Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA
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Same B.S different flavour
What is it like in your area?
Does this indicate that there is a Carreer Path, just that it's blocked (for budget purposes).
Does this indicate that there is a Carreer Path, just that it's blocked (for budget purposes).
WRT to career path (read training) the old excuse was "not until the EBA dispute is resolved. So now I'm waiting for the no because of "budget pruposes" spin to start as well.
Even then you will probably need to be in the "club" or at least be the flavour of the month to get a gig.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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All, the last few posts have been great to read, particularly the one from hadagutful. Can you all keep posting these common sense solutions for problems so we can follow them up when we attend behind the scenes meetings. I like this idea best -
A notice will be out today and it is Line Maintenance. Lets keep talking our language, not that of accuntants and artists.
Get rid of this thing called ACS.... it means nothing. Its down right disrespectful to our profession. It is a name made up by non hands on people to make them fit into the equation.... What about..... "Qantas Engineering- base, line, heavy and support. Covers the lot.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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1/ We need managers who understand our business, and will speak up when decisions are made that have negative impacts.
2/ Sack all the lighthouse group.
3/ Bring the planners back into the sections. We have lost continuity with them all. They can no longer accurately account for manpower or workload, and are not as easily available when extra manpower needs to be organised.
4/ Kill the precinct and keep specialised staff in the relevant sections. It is pointless sending a base Avionics guy (for example) to transit an aircraft at the domestics. They are not experienced to do this. Management just don't get this because they are not engineers. If we have Licence issues then train more people rather than trying to plug 15 holes with 10 fingers.
5/ Sort out this EASA training crap so that Avionics guys can continue to exercise their expertise, and Eng A/F, in the relevant categories and ATA chapters. The current rules are a cost-cutting farce and destroys what made our business so successful and safe.
6/ Rebuild morale and remuneration or pretty soon their will be no-one left here.
7/ A shake-up of our reporting system. Form 500's and Cross reports are usually sent back to the same dept for investigation that caused the quality lapse.
8/ Re-introduce CAR214 training. I can't remember the last read & sign or class room training for a difference I have seen on an aircraft.
These are just a few ideas that immediately come to mind.
2/ Sack all the lighthouse group.
3/ Bring the planners back into the sections. We have lost continuity with them all. They can no longer accurately account for manpower or workload, and are not as easily available when extra manpower needs to be organised.
4/ Kill the precinct and keep specialised staff in the relevant sections. It is pointless sending a base Avionics guy (for example) to transit an aircraft at the domestics. They are not experienced to do this. Management just don't get this because they are not engineers. If we have Licence issues then train more people rather than trying to plug 15 holes with 10 fingers.
5/ Sort out this EASA training crap so that Avionics guys can continue to exercise their expertise, and Eng A/F, in the relevant categories and ATA chapters. The current rules are a cost-cutting farce and destroys what made our business so successful and safe.
6/ Rebuild morale and remuneration or pretty soon their will be no-one left here.
7/ A shake-up of our reporting system. Form 500's and Cross reports are usually sent back to the same dept for investigation that caused the quality lapse.
8/ Re-introduce CAR214 training. I can't remember the last read & sign or class room training for a difference I have seen on an aircraft.
These are just a few ideas that immediately come to mind.
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Ngineer.
Whilst i agree with most of your points, with regards to:
Dont kid yourself bud.
Whilst i agree with most of your points, with regards to:
It is pointless sending a base Avionics guy (for example) to transit an aircraft at the domestics
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Ouch! Sorry dude, you obviously have had some line experience
OK what I meant was that I do not know of many Avionic LAME's within base that could fill out fuel sheets, carry out a walk-around, tell if a tire is within limits, etc etc, the sort of thing required on a line. (And framies carrying out an electrical check). Every section where I have worked it has taken time to adjust. And likewise, you always notice the "new guy" in the workplace and the settling in period that he usually goes through.
The notion that a LAME can walk into a different work environment, without previous experience there, and competantly carry out his duties as efficiently as everyone else there is false. I am sorry if I was too general in my previous points.
OK what I meant was that I do not know of many Avionic LAME's within base that could fill out fuel sheets, carry out a walk-around, tell if a tire is within limits, etc etc, the sort of thing required on a line. (And framies carrying out an electrical check). Every section where I have worked it has taken time to adjust. And likewise, you always notice the "new guy" in the workplace and the settling in period that he usually goes through.
The notion that a LAME can walk into a different work environment, without previous experience there, and competantly carry out his duties as efficiently as everyone else there is false. I am sorry if I was too general in my previous points.
Last edited by Ngineer; 2nd Sep 2008 at 11:23. Reason: more info
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Ngineer,
Spot on, stay in one place for a few years and the other places are VERY differnet kettles of fish.
There's no doubt any of us could drop in and get the job done, whether we would do it correctly, timely, legally etc without about a week of reading first is, however, doubtful.
lets face it, seems if you go away for a few years even removing chocks can be an insurmountable hurdle!!
