Pilots with history of recreational drug use.Do I stand a chance?
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Let's ALL Grow UP!!
OK. Where to begin. 
One doesn't want to fuel the FIRE, instead help put it out in the most diplomatic way.
Times have indeed changed and yes as sunfish tried to put it MOST of the youth of today have indeed tried/been offered a drug or at the very minimum thought about trying it. Yes, some realise their wrong doing and others don’t! I think this young gentleman has realised his errors and is keen to make a difference!
I personally have had someone very close to me work through this very situation; they have made it in this industry now working for a major Australia airline.
You have been off the stuff for 2months, excellent because, E and speed are outta the system in under 48hrs, with absolutely no trace! [Plz don’t think this allows you the opportunity to do it again, as random testing will catch you out!]
My very close friend, whom i mentioned above, took in his prime 3-10 E pills a night, for a period of over 1year! He has the memory of a computer and is undoubtable normal in everything he does! So it will not affect your ability to do the job. [Again, Plz don’t think this allows you the opportunity to do it again, as random testing will catch you out!]
A True FACT is No-body knows unless you tell them, like everything only say what has to be said. BUT if you do go back (or even think you will), then you should immediately think of another career choice! We don’t want nor need druggo's in this industry, plus you will get caught, so why waste the time and money! [HOWEVER! Don't feel like you have to distance yourself from events you used to consumed the drugs at, there are great substitutes such as RED BULL, V or any sports drink for that!! Just make your friends aware of this new goal of yours, if they are real mates they will support you and by you still spending time with them you will feel no immediate loss and maybe like my friend mentioned above you will see how silly it was in the first place, at the same time showing your mates a new path to take.]
I have met in Australia/NZ alone, in excess of 10 professional pilots whom used to and in the correct company recall taking such illegal items. In some cases it was what has made them who they are today. [Life experience can be invaluable, u now have more than some other pilots, use it to your advantage and make sure you NEVER LOOK BACK!] Absolutely no one should be crucified for changing a bad habit and moving on with their life!!
I agree with Sunfish get another username and maybe alter your D.O.B. as people will not take long to put 2n2 together, aviation is SO SOOO small worldwide. Not to mention, don’t talk to anyone in the industry about these previous habits, same as my last comment, word travels so fast in this industry, as you will quickly learn.
OutKast you said it 'I have never touched drugs either and yet I think that amongst my non-aviation friends that I probably would be the only one that hasn't', this is as true for me as you and all the people I asked at work today.
Now I am sure everyone will think F100 or B717 has posted his first post, indeed he has, but not to be a smart ass nor a sneaky NZ'r. Simply to provide some facts and information that may one day allow someone whom has a much undesirable past the opportunity to play in the FL's as many of us do daily! I want to remind you all that I AM TOTALLY AGAINST DRUGS, but I believe that everyone deserves a chance, n even a second chance!
All the best mate. I would fly with you any day.
One doesn't want to fuel the FIRE, instead help put it out in the most diplomatic way.
Times have indeed changed and yes as sunfish tried to put it MOST of the youth of today have indeed tried/been offered a drug or at the very minimum thought about trying it. Yes, some realise their wrong doing and others don’t! I think this young gentleman has realised his errors and is keen to make a difference!
I personally have had someone very close to me work through this very situation; they have made it in this industry now working for a major Australia airline.
You have been off the stuff for 2months, excellent because, E and speed are outta the system in under 48hrs, with absolutely no trace! [Plz don’t think this allows you the opportunity to do it again, as random testing will catch you out!]
My very close friend, whom i mentioned above, took in his prime 3-10 E pills a night, for a period of over 1year! He has the memory of a computer and is undoubtable normal in everything he does! So it will not affect your ability to do the job. [Again, Plz don’t think this allows you the opportunity to do it again, as random testing will catch you out!]
A True FACT is No-body knows unless you tell them, like everything only say what has to be said. BUT if you do go back (or even think you will), then you should immediately think of another career choice! We don’t want nor need druggo's in this industry, plus you will get caught, so why waste the time and money! [HOWEVER! Don't feel like you have to distance yourself from events you used to consumed the drugs at, there are great substitutes such as RED BULL, V or any sports drink for that!! Just make your friends aware of this new goal of yours, if they are real mates they will support you and by you still spending time with them you will feel no immediate loss and maybe like my friend mentioned above you will see how silly it was in the first place, at the same time showing your mates a new path to take.]
