Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA
Join Date: Dec 2006
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They have to PASS the AA exam before they become a problem.....and guess what....the smarter ones will be failing...........
...and will walk away with the loot without stepping in the door........
I have it on good authority quite a few who are pocketing the $100k, or whatever it's up to now, have no intention of actually seeing an aeroplane!!
...and will walk away with the loot without stepping in the door........
I have it on good authority quite a few who are pocketing the $100k, or whatever it's up to now, have no intention of actually seeing an aeroplane!!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Had a chat with a person I had met who said he was from a company called S&P at a meeting recently, seemed very interested in the happenings of our airline. He commented that a credit rating was under review due to the uncertainty of profits next fin year, due to current turbulance within the company. (This was about the same time our stop works were hitting the news). Seemed pretty logical to me. I also heard there was a fairly big upcoming meeting in the big apple with our grand poohbahs and several financial guys?
Either way, it seems every time we hold a 4 hour stop work, it sends shudders through the network for many days later.
Either way, it seems every time we hold a 4 hour stop work, it sends shudders through the network for many days later.
Last edited by Ngineer; 13th Jun 2008 at 07:54. Reason: typo
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Many years since I left Qantas but I can say stand firm and give it to these bast##ds.
I used to enjoy the old stop work meetings down the old Rowers club and a few schooners. With respect to the blue team guys I think it is great you are all united in the cause, the old method was divide and conquer but you have them stuffed!
With regards to the scabs name and shame it is simple opportunism. With respect to the trolls like cpiom and who ever the other guys forget them they are just gutter dwellers of no substance!
from an old Sydney maintenance guy (in the 80's).
I used to enjoy the old stop work meetings down the old Rowers club and a few schooners. With respect to the blue team guys I think it is great you are all united in the cause, the old method was divide and conquer but you have them stuffed!
With regards to the scabs name and shame it is simple opportunism. With respect to the trolls like cpiom and who ever the other guys forget them they are just gutter dwellers of no substance!
from an old Sydney maintenance guy (in the 80's).
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I believe after reading the latest notice, that the time has come to step up our pia. The company through their inherenent ineptitude and general incompetence has dragged this EBA on long enough. Its time to go to 8hr rosters, follow the ppm to the letter, and apply as much pressure as possible!!
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A question for the FedSec
Steve,
Are we legally bound to give these scumbags notice of our stop work meetings or can we call snap ones?
Seems to me giving them notice is counter-productive?
Are we legally bound to give these scumbags notice of our stop work meetings or can we call snap ones?
Seems to me giving them notice is counter-productive?
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Many years since I left Qantas but I can say stand firm and give it to these bast##ds.
I used to enjoy the old stop work meetings down the old Rowers club and a few schooners. With respect to the blue team guys I think it is great you are all united in the cause, the old method was divide and conquer but you have them stuffed!
With regards to the scabs name and shame it is simple opportunism. With respect to the trolls like cpiom and who ever the other guys forget them they are just gutter dwellers of no substance!
from an old Sydney maintenance guy (in the 80's).
I used to enjoy the old stop work meetings down the old Rowers club and a few schooners. With respect to the blue team guys I think it is great you are all united in the cause, the old method was divide and conquer but you have them stuffed!
With regards to the scabs name and shame it is simple opportunism. With respect to the trolls like cpiom and who ever the other guys forget them they are just gutter dwellers of no substance!
from an old Sydney maintenance guy (in the 80's).
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I think there is not time to waste, we need to go back to 8 hour shifts.
Our people can not work 12 hours with no breaks. We are suffering from extended hour shifts with no or little breaks.
We are hounded by management to sign for unserviceable aircraft and being so fatigued, someone may just do that
(soooo fatigued, stressed & demoralised)..
The BIG BANG theory may be about to re-materialise.
Time to take 5. ie go back to 8 hour shifts.
Our people can not work 12 hours with no breaks. We are suffering from extended hour shifts with no or little breaks.
We are hounded by management to sign for unserviceable aircraft and being so fatigued, someone may just do that
(soooo fatigued, stressed & demoralised)..
The BIG BANG theory may be about to re-materialise.
Time to take 5. ie go back to 8 hour shifts.
