Is the 'Senior Officer' who makes these statements the same Wg Cdr Trevor 'Comical Ali' Field who tried to play down the problems earlier?


Meals + Mail + Money = Morale. Never meddle with that fundamental concept!

Sorry guys to disagree but after initial teething problems I have been pleasantly surprised how easy the system is to use. I have managed to have my pay split and submitted a career break application - plus HTD was a cinch.:D

I'm Stunned
 

A mere 3 months after being told i would be rung inside 2 days, and after me ringing them 3 other times, to correct my pay grade, they have rung and told me my pay will be correct by the end of July:} . I did have the gaul to ask if i would get a mid month payment for the outstanding amount, to which i was told "we don't do mid monthly payments".

Since when, who said so, why wasn't i immediately informed. Oh sorry i forgot "Service before Self". Must keep that at the fore front of my thinking or i might get upset at not being paid properly.

Hey, who is claiming Service before Self. That is almost Rotary International's year motto - Service above Self. They want to watch it, we'll do 'em for copyright infringement.




Ooops, sorry, I forgot, there is no one at home to take the blame.

Two possibilities spring to mind. One is that your 'update' didn't make it all the way to the server. When you checked after updating it was in cache but you logged out or switched off before the cache was cleared.

The other is a simple system glitch (ie finger trouble) that now, after 10 years I can confess to. Simply your information got through and was held in the current store but someone managed to restore the system to a point before your update and then failed (that's what I did) to add in the latest temporary cache files.

These are of course pure guesses as I have no idea how the system is actually supposed to work but it would be well to check the next day after the overnight backup run.

Who's the lucky one then? They actually called you back :bored:
A collegue in the same office as me has had pay problems for the last 2 months and has been ringing the JPAC every week since the beginning, they would promise to call back, (within 2 days, then 24 hrs then 2 hours, which they never did!) would pass him from pillar to post give a different excuse everytime, tell him he wasn't the only one with problems. (Do you really give a damn who else has problems when you are £300 pounds down?)
Finally he spoke (yet again) to the desk and the young lady told him that 'THEY DON'T DEAL WITH PAY MATTERS!!!!!!!' and he should talk to his local HR (PSF). Off he trundled to HQ and low and behold they could access the system and make the required changes!
Turns out he had been put on a course and moved into the barrack block, (on paper) when he already had a married quarter on camp. Of course they had started charging him food and accomodation and never bothered to take him off at the end of the course. Not that they should have moved him in in the first place.

As for 'Service before self' well I think you can all guess the point of view taken by those of us at the grindstone. "S:oh: :oh: :oh: w them!" If they want to run a business best they get some real managers in and start considering their planning strategy's. Just don't get me started on the T93 radar.

LoL better shut up now someone else might have something to say!

Have a good un!

EDS are to get a lot of money from MoD

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/200...6/eds_dii_vii/

I hope you find the following reply dated 27 June 2006 useful:

That is a good one, and one that they frequently fall back on. You have to supply all of your financial details to the MOD accountants, and they take six months to come back with a derisory offer, normally based around a nominal percentage rate. In truth, unless you have lost out financially on a pretty major scale (loss of interest per day is normally minimal, financial penalties incurred for non-payment are straightforward, and they will try and claim that your spending record did not guarantee that you could have met the bills anyway!), there is very little you can do - but be sure to check your Experian credit records if you have had bills bounced by the bank through lack of funds. This will move you into areas of compensation because your damaged credit record (ie reputation) is the fault of JPA.

In truth, heads should roll because it's been a cock up from conception to birth, but we all know that never happens. It should not be a major task to call in some of the trained desk-bunny accountants (that the MOD paid to be trained) to check out the accounts that people claim are incorrect, and to apply a payment and corrective action. All the time we can fund MBAs, Uni break years, sabbaticals, senior management jollies, sorry, courses, etc, then we should be able to ensure that those bearing the weight are paid correctly.

JPA - Rumbled
 

Read Alex Masterley in the Business Section of the Daily Telegraph today. Brilliant.

It covers replacement of forms, reduction of Admin, covers Pompey's comments and has a great punchline, the lead in to which is:

"The impossibly comlicated one for people to reclaim their expenses on?"

The relevant bit here is the 'nominal percentage'.

Ok, this is big bucks and long time, but £1000 per year over 12 years eventually led to MOD paying out £35000. Part of the bill was for the plaintiffs' experts in challenging the ministry on the appropriate daily rate of interest over 12 years. Naturally the MOD offered interest at the lowest annual rate whereas the plaintiffs claimed, and won, a signifigantly larger sum.

For JPA claims I believe the MOD would be hard pressed to refuse to pay out at the Customs and Revenue Interest rate which is actually quite generous. In their case though you have to make an involuntary loan for 12 months :).