As for the comments about increasing staff numbers, my fear is that the only airline looking to increase numbers is VBA, and they maybe are looking to expand in SYD due to rumours they've heard coming from upper QE management who are still sadly deluded about the number of LAME's they need!
Good on VBA, at last we will have an alternate choice of reasonable scale in SYD!!
Spot on, stay in one place for a few years and the other places are VERY differnet kettles of fish.
There's no doubt any of us could drop in and get the job done, whether we would do it correctly, timely, legally etc without about a week of reading first is, however, doubtful.
lets face it, seems if you go away for a few years even removing chocks can be an insurmountable hurdle!!
As for the comments about increasing staff numbers, my fear is that the only airline looking to increase numbers is VBA, and they maybe are looking to expand in SYD due to rumours they've heard coming from upper QE management who are still sadly deluded about the number of LAME's they need!
Good on VBA, at last we will have an alternate choice of reasonable scale in SYD!!
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As for the comments about increasing staff numbers, my fear is that the only airline looking to increase numbers is VBA, and they maybe are looking to expand in SYD due to rumours they've heard coming from upper QE management who are still sadly deluded about the number of LAME's they need!
Good on VBA, at last we will have an alternate choice of reasonable scale in SYD!!
Good on VBA, at last we will have an alternate choice of reasonable scale in SYD!!
Only if we can somehow grab VAUS777 maintenance are we likely to 'expand', which is now being talked of as remotely possible...and for what it's worth I truly doubt VB would listen to any rumours coming from upper QE management anyway, whatever they might be.
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Ngineer,
I agree...
There are that many local area procedures these days, only those familiar with the area should work there...
There is also so much in the way of equipment that needs prior training etc.. that someone could illegally use something they think they can use... irrelevant if they used it 10 years ago.
Same said for a base guy who goes to SIO and works a day stopper... he has to get a power unit.. does he use his rover or have to go get a tug...
SIO procedure.. go get the tug,
Can someone go to the terminal and work and grab a cordless headset... no! ... got to be trained.
on another note:
I feel sorry for these SIO guys being farmed out to who ever needs them... they just dumped in an unfamiliar environment and most times are left to fend for themselves.
Guess they are the remnants of a buggery campaign.. someone should tell their boss the dispute is over and get them back on the other operators.
I agree...
There are that many local area procedures these days, only those familiar with the area should work there...
There is also so much in the way of equipment that needs prior training etc.. that someone could illegally use something they think they can use... irrelevant if they used it 10 years ago.
Same said for a base guy who goes to SIO and works a day stopper... he has to get a power unit.. does he use his rover or have to go get a tug...
SIO procedure.. go get the tug,
Can someone go to the terminal and work and grab a cordless headset... no! ... got to be trained.
on another note:
I feel sorry for these SIO guys being farmed out to who ever needs them... they just dumped in an unfamiliar environment and most times are left to fend for themselves.
Guess they are the remnants of a buggery campaign.. someone should tell their boss the dispute is over and get them back on the other operators.
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Well said hadagutfull.
Most mornings a whole crew of guys from SIO can be seen driving around the airport trying to find out where they should be and what they should be doing.
Instead, why are they not arriving working/transiting all the early arriving other operators such as BA, Thai, Korean, Vietnam, Canadian, JAL, Malaysian, etc, etc. Which would of course put lots of cash (which is all management care about) into the QE coffers !!!
And of course the thing that gets the most laughs most mornings is seeing the guys sitting in their cars trying to get to the base, but can't, because Asiana is sitting off bay blocking the roadway !!!!
More donuts anyone ?????
Most mornings a whole crew of guys from SIO can be seen driving around the airport trying to find out where they should be and what they should be doing.
Instead, why are they not arriving working/transiting all the early arriving other operators such as BA, Thai, Korean, Vietnam, Canadian, JAL, Malaysian, etc, etc. Which would of course put lots of cash (which is all management care about) into the QE coffers !!!
And of course the thing that gets the most laughs most mornings is seeing the guys sitting in their cars trying to get to the base, but can't, because Asiana is sitting off bay blocking the roadway !!!!
More donuts anyone ?????
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Totally agree with the last few posts.
With respect to losing customer contracts, the only good that may come of this would be to open up the labor market in Sydney for LAME's. This may ultimately lead to better pay and conditions & training over the next 4-5 years with the current skills shortage.
There was also mention of Virgin Airlines opening a maint base in Syd with the creation of 1000 jobs. Apparently an article in Tuesday's Financial Review. Good on 'em for having the insight to grow and invest in their business.
With respect to losing customer contracts, the only good that may come of this would be to open up the labor market in Sydney for LAME's. This may ultimately lead to better pay and conditions & training over the next 4-5 years with the current skills shortage.
There was also mention of Virgin Airlines opening a maint base in Syd with the creation of 1000 jobs. Apparently an article in Tuesday's Financial Review. Good on 'em for having the insight to grow and invest in their business.
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Maybe they will become the airline that Qantas should have been
Overall a happy workforce though, which does make a difference - so long as they stay in the black, it's happily ever after for people like me.
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LAME's to blame.