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I'd love to know how much this dispute has cost the company so far, with hiring scabs, pax in hotels, a/c flying empty etc. etc. must be eating into their fighting fund, also what would the shareholders think of all this.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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SickofQF, I would'nt mind trying out the 8 hour roster again. It's been many years since we were on it, and I think it would be good for a change and for moral. However, the 4hour stop work meetings really had them running scared. Especially so that they threatened not to negotiate with us. We all saw the impact of them for at least a week later. I think we should have a running campaign of 4 hour stoppages until the company puts an offer on the table, not just another token meeting to try and buy more time.
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Surely, enough is enough.
We, the LAMEs have shown good will for 20 months now all the time being shafted by our company's CEO.
If it is a fight they want, lets give them one.
A 2 day stop work meeting to discuss returning to an 8 hour shift. Allowed under the PIA.
It will take at least that to talk to the members of the ALAEA and then vote on it.
Good will has gone. Time to talk turkey.
We, the LAMEs have shown good will for 20 months now all the time being shafted by our company's CEO.
If it is a fight they want, lets give them one.
A 2 day stop work meeting to discuss returning to an 8 hour shift. Allowed under the PIA.
It will take at least that to talk to the members of the ALAEA and then vote on it.
Good will has gone. Time to talk turkey.
Join Date: Jun 2008
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What Next
Hi All..... Ive been watching for a while but thought I'd better get my own log-on and say my bit.
As I remember, 8 hour rosters weren't much fun. Not many days off etc. Happy to go there if directed of course, however I'd be hoping that it would strangle things enough to force a result from qf quickly. In my mind, it's beyond belief that qf is allowing such damage to occur and not frantically looking to reach an aggreement with us. If this thing drags on, i'd prefer to be on a roster that provides days off and shift penalties. You can be sure that we'd land on the least friendly roster concieveable, probably with plenty of 7am starts.
This campain needs to ramp up quickly of course, but with only one set of staggerred (between ports) stop work meetings behind us, I reckon having a few co-ordinated (all ports at once) stop works (ie: 2, in a week) would certainly get our plight back in the news, ground several aircraft and expose both the imported strikebreakers and those amongst us.
As I remember, 8 hour rosters weren't much fun. Not many days off etc. Happy to go there if directed of course, however I'd be hoping that it would strangle things enough to force a result from qf quickly. In my mind, it's beyond belief that qf is allowing such damage to occur and not frantically looking to reach an aggreement with us. If this thing drags on, i'd prefer to be on a roster that provides days off and shift penalties. You can be sure that we'd land on the least friendly roster concieveable, probably with plenty of 7am starts.
This campain needs to ramp up quickly of course, but with only one set of staggerred (between ports) stop work meetings behind us, I reckon having a few co-ordinated (all ports at once) stop works (ie: 2, in a week) would certainly get our plight back in the news, ground several aircraft and expose both the imported strikebreakers and those amongst us.
Join Date: Jul 2004
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8 hr roster
Totally agree off-sked. The 8 hr roster is extremely painful to us. Having done it in Perth we got a result but it took it's toll on everyone, it is especially hard on those with young children. With most peoples leave cancelled the breaks between shifts give us time to wind down and spend time with our families. However these are trying times and if that is what is needed so be it.
We'll win the war make no mistake.
All the best to you and your families.
We'll win the war make no mistake.
All the best to you and your families.
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"You can be sure that we'd land on the least friendly roster concieveable, probably with plenty of 7am starts."
Off-sked, I think your probably right mate.
"I love big t*ts"
Mel Applied, is your missus watching big brother aswell?
Off-sked, I think your probably right mate.
"I love big t*ts"
Mel Applied, is your missus watching big brother aswell?
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Oh the disappointment of it all I could have sworn that Qantas would fold by now but still we wait and hear from the asn that we need to allow time for the fearless Qantas leaders to get back to us at their leisure next week. Now my knees started to buckle at the thought of a lengthy campaign that required me to cut back on overtime and work to rule. I told my wife that I wanted it all to end so I could go back to cutting corners, turning a blind eye to minor defects and doing call ins at midnight. She said to me – goatrider wtf are you thinking about you moron, just close your eyes and think of the celebration party at some managers house if you guys fold – so I did and these were just some of the scenes I imagined.
The distinguished guests arriving at the Dixon Chateau at or slightly after the 13.30 commencement time to be met by AP and AMc for an introductory safety briefing.
DC standing by the h’orderves mulling over his selection when M comes up and touches him so ever gently on the arse and says “ Did I tell you we could do it or did I tell you we could do it”.
