers down my throat and send it to him OCS.
We are all hoping for a good outcome on Monday and I just hope that the inability to use our years of service points has been addressed.
My apologies again.
I sincerely apologize for my outburst yesterday.
I would not be in your shoes for all the tea in China.
You have stood up to the QF machine with amazing vigour and enthusiasm.
I, and every other member of this Association are feeling very proud of you and our negotiators.
BUT, you must realise, that to get into a position on a Friday close of business where our PIA is cancelled with no details of outcome is extremely frustrating for members.
You know how the grapevine works within Qantas.
Rumours are rife at the moment.
The PIA should have stayed on until a document was produced which allowed our members to decide if we should vote one way or the other.
I truly believe that the issue should have gone to a vote after the first report back meetings.
GD would then, not have been able to slag you and the executive for reneging on a (supposed) “Agreement in Principle.”
Hindsight is such a wonderful thing, is it not.
At least this time, we will be able to respond to the powers that be, that we are totally over being pushed from pillar to post, and if the deal is not acceptable they will have some knowledge of what 51% of the members will accept.
Is that not what their game is about.
All of us are extremely concerned that QF have used stalling tactics on us AGAIN.
The fact is, that if this does not get up, we will have to reapply for PIA AGAIN.
If we do, I hope that escalation comes quickly and puts this business to rest.
Listening to GD’s comments about how the "Agreements In Principle" with the Pilots and LAMES are virtually sealed, and over with, just makes me want to put my fingers down my throat and send it to him OCS.
We are all hoping for a good outcome on Monday and I just hope that the inability to use our years of service points has been addressed.
My apologies again.
Last edited by Take five; 19th Jul 2008 at 09:51. Reason: Too Much Waffling
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Policy manual
I have just gotten hold of an old Blue Book from the days of T.A.A. and I read with fascination the Foreword and would like to share it with you...........and hopefully the people at the top of the tree:
TAA
DATE: 18/10/60 PAGE: 1 of 1
1.The Maintenance of Aircraft is a task calling for the highest standards of skill and integrity on the part of those whose responsibility it is to maintain them and it is on the skill and integrity of our maintenance that we build our reputation as an Airline.
2.Whatever the job may be, no matter how trivial, it must be given our undivided attention; no job should be cleared unless we are absolutely satisfied that the standard is of the highest, a few more minutes or seconds in making certain may mean the difference between a serviceable or unserviceable aircraft.
3.The most critical period, the period during which we are under stress, passengers waiting, scheduled departure time past, this is the time when our judgment could be impaired, and it is the time when the utmost vigilance is necessary to prevent an error of judgment and to be certain that the job is right.
4.We have built for ourselves a reputation second to none for efficient, safe transport; we can only retain that reputation if we exercise constant vigilance in our approach to the various tasks we are called upon to perform from time to time and we must –
BE PROUD - ONLY OF THE BEST.
Might be nearly 50 years old, but still rings true and it's what the travelling public would want to hear.
TAA
DATE: 18/10/60 PAGE: 1 of 1
GENERAL - VOLUME 1
F O R E W O R D
2.Whatever the job may be, no matter how trivial, it must be given our undivided attention; no job should be cleared unless we are absolutely satisfied that the standard is of the highest, a few more minutes or seconds in making certain may mean the difference between a serviceable or unserviceable aircraft.
3.The most critical period, the period during which we are under stress, passengers waiting, scheduled departure time past, this is the time when our judgment could be impaired, and it is the time when the utmost vigilance is necessary to prevent an error of judgment and to be certain that the job is right.
4.We have built for ourselves a reputation second to none for efficient, safe transport; we can only retain that reputation if we exercise constant vigilance in our approach to the various tasks we are called upon to perform from time to time and we must –
BE PROUD - ONLY OF THE BEST.
Might be nearly 50 years old, but still rings true and it's what the travelling public would want to hear.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Gents, sitting by the river bank .. waiting patiently .. nothing floating by, yet.
need soldiers to go up stream and do some dirty work
I believe the team will have got us the best result posible, roll on monday
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Gents, sitting by the river bank .. waiting patiently .. nothing floating by, yet.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Skating away on the thin ice of a new day.
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message of thanks, no matter what the number is.
To Steve and the negotiating team, a huge thankyou for the amazing efforts you have put in over an extended period.
A major part of the success in runnning a tight, smart campaign is fast and effective communications and to that end you have been fantastic.
Hardly put a foot wrong.
I wont comment on what numbers may or not be in the offer but given you guys have agreed to put it to us must mean its close to being on the money.
As long as its close to that number and its fair for all not the usual divide and conquer bulldust it may get over the line.A lot of bad blood out there lads.
I look fwd to Monday or when the fineprint is forensically examined.
I trust you guys to have done the right thing and made it abundantly clear to these clowns that IF they dick us around again there will be no holding back.
My gut feeling is the guys would rather shut the airline down than fold for these awful people.
A special thanks to those "managers' for bringing us together like I never thought I'd see and exposing the scum amongst us.Outstanding effort ,bravo!
Set back labour relations 30 years , galvanised the work force, lost tens millions of dollars,sullied the Qantas brand like nobody else has managed, alienated your otherwise loyal staff , shafted and told porkies to thousands of loyal passengers.
Sounds dumb making such a comment, but pushing a normally timid animal into a corner and prodding it with a big stick can produce a nasty, snarling creature with more spine and fight than you could imagine.
A major part of the success in runnning a tight, smart campaign is fast and effective communications and to that end you have been fantastic.
Hardly put a foot wrong.
