Pilots with history of recreational drug use.Do I stand a chance?
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Heck.
Well, this has proved to be an interesting can of worms.Heres my 1 cent. Personally, I am leaning more towards the seemingly well informed arguments of Sunfish than the dogmatic, hysterical rants of Nas and Atlas.
Cetnik-youve obviously been a dick in the past. That rubbish you were taking will, at best diminish your potential and make rubbish music ok and, at worst kill you-either by itself or bringing you into circles inhabited by by bad men.But now,at least,you are seeking to right past wrongs-I agree with the others who say that 2 months is not long enough and maybe come back after 2 years and you may have a case for redemption.You should certainly be given the chance. Even the jail crazy yanks give you 3 strikes to get out. You might also want to take a few more English classes along with the Math because god knows they`re toughening up on that as well.
Maybe Sunfish was incorrect when he stated that everybody has had a toke but I think he was just making the point that drug use is wide spread and wont just go away.Even if- as some twit mentioned earlier-we start executing everybody involved. Like most difficult issues, It needs to be managed and not just wished away by men on absolutist high horses who would shop their kids to the police. I mean really. What are ya?
Cetnik-youve obviously been a dick in the past. That rubbish you were taking will, at best diminish your potential and make rubbish music ok and, at worst kill you-either by itself or bringing you into circles inhabited by by bad men.But now,at least,you are seeking to right past wrongs-I agree with the others who say that 2 months is not long enough and maybe come back after 2 years and you may have a case for redemption.You should certainly be given the chance. Even the jail crazy yanks give you 3 strikes to get out. You might also want to take a few more English classes along with the Math because god knows they`re toughening up on that as well.
Maybe Sunfish was incorrect when he stated that everybody has had a toke but I think he was just making the point that drug use is wide spread and wont just go away.Even if- as some twit mentioned earlier-we start executing everybody involved. Like most difficult issues, It needs to be managed and not just wished away by men on absolutist high horses who would shop their kids to the police. I mean really. What are ya?
Last edited by JohnnyK; 10th Apr 2008 at 14:13. Reason: edit.
Jaba, while I agree with your sentiments about commercial drug dealers, the bullet behind the ear solution is not going to happen anytime soon.
Most kids get it first by "borrowing" some from a "friend" for $20.00 or whatever, I don't know the current street prices. The "friend" usually says he gets it from "his brother at University" or some such excuse, but he is often getting it from an addict or level 1 dealer.
Addicts normally have a supplier slightly higher up the tree that deals in slightly larger quantities, some of which they on sell to finance their own use.
You will never get much past the second level of dealers without a Police investigation because while levels 1 and 2 are almost always harmless, your level 3 dealer and above will kill you without a moments thought if they feel the need to.
Even if you are aware of exactly who is dealing what, you have to think very hard before you tell the police, because there is the risk of police corruption resulting in the dealer discovering the source of the information - and this risk increases the further you go up the tree.
There are some very very nasty people in this world that you and I never see except occasionally on television.
As for kids, my partner is a teacher in a private school. The usual dead give away of drug use in students is a relatively sudden decline in marks in all subjects with no apparent reason, usually accompanied with late, incomplete, sloppy or zero homework. This often takes the form of about a six week downward spiral.
Parents generally won't know of drug use because not only are kids cunning little beggars, but because even dope use is easily hidden. You can get a pipe and cone two inches long, and a cone of dope is about a quarter the size of a cigarette filter. Kids can administer a cone to themselves in about thirty seconds and you won't see anything or smell anything. Bongs of course are generally more obvious.
If you find so much as a cigarette lighter or cigarette debris (especially torn up unsmoked debris) suspect dope use and act immediately and harshly. If you don't know what you are looking for, visit a bong shop. If you find the evidence (an aluminium cone a bit bigger than a trouser button, coke can bong, pipe or suchlike ) don't wait and above all don't tread softly you need to make it immediately clear that you will not tolerate it's use anytime anywhere and especially under your own roof. Don't bother with the police, they don't want to know and are too busy anyway.