I have met in Australia/NZ alone, in excess of 10 professional pilots whom used to and in the correct company recall taking such illegal items. In some cases it was what has made them who they are today. [Life experience can be invaluable, u now have more than some other pilots, use it to your advantage and make sure you NEVER LOOK BACK!] Absolutely no one should be crucified for changing a bad habit and moving on with their life!!
I agree with Sunfish get another username and maybe alter your D.O.B. as people will not take long to put 2n2 together, aviation is SO SOOO small worldwide. Not to mention, don’t talk to anyone in the industry about these previous habits, same as my last comment, word travels so fast in this industry, as you will quickly learn.
OutKast you said it 'I have never touched drugs either and yet I think that amongst my non-aviation friends that I probably would be the only one that hasn't', this is as true for me as you and all the people I asked at work today.
Now I am sure everyone will think F100 or B717 has posted his first post, indeed he has, but not to be a smart ass nor a sneaky NZ'r. Simply to provide some facts and information that may one day allow someone whom has a much undesirable past the opportunity to play in the FL's as many of us do daily! I want to remind you all that I AM TOTALLY AGAINST DRUGS, but I believe that everyone deserves a chance, n even a second chance!
All the best mate. I would fly with you any day.
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First I want to thank all who have posted in response to my query.I appreciate it, even if some were quite disheartening I still respect an honest opinion.But to all the guys/gals who posted positive responses, I'm truly thankfull.You have really lifted my spirit.
I probably should've been more discrete as to where I stand and my intentions.I do realise what I done and the best I can do now is take it as an expirience and bring it over to my kids etc. in a preventative manner.As for jumping straight into it just because it could be a great job, that's arguable as I do admit that I imagen it to be a great job.But I've flown with my mates dad before more then a couple of times in the last couple of years and also went for a trial flight a month ago.I never thought it was an achievable career so it was automatically erased out of my mind as an option/opportunity(not that I think it's easy but it sure is more possible then i had imagened in the past).Another concern on minds would of coarse be flying whilst still using, to which I can't stress enough that it's unimaginable and beyond irresponsible, to me at least as this isn't just my life I'd be putting in danger but other peoples lives too at that.So that shouldn't even cross ones mind.My parents would probably be ready to help me out with most of the costs but I know that they're not exactly wealthy..mortgage etc..I'm lucky to have such great parents and I'm humble.So anyway I intend on working as a bricky with dad for atleast another year to save as much as I possibly can.Last year I saved almost 9k which will now obviously come in handy.This is a turning point in my life, I now have something to work towards and my life is actually on the right path.
Thank you again to everyone
all the best as I'm now taking the obvious advice and changing my nickname
cetnik
I probably should've been more discrete as to where I stand and my intentions.I do realise what I done and the best I can do now is take it as an expirience and bring it over to my kids etc. in a preventative manner.As for jumping straight into it just because it could be a great job, that's arguable as I do admit that I imagen it to be a great job.But I've flown with my mates dad before more then a couple of times in the last couple of years and also went for a trial flight a month ago.I never thought it was an achievable career so it was automatically erased out of my mind as an option/opportunity(not that I think it's easy but it sure is more possible then i had imagened in the past).Another concern on minds would of coarse be flying whilst still using, to which I can't stress enough that it's unimaginable and beyond irresponsible, to me at least as this isn't just my life I'd be putting in danger but other peoples lives too at that.So that shouldn't even cross ones mind.My parents would probably be ready to help me out with most of the costs but I know that they're not exactly wealthy..mortgage etc..I'm lucky to have such great parents and I'm humble.So anyway I intend on working as a bricky with dad for atleast another year to save as much as I possibly can.Last year I saved almost 9k which will now obviously come in handy.This is a turning point in my life, I now have something to work towards and my life is actually on the right path.
