So not only do you have to spend a lot of time trying to submit for an advance before going on det, then a lot of time trying to successfully complete a claim on your return, but you also have to claim for LSSA and LOA separately.

Looks like I will be keeping busy on my return for a few days thanks to JPA. It is also nice that I have now finally received my JPA advance, 3 weeks after submitting the claim and 5 days after starting the det.

Has anyone actually had JPA claim money back out of pay packets yet, because I somehow feel that the advance I applied for may stay in my bank account for a while.

Y_G

LSSA and LOA are all on the same form.

However each nightstop on a long route has a different LOA rate so 1 form for each stop is required. :ugh:

JPA is turning into a paperwork generator.

Do you have to apply for your LSA? I was on det when my LSSA stopped on the 31st Mar, got back to my parent unit on 18th May and was told by JPAC that LSA would be in my next pay packet....no surprises for guessing that it wasn't.
It's funny that when you owe the RAF money the p/work is generated straight away and deducted before you get chance to blink, but when they owe you money it takes months and god knows how many trips to PSF or HR or whatever they are calling themselves these days to try and sort it out.
Also whilst we are on the subject of pay, last April my pay was messed up and they put an extra £800 in my pay but promptly took it out again in the same pay, but I was taxed on the whole amount including NI which left me £230 short, when I queried this I was told to contact Glasgow who in turn told me to contact my unit admin who then said I had to claim a tax rebate through glasgow who told me they could only give me a rebate if i left my current employer which I thought was a bit drastic for the sake of £230. In the meantime admin gave me an advance of pay to cover the £230 which was taxed again, then promptly took it off me again in the next months pay(the whole £230 including what I had paid to the taxman). Eventually I was told by OC PSF that I would get it back in payments spread out over the next year, which i haven't, but to be honest I cannot be bothered now to chase up as they cannot be bothered to do their job and they are all totally inept and cannot be bothered to get off their shiny a:mad: and help anyone..sorry for the war and peace epic for my first post but even before JPA they couldn't be a:mad: to do their jobs properly and things will never change or as long as I have a hole in my a:mad:

This is the 3rd month in a row that my pay has been incorrect.

This is unacceptable.

I hope senior officers are taking note!

Perhaps they will when the first of them gets redressed. I think I would have looked into it if I had pay issues like some here. About 8 years ago I found myself in a similar situation to Muppetmayhem, and after 8 months it was resolved seemingly only when I threatened to redress the OC of the pay department at PMA! :*
I'm missing LSSA for a det in March, small fry compared to other peoples' woes, and have also encountered a "defensive circle" between PSF and JPAC.
What a load of crap, but at least one particular ACM has done OK out of it.:yuk:

Is this the same JPA
 

Having previously waited 23 days for a claim to be paid.

Arrived at new unit on posting (sorry re-assignment) on Tuesday 30th May. Now eligble for HTD instead of GYH. Amazed this morning (2nd June) to have already received a supplementary payment into the bank for 2 days HTD 30-31 May.

Just worried now that I will be charged for abated food at the end of the month.

Was fortunate enough to be briefing a 3* yesterday when he asked about JPA and the effects on me and my staff. In a measured and calm manner I told him I was a policy violator, now had to have my claims physically checked by a clerk I don't know, that I refused to give my wife's (partner :yuk: ) date of birth on the NOK (emergency contact) details, that my competences and education are all wrong but can't be changed but they form the basis of appointing, I'm dreading submitting impending BSA (CEA) and disturbance.

But I'm lucky as I do not face any impending dets or OOA and I'm fortunate enough to have a little emergency cash and I have constant access to to the interweb and I can plan my day around JPA at my convenience. SAC/Flt Lt Snooks, however, does not have this luxury and the constant sight of a false green on-line JPA and soothing words from 'experts' or get back in your box whingers from Trev does little to endear.

That I, a relatively senior bod chose to be critical surprised him but as he has the ears of those in the Centre, he promised to pass on my comments. I trust the man and will dispassionately press the evidence, from my perspective, to the appropriate grown ups.