So, in addition to any expenses, including fees for checking Experian etc, and bank charges, you should also be looking for loss of interest (you should pay tax on the interest of course).

Say you were planning to pay for a £1000 holiday and your pay is short over the period by £1000 then the interest you would claim would be that associated with paying for that holiday - say 1-2% per month.

Don't claim, don't want. Don't want, don't get.

Good old JPA, was wondering it where it had slipped to.

Bank error in your favour, collect 2 lots of pay, but only the portion to my overseas bank not my UK bank - only one set of pay to the UK! Oh, and no pay statement yet!

hey

its been a while so i thought i would update you on my JPA woes

well on the HTD front I went back over to my scribbly (this is my fourth time since 21st of feb) , told them i moved out and still wasnt getting my HTD for the last four and a half months, took me and the scribbly 2hours just to allow my address to changed and serveral phone calls to the "unhelpful" desk. Then I discovered that my scribbly could have changed the system so i got my HTD from the 1st April, but i have to wait until the paperwork goes through the "system", that and the 150 the RAF owe me for accomidation charges. However on checking my JPA account am still not eligble for HTD. If i dont see the money in next months pay packet am gonna ask for some sort of redress. I mean its not like its a lot of money to me only 281 quid a month!
Does anyone know why we get taxed on HTD? according to JPA we do? thoughts/advice greatly accepted.

On the leave front, its ace, JPA doesnt acknowledge my leaving date of the 1st Oct, and no one either in PSF or JPA has bothered to sort my leave balance out, result?No one either my line manager, JPA or PSf knows how many days entitlement i have, advice from the scribblies "stick in your passes to your boss on a F295A for the number of days you think have left"

Employment Prefrences:

Being fed up with JPA F:mad:king my life around , I decided to amuse myself with the system, so my areas of employment prefreneces are Cannada/Austrailia/Brussells(NATO) and my employment prefrences are CAS (RAF) /Forward Air Controller (RAF) / War Fighting Policy Writer (RN)

Well my basic training instructor always said aim high lol so I am currently awaiting a phone call telling me am invited to high wycombe to have a infrmal job interview over a cup of earl grey with the CAS........


..... either that or a snot-o-gram from JPA

According to the Allowances JSP 752 on the JPA website it isn't

Perhaps JPA have incorrectly identified their elbow.:}

Still waiting for my HTD to resume following the introduction of JPA:ugh:

promotion boards
 

Now this may just be conjecture, rumour etc... but a certain trades promotion board results have been delayed (yes they may be a blunt trade but they keep the A/C flying :} ), 'due to unforseen circumstances'.

I wonder if moving accross to a 'new and improved system' :bored: has any bearing on this?

Latest PQ
 

From Hansard:

Latest Parliamentary Question re JPA, 3 Jul


Joint Personnel Administration
Mr. Harper: To ask the Secretary of Statefor Defence (1) how many former RAF personnel (a) pensions payments and (b) redundancy payments have been missed since 20 March 2006 under Joint
3 July 2006 : Column 711W
Personnel Administration; and how many are still awaiting payment; [79658]

(2) how many complaints have been received from members of the armed forces about Joint Personnel Administration; [79659]

(3) why RAF personnel were not paid correctly under Joint Personnel Administration; and what action his Department has taken to rectify that situation; [79660]

(4) what he has identified as the main obstacles to the full roll out of Joint Personnel Administration; and what steps his Department is taking to overcome these obstacles; [79824]

(5) how many (a) salary and (b) expense payments to serving RAF personnel have been missed since20 March under Joint Personnel Administration; and how many are still awaiting payment; [79663]

(6) how many people will be remunerated by the Joint Personnel Administration once it is fully rolled out to all services. [79665]

Mr. Watson: Due to the increased numbers of those leaving the RAF in April as a result of the recent redundancy exercise, coupled with the rollout of JPA at the same time, it was not possible to process all terminal grant payments, Special capital payments and pension payments within the normal five days target. During April and May some 1,830 awards were processed for those leaving the RAF, of which 1,395 were paid outside of the five-day target from being discharged. However, in all but six cases payments were made within 30 days, with the remainder paid shortly thereafter. There are now no outstanding payments.

The first JPA payroll in April successfully delivered pay, including allowances and charges to the vast majority of RAF personnel (42,104 out of 48,743). The 6,639 pay inaccuracies (over and underpayments) were caused by several factors: some were due to existing data errors transferred over from the legacy systems, some were input errors, and some were discrepancies in flying pay. The majority of flying pay was correctly paid by 2 May; a small number of RAF personnel were paid their April entitlement in their May payments. The second (May) payroll has been much more successful with only some 1,175 personnel still affected by pay inaccuracies.