Thank you again to everyone
all the best as I'm now taking the obvious advice and changing my nickname
cetnik
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Mr Milk
About the only job in aviation I can think of letting one of your dopie mates have is the office cleaner!
I would not want loading, refuelling, fixing, flying etc done by anyone not on their game!
And no I do not share your thoughts about most here are religous plane spotters on airliners.net, probably most of us actually fly something.
J
About the only job in aviation I can think of letting one of your dopie mates have is the office cleaner!
I would not want loading, refuelling, fixing, flying etc done by anyone not on their game!
And no I do not share your thoughts about most here are religous plane spotters on airliners.net, probably most of us actually fly something.
J
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F100 or B717, Binos, Ganker, G Cantstanya.
This thread is no place for intelligent compassionate worldly advice!
This thread is for mercilessly flaming a young kid who made a mistake!
(Wouldn't this have been a fun one in the 'ol Agony Aunt forum !?!
)
This thread is no place for intelligent compassionate worldly advice!
This thread is for mercilessly flaming a young kid who made a mistake!
(Wouldn't this have been a fun one in the 'ol Agony Aunt forum !?!
)
As for those who vehemently say they never touched this stuff, well, you would say that if you were in the aviation industry wouldn't you? How could we know? You must have lived a very sheltered life.
I remember discussing this subject with my local GP in an extremely nice part of Melbourne. He told me that there would not be one street in Toorak, Armadale and Malvern that didn't have at least one heroin addict in it. As for marijuana use amongst private schools, it's out of control and has been that way for at least ten years. Then of course there is the club scene with extacy and ice.
As I said before, Dope and other drugs are easier for a kid to acquire than cigarettes and alcohol, and I'm speaking from very bitter, expensive and personal experience in having to deal with the consequences of this stuff as a parent. As I said, I don't believe that there are any teenagers who haven't tried it - and that comes from experience.
I remember discussing this subject with my local GP in an extremely nice part of Melbourne. He told me that there would not be one street in Toorak, Armadale and Malvern that didn't have at least one heroin addict in it. As for marijuana use amongst private schools, it's out of control and has been that way for at least ten years. Then of course there is the club scene with extacy and ice.
As I said before, Dope and other drugs are easier for a kid to acquire than cigarettes and alcohol, and I'm speaking from very bitter, expensive and personal experience in having to deal with the consequences of this stuff as a parent. As I said, I don't believe that there are any teenagers who haven't tried it - and that comes from experience.
Guys......chill and give this guy a chance. He is reaching out and asking for advice.....about how he can try and achieve his dream (not unlike a lot of us on here)........its just that he's been naieve enough to ask for advice on prune, Go figure?
As for all the preachers about illegal drugs........legal ones (Alcohol, Nicotine), are costing us $56 Billion a year in associated costs (reported earlier this week). Why is it that pilots think and even encourage binge drinking; and yet were a person to say "no thanks i just had a smoke, and i don't drink".......they would be frowned upon. Seems hipocritical.......especially when heaps of guys i've worked with use "No-Doe's", Sudafed, plus copius ammounts of coffee to stay awake, and then take sleeping tablets to go to sleep. Its a crazy mixed up world!!!
2 cents.
As for all the preachers about illegal drugs........legal ones (Alcohol, Nicotine), are costing us $56 Billion a year in associated costs (reported earlier this week). Why is it that pilots think and even encourage binge drinking; and yet were a person to say "no thanks i just had a smoke, and i don't drink".......they would be frowned upon. Seems hipocritical.......especially when heaps of guys i've worked with use "No-Doe's", Sudafed, plus copius ammounts of coffee to stay awake, and then take sleeping tablets to go to sleep. Its a crazy mixed up world!!!
2 cents.
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Military??
There is too much military influence in civil aviation, and one of these influences is drinking alcohol. A small ammount of alcohol can be beneficial, but too much is VERY harmful. Alcohol is one of Australia's most harmful drugs, and the Australian Government earns lots of money from the sale of alcohol. You could say the Australian government is involved in drug dealing, both alcohol and nicotine.