I wont comment on what numbers may or not be in the offer but given you guys have agreed to put it to us must mean its close to being on the money.
As long as its close to that number and its fair for all not the usual divide and conquer bulldust it may get over the line.A lot of bad blood out there lads.
I look fwd to Monday or when the fineprint is forensically examined.
I trust you guys to have done the right thing and made it abundantly clear to these clowns that IF they dick us around again there will be no holding back.
My gut feeling is the guys would rather shut the airline down than fold for these awful people.
A special thanks to those "managers' for bringing us together like I never thought I'd see and exposing the scum amongst us.Outstanding effort ,bravo!
Set back labour relations 30 years , galvanised the work force, lost tens millions of dollars,sullied the Qantas brand like nobody else has managed, alienated your otherwise loyal staff , shafted and told porkies to thousands of loyal passengers.
Sounds dumb making such a comment, but pushing a normally timid animal into a corner and prodding it with a big stick can produce a nasty, snarling creature with more spine and fight than you could imagine.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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What happened to the posts of "It better be 5% nothing less".
Way to hit them with a wet lettuce guys! Destroying families holiday's, costing the economy millions...
Quite amusing watching the defeated tell themselves they did well.
Y'all got whipped. Y'all know it. If you want confirmation then don't bother responding to me, just look back about 50-80 pages at the posts.
Y'All got whipped. Even SP said it... if you think you could have done better then do your best, prove you can do better and he'll resign. I've never heard those words come from the mouths of a winner.
Can't remember any victory speech saying "If you think you could have done better"...
After all that, I'd like to see: How much did you cost the Australian Economy vs. what you gained in wages.
I'll bet you my next years salary that you cost a sh*t load more to the Australian economy (not even including what you cost QANTAS) than you got back in your "deal".
Thanks for the damage you selfish guys.
This has highlighted the guys who still live with 30 year old ideals - the union - it's the only way they exist. Dinosaurs in a modern age. What's funny is that you pay dues and you get 3%...
If you took that when first offered what would you wage be today?
Way to hit them with a wet lettuce guys! Destroying families holiday's, costing the economy millions...
Quite amusing watching the defeated tell themselves they did well.
Y'all got whipped. Y'all know it. If you want confirmation then don't bother responding to me, just look back about 50-80 pages at the posts.
Y'All got whipped. Even SP said it... if you think you could have done better then do your best, prove you can do better and he'll resign. I've never heard those words come from the mouths of a winner.
Can't remember any victory speech saying "If you think you could have done better"...
After all that, I'd like to see: How much did you cost the Australian Economy vs. what you gained in wages.
I'll bet you my next years salary that you cost a sh*t load more to the Australian economy (not even including what you cost QANTAS) than you got back in your "deal".
Thanks for the damage you selfish guys.
Originally Posted by Ampclamp
Set back labour relations 30 years
If you took that when first offered what would you wage be today?
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I'll bet you my next years salary that you cost a sh*t load more to the Australian economy (not even including what you cost QANTAS) than you got back in your "deal".
2 767's in sydney over the weekend with fuel leaks in the engine
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Actually "The Peanut" would be El cacahuete or El cacahuate.
I'm betting Steve didn't miss a dollar whilst guys were missing overtime.
Like I said Steve, thanks , no matter what the number.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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another bet that will never see the light of day.
Join Date: May 2007
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i think Elperro is 103% correct..Why would SP make a comment such as " if you think you could do better" You guys and girls have made yourselves look like a bunch of wankers if you accept 3%, no matter what the shiny bits are like, if there is any.
The morale will again drop just as quickly as it has been raised, people will go back to there empires, the same people will get all the training, and the old farts that do fu.k all will continue doing what they do best.
And after all this its time to start negotiating a new EBA....
Its not just the managers that have destroyed a great brand, but many of you need to go home and look in the mirror. more then likely think your the greatest engineers in the world....HA HA like elperro says..
LOSERS
And im not a manager and not a scab, just an ex employee that left cos he was sick of putting up with all the BS...Good to see that it is so entrenched.....
The morale will again drop just as quickly as it has been raised, people will go back to there empires, the same people will get all the training, and the old farts that do fu.k all will continue doing what they do best.
And after all this its time to start negotiating a new EBA....
Its not just the managers that have destroyed a great brand, but many of you need to go home and look in the mirror. more then likely think your the greatest engineers in the world....HA HA like elperro says..
LOSERS
And im not a manager and not a scab, just an ex employee that left cos he was sick of putting up with all the BS...Good to see that it is so entrenched.....
Join Date: Jul 2008
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reply to hardnut
exactly right hardnut.If its not suitable re-apply the blowtorch.
Remembering that 5% was the headline figure to be quoted for negotiations.A combo deal will suit me fine IF its around that number for ALL.
I suspect quite strongly some of beloved QE managers will be shown the door.That will provide real satisfaction.
Dixon's words that frontline staff wont have too much to worry about means there's not much left to trim.
A bloated management structure and the proliferation of ops centre staff and planners needs a review.Little if any cost benefit in my observation.
thanks again to SP and the team no matter what the number is.
Your work is recognised regardless of the outcome.
Remembering that 5% was the headline figure to be quoted for negotiations.A combo deal will suit me fine IF its around that number for ALL.
I suspect quite strongly some of beloved QE managers will be shown the door.That will provide real satisfaction.
Dixon's words that frontline staff wont have too much to worry about means there's not much left to trim.
A bloated management structure and the proliferation of ops centre staff and planners needs a review.Little if any cost benefit in my observation.
thanks again to SP and the team no matter what the number is.
Your work is recognised regardless of the outcome.