Simplest solution is an immediate (and I mean immediate) change of school, immediate removal from the current circle of "friends' (most of whom will be doing stuff), close personal supervision at all times, alternative activities, strict rules and draconian penalties for misbehaviour. You would also need trained help to run such an intervention.
I hope you never have to deal with this, but I know for a fact that thousands of families are trying to deal with it right now.
If Cetnik has found something (aviation) that he is willing to permanently forgo drugs for....well good on him!
Most kids get it first by "borrowing" some from a "friend" for $20.00 or whatever, I don't know the current street prices. The "friend" usually says he gets it from "his brother at University" or some such excuse, but he is often getting it from an addict or level 1 dealer.
Addicts normally have a supplier slightly higher up the tree that deals in slightly larger quantities, some of which they on sell to finance their own use.
You will never get much past the second level of dealers without a Police investigation because while levels 1 and 2 are almost always harmless, your level 3 dealer and above will kill you without a moments thought if they feel the need to.
Even if you are aware of exactly who is dealing what, you have to think very hard before you tell the police, because there is the risk of police corruption resulting in the dealer discovering the source of the information - and this risk increases the further you go up the tree.
There are some very very nasty people in this world that you and I never see except occasionally on television.
As for kids, my partner is a teacher in a private school. The usual dead give away of drug use in students is a relatively sudden decline in marks in all subjects with no apparent reason, usually accompanied with late, incomplete, sloppy or zero homework. This often takes the form of about a six week downward spiral.
Parents generally won't know of drug use because not only are kids cunning little beggars, but because even dope use is easily hidden. You can get a pipe and cone two inches long, and a cone of dope is about a quarter the size of a cigarette filter. Kids can administer a cone to themselves in about thirty seconds and you won't see anything or smell anything. Bongs of course are generally more obvious.
If you find so much as a cigarette lighter or cigarette debris (especially torn up unsmoked debris) suspect dope use and act immediately and harshly. If you don't know what you are looking for, visit a bong shop. If you find the evidence (an aluminium cone a bit bigger than a trouser button, coke can bong, pipe or suchlike ) don't wait and above all don't tread softly you need to make it immediately clear that you will not tolerate it's use anytime anywhere and especially under your own roof. Don't bother with the police, they don't want to know and are too busy anyway.
Simplest solution is an immediate (and I mean immediate) change of school, immediate removal from the current circle of "friends' (most of whom will be doing stuff), close personal supervision at all times, alternative activities, strict rules and draconian penalties for misbehaviour. You would also need trained help to run such an intervention.
I hope you never have to deal with this, but I know for a fact that thousands of families are trying to deal with it right now.
If Cetnik has found something (aviation) that he is willing to permanently forgo drugs for....well good on him!
Is anyone else reminded of the stoning scene out of "The Life of Brian" after wading through most of the tripe being posted on this thread by those bigots who have never smoked anything or touched a drop of alcohol in their short miserable lives?
Click here for a reminder
Glass houses.
Click here for a reminder
Glass houses.
);self.focus();)
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If you really really want to be a pilot, go out and do the hard yards... show everyone it's what you really want in life. It was only four years ago we saw 90% of people who started learning to fly at the Uni's and TAFE's drop out of the industry early on and at the moment guess which profile you appear to fit?
Knock off the maths, physics and english via a correspondance course. Get a job doing anything you can (doesn't have to be aviation related, but if refuelling aircraft keeps you motivated towards your goal go for that) and pay for your CPL and CIR/ME yourself. Don't get mummy and daddy to pay for it - sure you may get the qualification sooner, but it's unlikely you will have put in the same effort to making sure you're a professional pilot and you'll struggle in GA if the industry goes back to how it has been for 20+ years.
If you can stay on the straight and narrow in that time and save the money for the license you'll be rewarded for your efforts in the long term.