Big Kev rolling a few snags around the 12 plate stainless bbq whilst wearing an apron that says – “Gout builds character”. Four new ops managers trying to work out how to light the flame.
JV handing out pocket versions of his strategy map explaining how it should have worked at Ansett but the LAMEs had a go slow on that grounded the 767 fleet.
Dixon sharing a fluffy duck with an old friend Marg saying “who were those two fwits introducing people at the door?”
DH sitting in the corner by himself, stubby in one hand, stubby holder in the other wondering why nobody is interested in talking to him.
GB on the edge of his seat pretending he is interested in the story DR is feeding him about all the leave he rejected. Stylsey walks up and interrupts saying ‘hey GB you might want to sit on that seat properly, we’d hate somebody to hurt themselves now wouldn’t we.”
Dicko and M embracing with a slight whisper from the boss ‘he will be gone before I am mate and the job is yours”.
The group photo.
Just some of the ghastly scenes I have been imagining. Bring on the 8 hour.
The distinguished guests arriving at the Dixon Chateau at or slightly after the 13.30 commencement time to be met by AP and AMc for an introductory safety briefing.
DC standing by the h’orderves mulling over his selection when M comes up and touches him so ever gently on the arse and says “ Did I tell you we could do it or did I tell you we could do it”.
Big Kev rolling a few snags around the 12 plate stainless bbq whilst wearing an apron that says – “Gout builds character”. Four new ops managers trying to work out how to light the flame.
JV handing out pocket versions of his strategy map explaining how it should have worked at Ansett but the LAMEs had a go slow on that grounded the 767 fleet.
Dixon sharing a fluffy duck with an old friend Marg saying “who were those two fwits introducing people at the door?”
DH sitting in the corner by himself, stubby in one hand, stubby holder in the other wondering why nobody is interested in talking to him.
GB on the edge of his seat pretending he is interested in the story DR is feeding him about all the leave he rejected. Stylsey walks up and interrupts saying ‘hey GB you might want to sit on that seat properly, we’d hate somebody to hurt themselves now wouldn’t we.”
Dicko and M embracing with a slight whisper from the boss ‘he will be gone before I am mate and the job is yours”.
The group photo.
Just some of the ghastly scenes I have been imagining. Bring on the 8 hour.
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Money talks and BS walks!!!!!!!!!!!
SP I think you a wrong not to fight the battle on a financial as well as a moral front.
The moral claim by LAME's to maintain wages in line with inflation is not in question by anyone but our executive management who think the rules apply to their employees but not themselves. Hence they are considered irrelevant and unable to lead by their employees.
From a financial view I have provided info from the QF annual reports and is therefore not biased by us.
Yes it is true fuel costs have risen from 13% of total expenditure in to approx 30% in 2009. This is a fact and all of us including the executives have no control over this rise. But as we are the “most experienced airline” and have seen all this before we have a team of people who hedge our fuel price, its just a form of insurance.
What is more important than the rising cost of fuel is the rise in total group revenue. As long as our customers pay more per seat/km to compensate the company for the increased fuel costs the shareholders are all the better off. So lets look at the figures…….Group revenue has risen by $7.3B and fuel costs by $4B over the same period from 2004 to projected figures in 2009.
Why does Geoff keep making all these doom and gloom projections? Because they love to baffle all with figures and Bull Sh*t. Will our fuel cost really be $5.3B in 2009? Who knows. But they have said that fuel costs will be $2b higher by the end of 09………….so where is the counter prediction about revenue?? Well revenue will grow by $3.5B over the same period, so shareholders will be better off and have an extra $1.5B in their pockets.
So what about wages growth?? Yes compound 5% to all employees wages in the group and you are out $342M…. minus that from our left over revenue after increased fuel costs and our shareholders are still $1.158B better off………
Lets look at another little hole in the leaking boat… basically our Executives talk about customers but keep on cutting services, sustainable futures means less front line staff and our wonderful loyal customers are charged full service airline rates but get second rate front line service because there are just not enough check in, motivated cabin crew, ramp and engineering staff. Lets take $200M out of the $503M in marketing budget and actually provide the resources to our customers we continually bombard them with on the TV. That equates to nearly 2000 new front line staff!!!!!!!!!!!! No increase in cost but hey what would any Airport Manager or Duty Manager say to say an extra 800 staff in Sydney, 500 in MEL and another 700 spread out within the rest of the network. WOW what a revolution we could actually do what the TV ads say we do and still bore the customers with $300M in ads each year.