I note that the lame's have been blamed for qantas' woeful on time performance of late.One could draw that conclusion however being the narcy contrarian I am, I would like to say we should be thanked for keeping them on time for years under wonderful "leadership" whilst working lots of O/T!!
So as soon as we stopped the O/T for a few months we get the blame, not them for not for their lack of nous.Should be thanked for hi-lighting the bloody big holes that are developing.
On time performance and safety is not God's gift to Qantas and does not just happen by accident.
Requires skills, training, spare parts (somewhere in the same country), teamwork , leadership, accountability (by all), co-operation between all departments just to mention a few requirements.
Are Qantas missing any of the above and if so what are the consequences??
Hmmm??? Not a difficult question that.
So as soon as we stopped the O/T for a few months we get the blame, not them for not for their lack of nous.Should be thanked for hi-lighting the bloody big holes that are developing.
On time performance and safety is not God's gift to Qantas and does not just happen by accident.
Requires skills, training, spare parts (somewhere in the same country), teamwork , leadership, accountability (by all), co-operation between all departments just to mention a few requirements.
Are Qantas missing any of the above and if so what are the consequences??
Hmmm??? Not a difficult question that.
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Originally Posted by Ngineer
With respect to losing customer contracts, the only good that may come of this would be to open up the labor market in Sydney for LAME's. This may ultimately lead to better pay and conditions & training over the next 4-5 years with the current skills shortage.
There was also mention of Virgin Airlines opening a maint base in Syd with the creation of 1000 jobs. Apparently an article in Tuesday's Financial Review. Good on 'em for having the insight to grow and invest in their business.
There was also mention of Virgin Airlines opening a maint base in Syd with the creation of 1000 jobs. Apparently an article in Tuesday's Financial Review. Good on 'em for having the insight to grow and invest in their business.
Excellent idea. Open the market up - no need for strikes. Just move to who pays you more. Who'd have thunk it.
What you mean from all your posts is closed shop for your work location (QF - i.e. no overseas maint, no hiring people on wage levels they are happy with if it's below yours, force the company to pay more - no-one should have to quit) , however you should be allowed to freely move to where ever is paying the most.
Personally I think that if you strike for a given wage level, and get it you should be forced to work for the company under the terms of the EBA for it's duration. Fair is fair. You took away the companies right to accept labour from outside of the company, you should have to sign up to not providing labour outside the company for the same term. If you do then you should pay a financial penalty to QF.
Surely you can see the hypocrisy in your logic. (hmm.. I doubt you will) . The above is obviously tongue in cheek. You should be allowed to move to what ever company you want on terms you individually are happy with , and QF should be allowed to hire whoever they want, on the terms that individual is happy with.
(Anyway, what's this got to do with the QF EBA? Surely time for a new thread to address many of these issues)
Last edited by ElPerro; 7th Sep 2008 at 09:11.
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http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ations-to.html
and "examine whether the existing lines of authority and control over maintenance within the airline are delivering the best possible outcomes".
The profit before schedule, before safety, attitude has finally caught up with them. The say one thing publicly but do another privately we have seen in the last 5 years. The cost cutting, the greedy LAME accusation, the we know best, the disengagement, the dissemination, the world's cheapest practice is best. Lets hope we see a change in relationship over the next generation on engineering management. Fortunately we didn't reach the hull loss scenario but reached a point where the regulator's and the public's eye is well and truly focused on the industry many of us have devoted our working careers to. This business model didn't work. It's delivered alright but not what senior management expect...customers walking away and a public distaste for a once revered airline.
"I've been flying Qantas for years but these days they are always late and they've got the worst record," he said.
"I'm at the point where I'm thinking I'm going to fly with someone else.
"A plane needs to fall out of the sky before they will fix anything as far as I am concerned."
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4685558a12.html
Will the the old managers change there ways or will Mr C sweep out those who failed to see through the smoke of destruction?
Somehow I think the "buggery campaign" is still being distributed through management memo's.
My six years to retirement can't come quick enough!
and "examine whether the existing lines of authority and control over maintenance within the airline are delivering the best possible outcomes".
The profit before schedule, before safety, attitude has finally caught up with them. The say one thing publicly but do another privately we have seen in the last 5 years. The cost cutting, the greedy LAME accusation, the we know best, the disengagement, the dissemination, the world's cheapest practice is best. Lets hope we see a change in relationship over the next generation on engineering management. Fortunately we didn't reach the hull loss scenario but reached a point where the regulator's and the public's eye is well and truly focused on the industry many of us have devoted our working careers to. This business model didn't work. It's delivered alright but not what senior management expect...customers walking away and a public distaste for a once revered airline.
"I've been flying Qantas for years but these days they are always late and they've got the worst record," he said.
"I'm at the point where I'm thinking I'm going to fly with someone else.
"A plane needs to fall out of the sky before they will fix anything as far as I am concerned."
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4685558a12.html
Will the the old managers change there ways or will Mr C sweep out those who failed to see through the smoke of destruction?
Somehow I think the "buggery campaign" is still being distributed through management memo's.
My six years to retirement can't come quick enough!