Still can't understand why people turn to drugs when there's aerobatics endorsements there just waiting to be had *shakes head in disbelief*
Knock off the maths, physics and english via a correspondance course. Get a job doing anything you can (doesn't have to be aviation related, but if refuelling aircraft keeps you motivated towards your goal go for that) and pay for your CPL and CIR/ME yourself. Don't get mummy and daddy to pay for it - sure you may get the qualification sooner, but it's unlikely you will have put in the same effort to making sure you're a professional pilot and you'll struggle in GA if the industry goes back to how it has been for 20+ years.
If you can stay on the straight and narrow in that time and save the money for the license you'll be rewarded for your efforts in the long term.
Still can't understand why people turn to drugs when there's aerobatics endorsements there just waiting to be had *shakes head in disbelief*
So go ahead, report your number one son to the police. They will try and dissuade you from taking matters further, but if you really really want to, you can destroy his employment prospects for the next thirty years if you try.
What a great victory for you and common sense.
What a great victory for you and common sense.
Are you really saying that if you found a small amount of weed in your son's bedroom you would haul him off to try and get him a criminal record, rather than deal with the problem on a personal level as a parent?
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Wow! It's been interesting watching this thread develop! Now, I ain't going to start quoting here, or singling out individuals, but I reckon some of you are massively missing the point.
First, for the record let me state quite clearly that I am not religious -couldn't be further from it; I smoke, I enjoy a beer, wine or spirit in the company of friends (have been known to get excessive enjoyment from it in the past!), I do not consider myself to be a wowser, bigot, mushroom or naive and seemingly, neither do any of my friends consider me thus, nor has my life been short or miserable.
I am however whole-heartedly, completely and irrevocably against any level of drug use, particularly as it pertains to participants within our profession. My position was stated quite clearly I reckon in an earlier post on the subject. I have never taken any form of illicit drug in my life. I have though seen lives destroyed my "experimentation" with various compounds, in one case a good friend; a promising, brilliant university graduate reduced to menial tasks like clearing glasses and emptying ashtrays in pubs -he can't handle anything more demanding now. His cognitive ability was destroyed by magic mushrooms. He is kept 'flying' medically today, because that is the only way he can function at any level. He doesn't know who I am any more. I had a partner that thought her occasional, social participation passing a joint was fairly benign. She never really did ever have much memory of the psychotic events that I had to handle in the aftermath. I have very nearly lost 3 nieces and nephews to varying levels of drug use. They are clean now, with families of their own. The signs of their past are still there though, when you compare the kids you knew before the drugs to the people that exist today. They're all now staunchly anti-drug, and I fear for any of their children that may dare repeat their mistakes.
I have been a victim of crime associated with this scourge more than once, as I am sure have many others in here. I would do anything within my power, without reservation or hindrance to assist anyone genuinely wishing to release themselves from the vicious embrace of this scourge at any time, as I have done in the past.
But would I knowingly allow any one of those people to risk my investment, my hopes for the future, my customers, my reputation and my income? Not on your bloody life. No way, Jose. Not until I was DAMN sure there was a solid, verifiable, lengthy history of non-indulgence. If there was ever proven evidence of further use, out they would go. One strike, you're out.
So, where do I see other correspondents in this thread missing the point? In a word: TOLERANCE.
You are prepared to accept drug use and then encourage users to participate in an industry where such use must be absolutely intolerable!!! But it's wider than that too -at a societal level, it must be made plain that any level of drug use is simply unacceptable. The very tolerance in the wider community is what makes kids think it's OK to experiment, without thought of what that experimentation may mean to their future prospects at so many different levels. That tolerance and acceptance of this particular 'youthful excess' is what makes it possible for whatever level of drug dealer to flourish. Take away the demand, the bloody supply will soon dwindle. There is absolutely nothing benign about any level of drug use. To suggest otherwise, you are deluding only yourself. To suggest that a recently-reformed user might not at some stage choose to combine what they have known in the past with the skills they have acquired since, naive. That's not a risk I am prepared to take myself, nor one I think should be imposed on unknowing, paying pax.