The final say….
Let our leaders stop telling us how to be leaders and using their new language and actually start doing it themselves. Our Board need to step up and say enough is enough before our customers desert us and our proud airline is destroyed by personal greed and gross incompetence from those who have failed to meet the moral test to lead this wonderful organization.
Thanks to all our wonderful front line staff, you are the real heart of our company not our pathetic executive team.
EstimatesEstimatesQAN Annual ReportQAN Annual ReportQAN Annual ReportQAN Annual Report200920082007200620052004Revenue 18,685,658,970 16,833,927,000 $ 15,165,700,000 $ 13,660,600,000 $ 12,648,000,000 $ 11,353,000,000 Revenue Growth11.0%11.0%11.0%8.0%11.4%Total Expenditure $ 17,299,755,981 $ 15,828,556,800 $ 14,064,600,000 $ 12,962,000,000 $ 11,527,100,000 $ 10,255,500,000 Expenditure less fuel $ 11,962,955,981 $ 11,328,556,800 $ 10,727,800,000 $ 10,159,700,000 $ 9,595,400,000 $ 8,899,900,000 5.6%5.9%7.8% $ 1,385,902,989 $ 1,005,370,200 $ 1,101,100,000 $ 698,600,000 Manpower & Staff Related $ 3,676,506,750 $ 3,501,435,000 $ 3,334,700,000 $ 3,332,170,000 $ 3,244,900,000 $ 2,938,500,000 Wages Growth 2 years $ 341,806,750 23.7%25.7%28.2%28.7%Aviation Fuel Useage L 4,680,270,000 4,561,238,000 Fuel Costs $ 5,336,800,000 $ 4,500,000,000 $ 3,336,800,000 $ 2,802,300,000 1,931,700,000 1,355,600,000 Cost per litre $ 0.71 $ 0.61 Fuel costs as a % of total costs30.85%28.43%23.72%21.62%16.76%13.22%Staff 32,831 33,788 35,520 33,862 Average Manpower & staff related cost per employee $ 101,571.69 $ 98,619.92 $ 91,354.17 $ 86,778.69 3.0%8.0%5.3%Cash Flow $ 2,353,400,000 $ 2,026,000,000 1,950,000,000 1,999,400,000 Net Cash Flow per employee 71,682.25 59,962.12 54,898.65 59,045.54 Marketing Costs $ 503,400,000 $ 469,600,000 444,300,000 466,100,000 Computer & Comms $ 527,000,000 $ 487,000,000 491,900,000 439,100,000 Computer & Comms per employee $ 16,052 $ 14,413
The moral claim by LAME's to maintain wages in line with inflation is not in question by anyone but our executive management who think the rules apply to their employees but not themselves. Hence they are considered irrelevant and unable to lead by their employees.
From a financial view I have provided info from the QF annual reports and is therefore not biased by us.
Yes it is true fuel costs have risen from 13% of total expenditure in to approx 30% in 2009. This is a fact and all of us including the executives have no control over this rise. But as we are the “most experienced airline” and have seen all this before we have a team of people who hedge our fuel price, its just a form of insurance.
What is more important than the rising cost of fuel is the rise in total group revenue. As long as our customers pay more per seat/km to compensate the company for the increased fuel costs the shareholders are all the better off. So lets look at the figures…….Group revenue has risen by $7.3B and fuel costs by $4B over the same period from 2004 to projected figures in 2009.
Why does Geoff keep making all these doom and gloom projections? Because they love to baffle all with figures and Bull Sh*t. Will our fuel cost really be $5.3B in 2009? Who knows. But they have said that fuel costs will be $2b higher by the end of 09………….so where is the counter prediction about revenue?? Well revenue will grow by $3.5B over the same period, so shareholders will be better off and have an extra $1.5B in their pockets.
So what about wages growth?? Yes compound 5% to all employees wages in the group and you are out $342M…. minus that from our left over revenue after increased fuel costs and our shareholders are still $1.158B better off………
Lets look at another little hole in the leaking boat… basically our Executives talk about customers but keep on cutting services, sustainable futures means less front line staff and our wonderful loyal customers are charged full service airline rates but get second rate front line service because there are just not enough check in, motivated cabin crew, ramp and engineering staff. Lets take $200M out of the $503M in marketing budget and actually provide the resources to our customers we continually bombard them with on the TV. That equates to nearly 2000 new front line staff!!!!!!!!!!!! No increase in cost but hey what would any Airport Manager or Duty Manager say to say an extra 800 staff in Sydney, 500 in MEL and another 700 spread out within the rest of the network. WOW what a revolution we could actually do what the TV ads say we do and still bore the customers with $300M in ads each year.