Some salary payments were late as a result of the simultaneous introduction of a new system of overseas bank payments. Overseas payments were achieved within a few days of the due date and alternative local cash payments were arranged. There have also been some difficulties with the automated payment of expenses for official journeys. In April these affected nearly 4,000 personnel and in May approximately 600.

The total number of personnel JPA will pay once it is fully rolled out is approximately 280,000. The Armed Forces Personnel Administration Agency has received some 14 pieces of ministerial correspondence on behalf of constituents. As at 21 June 2006 there have been no formal grievances from individual users about JPA.

Full roll-out of JPA is dependent upon the Defence Information Infrastructure (DII) programme. Alternative business processes are being developed for those who will not have self-service access when JPA goes live to their service.


Regards

Ginseng

Almost Done, it's not rumour it's definitely true. I speak from experience!

I was also told it was due to "computer problems during data migration".

Still, it's not the winning, it's the taking part....

Just a quick question for those of you in the know.

When I leave on Sep 30th (HOORAY) will JPA have anything to do with paying my pension or gratuity? I really hope not, as I need the money

Well I have not been paid flying pay for 2 months now. Allegedly it will be fixed in the next week. I am also charged for a furnished quarter (I live in unfurnished) and I have been paid my LSSA twice (eased the burden of last months lack of flying pay.
All this has come at a most difficult time workwise and I have had to waste about 3 hours trying to get through to the JPA helpline and get a sensible answer. (I was told that as I 'm in a temporary post - on a course - and therefore should contact my career manager whoever he is!) At least I do have access to JPA and the helpline though.
I think JPA is a good idea in principle but the implementation has been shocking. It is the quickest way to destroy morale - don't pay people and make it near impossible for them to get it sorted out.:ugh:

Still waiting for my LSA details to be sorted - since May. Submitted an SR or whatever they are called, never heard anything back from them. So much for we will get back to you the next working day.

Interestingly enough, I hit the PVR button today, just out of curiosity rather than a burning desire to PVR, despite everything else that is happening. It came up with "Career Manager not found ". Just about says it all really :\

Cannot understand the new pay chits at all. For some reason my quarters and garage charges filled the page for varying lengths of time in Jun from 4 days (shortest) to 10 days (longest) Whats all that about?:confused: On the other hand, when it has a mind to, it seems to pay allowance claims bloody quick.

flying pay and jsp 754
 

Having waited nearly 3 months to find out why I have not moved onto the higher rate NCA flying pay band, imagine my surprise when I eventually receive a call from the JPAC informing me that JSP754 came into effect on 1st April and the rules have now changed. I am no longer entitled to the higher rate flying pay for another 3 years.

Anybody out there in the same situation? Yet another example of penny pinching. Is the change in pay a legal one? any ideas? :mad:

If you have been away on courses or out of country the periods will (should) coincide. Told that today from my HR staff.

Mine is the same and does coincide with time away.

If your original date to move onto the higher rate predates 1 Apr, then you should have been placed on wef that date, and the change in rules should have allowed you a transitional phase.

If you qualified after 1 Apr, then they have just found another way of shafting you. But sideways.

ExJAFAD,
Thanks for the info on how quarters rent appears on the payslip. It does correlate (June was a v busy month!). However, given that I pay quarters 31/31 regardless of whether I am home or not, it does seem a bit of an odd way of doing it. Perhaps they have in mind a future where we don't get charged if we are away .......:p

FIN

JPA are we nearly there yet??!!
 

Just spoken to my PSF (Sorry Unit HR Staff) regarding my back pay that is due to me from my move to the higher pay band after completing 10 weeks training at RAF Cosford, found out that although I completed the course on the 17 Feb 06 allowing for the award of my new Q annotation and move to higher pay band, Cosford did not sign off my f292 until the 8 of May 06 and then it has of course hit JPA and the Cluster that has arised from this. I ask an open question to you all, is there any way I can address a formal complaint as to why it is now Jul and I am not being paid my correct daily rate of pay. I have been told by my HR staff that 3000 plus "inputs" to JPA are being processed at this moment, by 2 staff from my unit that have had to be attached from Northern Ireland to Innsworth to help out!!. All I want at the end of the day is to receive what I am entitled to as has been said on this thread they are quick enough to take it off you!! start giving it back. I have two civilian staff under my command and if I donot supply a tea bar or "smoke area" I get shafted by Civi Admin....(My apologies to civilian staff on this thread") but it is very frustrating now as I believe that Most service personnel and their spouses are being "patient" with this whole F up now!!, any guidance for what I can do now is greatly appreciated..

Quote:

The Armed Forces Personnel Administration Agency has received some 14 pieces of ministerial correspondence on behalf of constituents




Then I guess it is time you all wrote to your local member and increase this stat.