Tolerance is tantamount to tacit approval. If that's a risk you are prepared to take, fill your boots. Don't expect to change my opinion by any level of impassioned rhetoric, or expect me to be even slightly swayed by your insults. I've got that particular T-shirt already. Why should I as an airspace user tolerate a risk you are imposing on me by your acceptance???
I reckon the original poster is either very brave or very naive posting his query (I suspect the latter). How confident can any of us be that his past experimentation with drugs is past? How confident can any of us be that his current experimentation with aviation will ever reach the necessary level of commitment? How confident can any of us be that these twin experimentations will never be combined in the future???
And you want me to be tolerant...
First, for the record let me state quite clearly that I am not religious -couldn't be further from it; I smoke, I enjoy a beer, wine or spirit in the company of friends (have been known to get excessive enjoyment from it in the past!), I do not consider myself to be a wowser, bigot, mushroom or naive and seemingly, neither do any of my friends consider me thus, nor has my life been short or miserable.
I am however whole-heartedly, completely and irrevocably against any level of drug use, particularly as it pertains to participants within our profession. My position was stated quite clearly I reckon in an earlier post on the subject. I have never taken any form of illicit drug in my life. I have though seen lives destroyed my "experimentation" with various compounds, in one case a good friend; a promising, brilliant university graduate reduced to menial tasks like clearing glasses and emptying ashtrays in pubs -he can't handle anything more demanding now. His cognitive ability was destroyed by magic mushrooms. He is kept 'flying' medically today, because that is the only way he can function at any level. He doesn't know who I am any more. I had a partner that thought her occasional, social participation passing a joint was fairly benign. She never really did ever have much memory of the psychotic events that I had to handle in the aftermath. I have very nearly lost 3 nieces and nephews to varying levels of drug use. They are clean now, with families of their own. The signs of their past are still there though, when you compare the kids you knew before the drugs to the people that exist today. They're all now staunchly anti-drug, and I fear for any of their children that may dare repeat their mistakes.
I have been a victim of crime associated with this scourge more than once, as I am sure have many others in here. I would do anything within my power, without reservation or hindrance to assist anyone genuinely wishing to release themselves from the vicious embrace of this scourge at any time, as I have done in the past.
But would I knowingly allow any one of those people to risk my investment, my hopes for the future, my customers, my reputation and my income? Not on your bloody life. No way, Jose. Not until I was DAMN sure there was a solid, verifiable, lengthy history of non-indulgence. If there was ever proven evidence of further use, out they would go. One strike, you're out.
So, where do I see other correspondents in this thread missing the point? In a word: TOLERANCE.
You are prepared to accept drug use and then encourage users to participate in an industry where such use must be absolutely intolerable!!! But it's wider than that too -at a societal level, it must be made plain that any level of drug use is simply unacceptable. The very tolerance in the wider community is what makes kids think it's OK to experiment, without thought of what that experimentation may mean to their future prospects at so many different levels. That tolerance and acceptance of this particular 'youthful excess' is what makes it possible for whatever level of drug dealer to flourish. Take away the demand, the bloody supply will soon dwindle. There is absolutely nothing benign about any level of drug use. To suggest otherwise, you are deluding only yourself. To suggest that a recently-reformed user might not at some stage choose to combine what they have known in the past with the skills they have acquired since, naive. That's not a risk I am prepared to take myself, nor one I think should be imposed on unknowing, paying pax.
Tolerance is tantamount to tacit approval. If that's a risk you are prepared to take, fill your boots. Don't expect to change my opinion by any level of impassioned rhetoric, or expect me to be even slightly swayed by your insults. I've got that particular T-shirt already. Why should I as an airspace user tolerate a risk you are imposing on me by your acceptance???
I reckon the original poster is either very brave or very naive posting his query (I suspect the latter). How confident can any of us be that his past experimentation with drugs is past? How confident can any of us be that his current experimentation with aviation will ever reach the necessary level of commitment? How confident can any of us be that these twin experimentations will never be combined in the future???