The final say….
Let our leaders stop telling us how to be leaders and using their new language and actually start doing it themselves. Our Board need to step up and say enough is enough before our customers desert us and our proud airline is destroyed by personal greed and gross incompetence from those who have failed to meet the moral test to lead this wonderful organization.
Thanks to all our wonderful front line staff, you are the real heart of our company not our pathetic executive team.
EstimatesEstimatesQAN Annual ReportQAN Annual ReportQAN Annual ReportQAN Annual Report200920082007200620052004Revenue 18,685,658,970 16,833,927,000 $ 15,165,700,000 $ 13,660,600,000 $ 12,648,000,000 $ 11,353,000,000 Revenue Growth11.0%11.0%11.0%8.0%11.4%Total Expenditure $ 17,299,755,981 $ 15,828,556,800 $ 14,064,600,000 $ 12,962,000,000 $ 11,527,100,000 $ 10,255,500,000 Expenditure less fuel $ 11,962,955,981 $ 11,328,556,800 $ 10,727,800,000 $ 10,159,700,000 $ 9,595,400,000 $ 8,899,900,000 5.6%5.9%7.8% $ 1,385,902,989 $ 1,005,370,200 $ 1,101,100,000 $ 698,600,000 Manpower & Staff Related $ 3,676,506,750 $ 3,501,435,000 $ 3,334,700,000 $ 3,332,170,000 $ 3,244,900,000 $ 2,938,500,000 Wages Growth 2 years $ 341,806,750 23.7%25.7%28.2%28.7%Aviation Fuel Useage L 4,680,270,000 4,561,238,000 Fuel Costs $ 5,336,800,000 $ 4,500,000,000 $ 3,336,800,000 $ 2,802,300,000 1,931,700,000 1,355,600,000 Cost per litre $ 0.71 $ 0.61 Fuel costs as a % of total costs30.85%28.43%23.72%21.62%16.76%13.22%Staff 32,831 33,788 35,520 33,862 Average Manpower & staff related cost per employee $ 101,571.69 $ 98,619.92 $ 91,354.17 $ 86,778.69 3.0%8.0%5.3%Cash Flow $ 2,353,400,000 $ 2,026,000,000 1,950,000,000 1,999,400,000 Net Cash Flow per employee 71,682.25 59,962.12 54,898.65 59,045.54 Marketing Costs $ 503,400,000 $ 469,600,000 444,300,000 466,100,000 Computer & Comms $ 527,000,000 $ 487,000,000 491,900,000 439,100,000 Computer & Comms per employee $ 16,052 $ 14,413
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I deleted my post as Its best I keep out of it as it could have heated up!
Jeez, gumpy you must be on some very different flights to me ( Ive been doing this for over 20 years) once again I have never seen a captain stand anywhere near passengers when boarding or ever listen to conversations enough to blast any Cabin Crew. I doubt any tech crew would "tear strips" of anyone these days, there would be a harassment case in the office in two seconds flat!
The tech crew are always in the cockpit when pax are boarding.
I have never had a captain or any tech stand even close to me when speaking to a pax, they rarely leave the flight deck these days due to necessity.
I still stand by my statement....I have never seen any engineer explain to ANY pax about a delay or technical problem.....however please feel free to do so in the near future, I welcome you taking the heat from us.
What concerns me though is the collateral damage!
Jeez, gumpy you must be on some very different flights to me ( Ive been doing this for over 20 years) once again I have never seen a captain stand anywhere near passengers when boarding or ever listen to conversations enough to blast any Cabin Crew. I doubt any tech crew would "tear strips" of anyone these days, there would be a harassment case in the office in two seconds flat!
The tech crew are always in the cockpit when pax are boarding.
I have never had a captain or any tech stand even close to me when speaking to a pax, they rarely leave the flight deck these days due to necessity.
I still stand by my statement....I have never seen any engineer explain to ANY pax about a delay or technical problem.....however please feel free to do so in the near future, I welcome you taking the heat from us.
What concerns me though is the collateral damage!