Does anyone have a simple template to copy for all to use and submit?

I have to say that we in the senior service are dreading the 26 October (bit of a strange date to start buggering about with yer pay).

But at the end of the day it seems to me as though we are wasting a lot of money here. At the moment a Killick writer does my pay. She is very good at it, trained and experienced. She gets paid IRO £60-80 a day to make sure my pay gets into the bank ontime and in the correct rig. From October, I will have to do it. Im not trained, I'm inexperienced and get paid well over £150 a day. Where is the cost saving in that?

The cost saving is that the Killick does more than your pay, so if you do your own work, she is not required, therefore most of her £80 per day will be saved. :ugh:

As you do not do much work for your £150 then making you do a bit of her job has double payback.;)

Sounds good. So JPA is saving the MOD a wadge of spondoolies every month. Good. What shall we spend it on?

MP's
 

Waste of time. Using a template will receive a standard / template style response. Far better to raise / refer any specific concerns. IMO writing to your MP or PM is over rated.
Process goes as follows. You write to him/her, his / her PA writes 2 line note forwarding your letter to Defence Minister, Ministers outer office intercept letter pass to MoD Parliamentary Branch, who will forward to AFPAA. AFPAA drafts response, pass back to Parliamentary Branch, they send to Minister who signs letter & sends to MP who passes to you. You might as well write to AFPAA direct. Better still complain to RAF chain of command / RAF News or local media. Remember CE AFPAA is answerable to the Service chiefs / public pressure.
(No I don't work in AFPAA Secretariat or with JPA but I did use to perform similar work in another Government Department).

Other things of lesser importance:

Check your competencies - I have 42(!), including CR pilot and flying supervisor despite the fact I have never flown a military aeroplane. Should I query my flying pay?:8

Medical details either don't exist or are wrong. I only hope that, when I get shot in the desert, the medics don't give me A+ blood when my blood group is actually O-.

How much leave have you got? Done to death on the previous pages.

If you are a shift worker, how do you claim your food charges back in your "3 off"?

As a line manager, I have no indication whether an individual has actually put in his 'leave pass' without actually going to look for the info. Consequently, we have set up a parallel system for ensuring that individuals have taken authorised absence. (PS. The JPAC solution was to disable all self-authorisations. Doesn't that take us back to SAMA?)

When does my CCS/Medical/Innoculation/Fitness Test currency run out? I suspect there are a number of COs who no longer know the 'Warfighting status' of their unit.

If you are an NCO and have been given re-engagement leave on promotion, there is no record as to whether you have taken these 20 days in the last five years. my advice, plead innocent and get yourself another 20 days leave.

Bored now. Got to go to work and check my "Workflow Notifications".

Too late - the MOD has already taken the savings and reallocated them to the front line - well thats what the blurb says. Not sure whose front line, clearly not Afghanistan!

Oh I don't know, I'm sure some of them were from there :hmm:

She also does duties, which will require a civvy on overtime (Flag!!!!e again). She is also multiskilled, trained to carry out tasks which cover the whole admin spectrum - she can do leave, cash accounting, discipline, legal, staffing, registry work, plus many other tasks. You get a lot for your £80 with a killick writer!

Plus some of them, when asked nicely, will make the tea!

Crikey, JPA really is bad.

Miscalculations!
 

Having just returned from the US I proceeded to do my JPA claim. I entered a CHBS hotel bill of 175 dollars and the programme then recalculated my claim in GBP using the displayed exchange rate of 0.577413 which equates to the offical rate of 1.75 dollars to the pound. The displayed converted amount which I was to recieve was 91.77. Basic maths told me that this was incorrect as sould have been exactly 100! The displayed exchange rate was correct but the calculator used a different number to process my claim - doing me out of 8.23. I reported this problem up through the helpline but have heard nothing back from them. I subsequently manually worked out each claim amount in GBP as the programmes calculator did not calculate the exchange rates correctly. It appeared to work ok on the daily subsistance page but not on CHBS bookings abroad page. I would recommend double checking each amount you are claiming in a foreign currency with the offical MOD exchange rate, and checking it against JPA. If this problem has been present since the start a lot of people could have lost a lot of money!:ugh:

The Rogue,
I think you have been paid the maximum overnight rate allowed which is $160. That works out to be the amount they paid you. I thought if it was booked through CHBS then they would pay you what it cost, not what the limit is. You need to take it up with your travel cell/etc to check. Hope this helps.

Scape
We have checked and you are right, if the booking is made through CHBS they are supposed to pay you the whole amount, which is not what the programme is doing at the moment. PSF agreed that the interim solution is to use the published rate, convert to GBP and put the claim in sterling.