And you want me to be tolerant...
Last edited by RadioSaigon; 10th Apr 2008 at 23:25.
Someone mentioned that if you were to go out in the street, could you pick the drug user, implying that many were. My response....Could you pick the non-drug user. Just becasue under someones silver lining is charcol does not mean the one next to it is also. I watched the program on Oasis last night when Ramsey was in add break- frankly that guy rocks and my wife and I cheer everytime he gets mad. That man( dont know his name) needs more than just a pat on the back for his determination and love. My point though here is that we are saying that alot of people do drugs that we would not pick....but alot of people dont do drugs. If you know so many...why? I personally couldnt tell you how many I know, if any. On the flip side, I couldnt tell you how many dont either. If I need to help someone out of an addiction I will, but I wont then say everyone is a user.
If one is using ones partner as a teacher to explain drugs being present through grades dropping etc....ask how many students grades are not dropping. How many students are still progressing. Could it be we are looking into the world with jaded glasses becasue of personal experience.
I am sorry, but I agree with those that look down upon drugs. I would go further and say I do not however look down upon the user. However....the drug is the issue, and it has no place in aviation. Consequences of ones actions must be taken into consideration. Yes, a second chance must be given, with that second chance comes a different future however. Dont dispute this one, its not worth it mate.
This forum post has obviously opened up old wounds and created fresh ones. The reality is, if I dont study, I dont get into uni. If I smoke all my life I risk the run of cancer. If I eat crap all day, I get fat. If I have sex without protection, I run the risk of STDs, and if I do drugs, I MUST DEAL WITH WHATEVER CONSEQUENCES THAT ENTAILS. Grow up, take responsibilty and stop asking for your life back. It was you who took it away in the first place.
Once again, a second chance is and should always be given. In some circumstances it cannot be the same as before one "stuffed" up. What would happen to society if there were no repercussions for ones actions or desicions. Any parent of a growing toddler teaches this. DOnt touch that....its hot. You cannot take the burn away when they do.
Thanks for all the fish.
Note to sunfish...I wont reply to you comments. That is my opinion and morals. I see no need to justify as you keep doing. Once again though as others have said amd I am sure all agree.... I am sorry for you family situation. Truly. I cannot imagine how hard that is.
Regards.
If one is using ones partner as a teacher to explain drugs being present through grades dropping etc....ask how many students grades are not dropping. How many students are still progressing. Could it be we are looking into the world with jaded glasses becasue of personal experience.
I am sorry, but I agree with those that look down upon drugs. I would go further and say I do not however look down upon the user. However....the drug is the issue, and it has no place in aviation. Consequences of ones actions must be taken into consideration. Yes, a second chance must be given, with that second chance comes a different future however. Dont dispute this one, its not worth it mate.
This forum post has obviously opened up old wounds and created fresh ones. The reality is, if I dont study, I dont get into uni. If I smoke all my life I risk the run of cancer. If I eat crap all day, I get fat. If I have sex without protection, I run the risk of STDs, and if I do drugs, I MUST DEAL WITH WHATEVER CONSEQUENCES THAT ENTAILS. Grow up, take responsibilty and stop asking for your life back. It was you who took it away in the first place.
Once again, a second chance is and should always be given. In some circumstances it cannot be the same as before one "stuffed" up. What would happen to society if there were no repercussions for ones actions or desicions. Any parent of a growing toddler teaches this. DOnt touch that....its hot. You cannot take the burn away when they do.
Thanks for all the fish.
Note to sunfish...I wont reply to you comments. That is my opinion and morals. I see no need to justify as you keep doing. Once again though as others have said amd I am sure all agree.... I am sorry for you family situation. Truly. I cannot imagine how hard that is.
Regards.
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Moderated drug use is no worse than the use of alcohol or cigarettes, as numerous advocates of drug prohibition here state they both use.