The military?? Well the military people often have to handle terrible situations, and do terrible things. They don't want their people thinking too much, so they use alcohol to keep their people "fat, dumb, and happy"
This is not appropriate in civil aviation.
The military?? Well the military people often have to handle terrible situations, and do terrible things. They don't want their people thinking too much, so they use alcohol to keep their people "fat, dumb, and happy"
This is not appropriate in civil aviation.
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I'm not condoning drug use, but I think many posters need to be more pragmatic here! How many have a real medical understanding of what the long term effects of recreational use of speed and 'e' on weekends for a year actually is? As SUIYA posted earlier (but overlooked), CASA only considers a current substance abuse disorder. Discriminating for historical substance abuse is illegal under the Disability Discrimination Act 1992 (Cwlth).
If you are clean - good on you. Stay that way. Listen to the medical professionals more than the pilot professionals about moving forward in your life.
If you are clean - good on you. Stay that way. Listen to the medical professionals more than the pilot professionals about moving forward in your life.
Last edited by *Lancer*; 10th Apr 2008 at 03:59.
I'm speaking from very bitter, expensive and personal experience in having to deal with the consequences of this stuff as a parent. As I said, I don't believe that there are any teenagers who haven't tried it - and that comes from experience.
How F
ing dare you accuse me, or anyone else for that matter, in such a manner. You know nothing of me, or anyone else in here; nothing about my background, my upbringing. NOTHING!Only a fool would be ignorant of the fact that drug use is widespread, but accusatory generalisation like that is fraught with danger.
Don't tar everyone with the same brush just because you're bent out of shape about something that went tits-up in your own life. I really have neither the need, nor indeed the desire to know anything about you, in fact, I couldn't give a
Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 10th Apr 2008 at 05:09.
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Yeah. Lets all give junkies a second chance huh? What message does that send to others contemplating drugs? It tells them "go ahead, try it! You'll get a second chance". This is probably why a lot more young people are trying drugs nowadays. NOT ALL, as Sunfish would have you believe. Again, there is no room in this industry for people who's minds are that unstable that they resort to drugs. I mite add that I am NOT religious either in fact, I am extremely anti religion.
Why send out the message that it's OK to experiment with drugs by giving these low life's a second chance?
Why send out the message that it's OK to experiment with drugs by giving these low life's a second chance?
Sorry if you are upset Atlas and NAS but if you had any experience dealing in detail day to day with the subject you pontificate on, you couldn't possibly be offended by my generalisation. You would discover that drug abuse and experimentation is extremely widespread among all levels of society."Normal" people do drugs too, so your shock horror and outrage are totally and completely misplaced.
To say "I don't believe there are any teenagers who haven't tried it", is in my way of thinking no different to saying "I don't believe there are any teenagers who haven't picked their nose, farted in bed or lost their virginity before age 18" who cares? I don't care if you have used drugs or you haven't. Why would I? Usage is too common these days to get upset about it, and getting upset and closing your mind to it merely delays solution of the problem and maximises the damage to you and other people. Sure, initially I was shocked and outraged at the extent of the problem, but after a while I realised the size and nature of the subculture involved.
You obviously don't understand that the professionals in the field are quite blase about drug abuse. Many doctors, lawyers, accountants, public servants, ministers of religion, politicians, high profile business leaders, and, yes, even allegedly judges use drugs, and I assume pilots are no different. It's not just some Bogan/ Lebbos underclass (to which you have no doubt consigned Chetnik) who do this stuff.
Ever seen a guy in a three piece suit or a well dressed lady coming in for their daily methadone? I have. Ever seen a beautiful and very expensive Toorak home where the children are drug dealers and have their own motorcycle gang minders - with their parents permission? I have. Ever met the nice little lad who will deliver your drugs to your door in a black BMW with one phone call? Did you know that you can have a perfectly normal life doing highly complex technical tasks while using heroin? Provided it is pure enough of course. It's the dirty stuff like dope, ice, eckies, cocaine and even codeine(a very nasty addiction) that cause behavioural problems.
So I'm afraid I don't do fake outrage over drug use. It's rife. I've had to deal with that. I would imagine the imminent introduction of random drug testing by CASA will produce results consistent with the rest of the general population because I don't think pilots are any different, and there are bound to be a few who ingest illegal substances and think that it has no effect (or even a beneficial effect) on their skills.