Here's something that the majority of you may (surprisingly) find enlightening - alcohol and nicotine are drugs as well, and if you binge drink or smoke cigarettes, you're as much of a drug addict as any other, whether you're living in denial or not.
Here's something that the majority of you may (surprisingly) find enlightening - alcohol and nicotine are drugs as well, and if you binge drink or smoke cigarettes, you're as much of a drug addict as any other, whether you're living in denial or not.
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Sunfish
Your last post I can agree with almost entirely. I do believe there should be a bigger effort from the police and government, and just as you are suggesting with the swift and harsh penalties for your kids if you catch em.......the same should apply to the big end of town. I do not think my ideas are unreasonable.
No problems here mate, thanks for the advice anyway, but it seems you have modelled your recovery process on our "General Terms and Coditions of being a family member" and so far its working! We do not wrap them in cotton wool, but we make them well aware of the big wide world.
As for Cetnik, I think good on him for going clean, but take 5 years and prove to yourself and anyone else who cares, and stay clean. Work hard. Maybe start learning to fly RAA for a start, then get serious about going for it. 2 months is not enough.
J
Your last post I can agree with almost entirely. I do believe there should be a bigger effort from the police and government, and just as you are suggesting with the swift and harsh penalties for your kids if you catch em.......the same should apply to the big end of town. I do not think my ideas are unreasonable.
Simplest solution is an immediate (and I mean immediate) change of school, immediate removal from the current circle of "friends' (most of whom will be doing stuff), close personal supervision at all times, alternative activities, strict rules and draconian penalties for misbehaviour. You would also need trained help to run such an intervention.
As for Cetnik, I think good on him for going clean, but take 5 years and prove to yourself and anyone else who cares, and stay clean. Work hard. Maybe start learning to fly RAA for a start, then get serious about going for it. 2 months is not enough.
J
Seasonally Adjusted
No one in our home uses illegal drugs. No one that comes into our home brings illegal drugs. I do not have within my circle of friends and aquaintences, those that choose to use illegal or recreational drugs.
If a friend or aquaintence of yours had stopped in Amsterdam on his or her travels through Europe, and this person chose to enjoy a small green 'ciggie' within the confines of a licensed premises, to compliment a pint of tasty German lager....what would your opinion be of them?
After all they haven't indulged in any "illegal" drugs, not if they are complying with the laws of the Netherlands. Is it only when they smoke a joint back home in Oz that they become a 'druggie'?
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Is this thread starting to get a little off track?
I'm a budding Pilot and new to PPrune but learning so much. Thanks to this post I now have another career I can pursue if the aviation industry doesn't work out.
I can deal drugs and avoid the police investigation by remaining in the level 1 and 2 area. Making sure to keep away from the level 3 guys. I didn't realise the roles were so clear cut. I wonder if they will organise a union, maybe all the level 1 and 2 guys should get together and go on strike until the level 3 guys agree to stop killing them
.
I was surprised to hear about how dirty the cops are too. Next time I get pulled over for speeding I'll just slip the Cop a $100 note and be on my merry way (save myself some demerit points).
Drugs are stupid and I agree with CWC, we make choices and we're not always aware of what the consequences of our actions will be but rest assured there will be some.
You never know, maybe one day I'll be sitting down for an interview and it will be Sunfish on the other side of the table and I won't get the job because of my light hearted comments above, then I'll be saying DAMN IT
.
Addicts normally have a supplier slightly higher up the tree that deals in slightly larger quantities, some of which they on sell to finance their own use.
You will never get much past the second level of dealers without a Police investigation because while levels 1 and 2 are almost always harmless, your level 3 dealer and above will kill you without a moments thought if they feel the need to.
Even if you are aware of exactly who is dealing what, you have to think very hard before you tell the police, because there is the risk of police corruption resulting in the dealer discovering the source of the information - and this risk increases the further you go up the tree.
You will never get much past the second level of dealers without a Police investigation because while levels 1 and 2 are almost always harmless, your level 3 dealer and above will kill you without a moments thought if they feel the need to.
Even if you are aware of exactly who is dealing what, you have to think very hard before you tell the police, because there is the risk of police corruption resulting in the dealer discovering the source of the information - and this risk increases the further you go up the tree.
I can deal drugs and avoid the police investigation by remaining in the level 1 and 2 area. Making sure to keep away from the level 3 guys. I didn't realise the roles were so clear cut. I wonder if they will organise a union, maybe all the level 1 and 2 guys should get together and go on strike until the level 3 guys agree to stop killing them
.I was surprised to hear about how dirty the cops are too. Next time I get pulled over for speeding I'll just slip the Cop a $100 note and be on my merry way (save myself some demerit points).
Drugs are stupid and I agree with CWC, we make choices and we're not always aware of what the consequences of our actions will be but rest assured there will be some.
You never know, maybe one day I'll be sitting down for an interview and it will be Sunfish on the other side of the table and I won't get the job because of my light hearted comments above, then I'll be saying DAMN IT
.
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Sunfish is spot on. I can tell you, being in that age group, that some of my peers take recreational drugs on occasion and they fly as well. Their parents have absolutely no idea that their kids are taking drugs, and would be horrified if they knew. This would also be true for many parents reading this - kid's are good at hiding it, and a whole range of kids do it, including some of the brightest and most honest kids you'll meet.
People in this age group are well educated about drugs and the effects of many of the different drugs. However, many still do it despite this knowledge. I know that some of them hold Class One medicals and have lied to the DAMEs about their drug use. I know this because I have asked them and openly discussed this with them, but have been unable to dissuade them from doing drugs because they say its fun. Sunfish is right, any parents on here who know about or suspect drug use MUST support their children, not go to the police or anything stupid like that. Your kid needs help, and you are the best person to give it to them. If you draw a zero tolerance line, your child probably won't be involved if you want to help them, which will in fact mean the problem gets worse. As a friend of some of these people, I show them that I don't approve and that they should not be doing drugs, whilst still accepting them for who they are. The result I find is that they still openly talk about their drug use with me, whilst acknowledging that they should not be doing it and minimising their drug use to the odd occasion. In the end though, I can only offer my advise, they are responsible for the decisions they make in their own lives.
I also currently work at a shop where drug addicts come in every day. What I see is so sad, their lives destroyed. The addicts' parents have to live with it, the addicts' kids have to live with it, and its not fair on anyone else. I think the biggest problem with people in my age group is that they don't believe they will become addicts, full stop. They do dope, LSD, ecstasy, etc, and say they would never do something like heroin. However, this is how addictions start, just recreationally, and I hope that none of them become addicts, and stop doing them recreationally also. I do not have enough knowledge of drugs to know how the different drugs would affect their flying, however telling authorities will most likely not stop them from flying, and will destroy the relationships I do have with them, which would obviously give me less influence on minimising their drug use and guiding them in the best way I can.
Some of what I have said here will probably scare parents. Its not meant to scare you, just to keep you informed and on the lookout, so you are there to immediately provide the support you can to your kids to get them off drugs before its too late if you suspect your kid is doing drugs. Remember, you have the biggest influence of all on them, but must ultimately let them make their own decisions.
787
People in this age group are well educated about drugs and the effects of many of the different drugs. However, many still do it despite this knowledge. I know that some of them hold Class One medicals and have lied to the DAMEs about their drug use. I know this because I have asked them and openly discussed this with them, but have been unable to dissuade them from doing drugs because they say its fun. Sunfish is right, any parents on here who know about or suspect drug use MUST support their children, not go to the police or anything stupid like that. Your kid needs help, and you are the best person to give it to them. If you draw a zero tolerance line, your child probably won't be involved if you want to help them, which will in fact mean the problem gets worse. As a friend of some of these people, I show them that I don't approve and that they should not be doing drugs, whilst still accepting them for who they are. The result I find is that they still openly talk about their drug use with me, whilst acknowledging that they should not be doing it and minimising their drug use to the odd occasion. In the end though, I can only offer my advise, they are responsible for the decisions they make in their own lives.