Give Cetnik a break and cut some slack. I only hope you never have to learn what I had to learn.
NAS:
You obviously know nothing about behavioural science do you?
My guess is that after a number of very expensively trained and very busy pilots working for household name companies are suddenly removed from the pilot pool due to random testing, the industry and CASA will develop similar protocols and systems as used to deal with alcoholism.
experience dealing in detail day to day with the subject you pontificate on, you couldn't possibly be offended by my generalisation. You would discover that drug abuse and experimentation is extremely widespread among all levels of society."Normal" people do drugs too, so your shock horror and outrage are totally and completely misplaced.To say "I don't believe there are any teenagers who haven't tried it", is in my way of thinking no different to saying "I don't believe there are any teenagers who haven't picked their nose, farted in bed or lost their virginity before age 18" who cares? I don't care if you have used drugs or you haven't. Why would I? Usage is too common these days to get upset about it, and getting upset and closing your mind to it merely delays solution of the problem and maximises the damage to you and other people. Sure, initially I was shocked and outraged at the extent of the problem, but after a while I realised the size and nature of the subculture involved.
You obviously don't understand that the professionals in the field are quite blase about drug abuse. Many doctors, lawyers, accountants, public servants, ministers of religion, politicians, high profile business leaders, and, yes, even allegedly judges use drugs, and I assume pilots are no different. It's not just some Bogan/ Lebbos underclass (to which you have no doubt consigned Chetnik) who do this stuff.
Ever seen a guy in a three piece suit or a well dressed lady coming in for their daily methadone? I have. Ever seen a beautiful and very expensive Toorak home where the children are drug dealers and have their own motorcycle gang minders - with their parents permission? I have. Ever met the nice little lad who will deliver your drugs to your door in a black BMW with one phone call? Did you know that you can have a perfectly normal life doing highly complex technical tasks while using heroin? Provided it is pure enough of course. It's the dirty stuff like dope, ice, eckies, cocaine and even codeine(a very nasty addiction) that cause behavioural problems.
So I'm afraid I don't do fake outrage over drug use. It's rife. I've had to deal with that. I would imagine the imminent introduction of random drug testing by CASA will produce results consistent with the rest of the general population because I don't think pilots are any different, and there are bound to be a few who ingest illegal substances and think that it has no effect (or even a beneficial effect) on their skills.
Give Cetnik a break and cut some slack. I only hope you never have to learn what I had to learn.
NAS:
Again, there is no room in this industry for people who's minds are that unstable that they resort to drugs.
My guess is that after a number of very expensively trained and very busy pilots working for household name companies are suddenly removed from the pilot pool due to random testing, the industry and CASA will develop similar protocols and systems as used to deal with alcoholism.
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Then lets hope you pass a random drug test
YOUR attitude is out of touch Sunfish. Not everyone resorts to drugs. Are you trying to justify your own drug use through attempting to accuse every person as having experimented at least once?
You can accuse me, (through accusing everyone), of trying some illicit substance at least once however, I KNOW that I have never ever tried ANY illicit drug. I know this and that's all that matters. Plenty of other viewers of these threads are in the same boat.
But if accusing everyone of trying drugs keeps you happy in your own little world, so be it.
Oh and I probably know as much about behavioral science as you. Take that however you please.
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Oh, and while I am here, maybe your attitude will change if you are mugged by a junkie or your house is broken into by a junkie.
Then I suppose your solution to that would be to legalise illicit drugs so that the junkies can afford them?
Then I suppose your solution to that would be to legalise illicit drugs so that the junkies can afford them?
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Dare you to mention Qantas & Sydney in the same sentence now sunfish haha 
And yes Sunfish I've known some very respected professionals in the community who are 'recreational' drug users, and I am understanding the gist of what you are trying to say.
Behavioral science
I'd have to look that one up 
And yes Sunfish I've known some very respected professionals in the community who are 'recreational' drug users, and I am understanding the gist of what you are trying to say.
Behavioral science
I'd have to look that one up