I also currently work at a shop where drug addicts come in every day. What I see is so sad, their lives destroyed. The addicts' parents have to live with it, the addicts' kids have to live with it, and its not fair on anyone else. I think the biggest problem with people in my age group is that they don't believe they will become addicts, full stop. They do dope, LSD, ecstasy, etc, and say they would never do something like heroin. However, this is how addictions start, just recreationally, and I hope that none of them become addicts, and stop doing them recreationally also. I do not have enough knowledge of drugs to know how the different drugs would affect their flying, however telling authorities will most likely not stop them from flying, and will destroy the relationships I do have with them, which would obviously give me less influence on minimising their drug use and guiding them in the best way I can.
Some of what I have said here will probably scare parents. Its not meant to scare you, just to keep you informed and on the lookout, so you are there to immediately provide the support you can to your kids to get them off drugs before its too late if you suspect your kid is doing drugs. Remember, you have the biggest influence of all on them, but must ultimately let them make their own decisions.
787
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Having come late into this forum, I have the following that happened.I remember the day when I was a freshman out of the Ambulance service [20year old probationary] and we got patched through to attend a call of a girl found lying in a side street off from the popular nightclub in Perth. Apparently she was unconscious and unresponsive and frothing at the mouth [which isn’t a good sign]We operated under P1 conditions and another unit was dispatched to see who could attend first, we did. Upon arriving at the scene she wasn’t good – only to realise that indeed she was my girlfriend’s younger sister……. She went into shock and we had to bring her back to life two times in the alleyway. I asked her friends what she had taken and it indeed was cocaine. By this time the other paramedics arrived, we managed to stabilise her, put her in the back of the bus and rushed her off to the nearest hospital which was less than five minutes away.She didn’t last long….. Once again she crashed in the back of the bus but this time we couldn’t revive her. She was pronounced DOAI took the bullet and went around my girlfriends house [she lived with her parents] and told them of the news, as most people would they were traumatised. I later found out at the post mortems and speaking to her friends she brought this off a guy in the club and thought it would be cool. She never had taken drugs before and her body didn’t know what was happening so it shut down.She had a good career infront of her, she managed to get a part subsidised doctors degree from a leading university from her great grades from her TEE/As you now see, drugs don’t just affect you they affect everyone some with horrific consequences.I resigned from my paramedic job two weeks later…..
P>S Why now does PPrune take away the paragraphs?
P>S Why now does PPrune take away the paragraphs?
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Sigh. There are a lot of naive people here.
There are many many youths who regularly consult with medical professionals about things their parents have no knowledge of whatsoever. Physical, verbal and sexual abuse, drug use, sexual activity etc. The naivity of sweeping statements like "my teenage kids would never touch drugs" is simply astounding. Just look at the tragic example above.
That aside, this is not about the legality, ethics or morals of drug use, it's about being employed as a pilot with a history of recreational drug use. Discriminating for historical substance abuse is ILLEGAL under the Disability Discrimination Act 1992 (Commonwealth).
There are many many youths who regularly consult with medical professionals about things their parents have no knowledge of whatsoever. Physical, verbal and sexual abuse, drug use, sexual activity etc. The naivity of sweeping statements like "my teenage kids would never touch drugs" is simply astounding. Just look at the tragic example above.
That aside, this is not about the legality, ethics or morals of drug use, it's about being employed as a pilot with a history of recreational drug use. Discriminating for historical substance abuse is ILLEGAL under the Disability Discrimination Act 1992 (Commonwealth).
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'Lancer' that's quite true yr attatching that Govt law but there are more ways than one to skin a cat in the airline business to 'weed' out undesireables. Been done for decades.
CW
CW
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Another late arrival, but strewth!: I'm quite an old b*gger, and don't touch "recreational drugs" (mainly because I wouldn't really have a clue where to find them) - but what's the difference between a whatever-it-is of cocaine and half a bottle of Chevas Regal?