I have promised that my boys and girls will not be out of pocket. So far, we have been lucky.

Well, no flying pay again, and my basic pay rate is wrong again!!! I'm going to write a letter to OC Admin tomorrow as I don't know what else I can do :ugh:

It's made the papers
 

Sorry about the late notice but the JPA disaster has made page 34 (i think) of the mail on Sunday. Apparently all the problems have been ironed out according to the Wg Cdr interviewed. That's a relief!!

If the Wg Cdr who was interviewed was referring to system availability and speed, I think he's for the most part correct. If it's anything else, he's clearly got the wrong end of the stick and is destined for greatness.

Here's the article in full. From the MoS

New RAF computer has crash landing
THE RAF has been hit by a crippling computer crash that has left thousands of airmen without wages and expenses.
Pilots and ground crew in Iraq and Afghanistan are among those affected. A new £100million system, introduced by former Defence Secretary John Reid and designed to simplify paying 48,000 RAF men and women around the world, failed on launch two months ago.
Defence Ministers wanted it to cover every member of the Armed Forces within months. Instead the RAF has had to organise emergency pay-runs to help staff and their families.
The Joint Personnel Administration system (JPA) was designed to be fully interactive, allowing airmen to access their affairs online.
But despite a five-year project between the MoD and the system’s supplier, US conglomerate EDS, the sheer volume of users logging on to the network caused it to crash.
Last night an RAF source described the situation as ‘chaos’, adding: ‘This was to be a moment of glory for the MoD but it has been a disaster.’
RAF spokesman Wing Commander Trevor Field said: ‘Everyone affected should now have received any missed payments.’



Nice to see Wg Cmdr Field painting a happy picture.
You see Sid, you must have been paid he said so.:ugh:

Spin to Come
 

It will be good to see what spin the staff at DCDS (Pers) put on this one!

Just discovered a payment into my bank:) of an amount not recognised, it is more than what I am owed, wonder when they will claim it back.:ugh:

That bloke Trevor Failed seems to have the same level of ignoring-reality optimism as poor old 'Chemical Ali'.....

‘Everyone affected should now have received any missed payments.’

Of course they should have, Trev me old china, but have they?

What are my chances?
 

Having left for the second time in Feb after 5 years as FTRS, I was still owed LSSA for a months det in the sun (West not East). I was told that it would be paid at the end of Feb with the pay run (even though I left at the beginning of Feb). In the meantime got a bill for £5 sent to my home address with a dire warning if not paid within 14 days. Silly boy - paid it. End of Feb, guess what - no LSSA. Then told it would be paid at end of March - again no LSSA. Again enquired to be told it would be paid through JPA and that I should apply, although not entitled to a password! Recent enquiries suggested I should contact them again if not paid by the end of July.

What are my chances of getting the money?

Small claims court here I come!

Shadwell

At least a small claims court action would shame the system. :ugh: Our hard working HR staff are working their socks off trying to help folk but finding out how to do simple things like MUSA (now LSA) has been a mare. Don't ask about split pay to a foreign bank - easy before JPA.:sad:

We had the people who collect urine for a living at ISK today. The Adj had to manually select the random people for testing….. You guessed it JPA can’t do it., (but SAMA, you know that piece of junk we switched off A WEEK BEFORE we found JPA didn’t work, could):ugh:

RAF JPA Rollout
 

Hi there,
I've just joined the fun and wondered if anyone else knew that JPA was designed by the same "reputable" people as the Tax Credit System. All of a sudden the future looks........ we'll wait and see.

Well............ I haven't been paid correctly. My basic is still a level below what it should be and I've not received a penny of flying pay since March!!

May place of work address is still wrong despite many calls and SR's (email type thing). I got my wage slip today that had been sent to my old unit. I was surprised to see there's more info on the printed version than is available online?!?

Spoke to my HR rep today, (and to be fair, she's very helpful) she explained that the problem is going up and up the chain and like me, many other ex NCA who are now commissioned are affected.

I'm off on det soon and my LSA days are incorrect, so I know now that I'll get paid the wrong rate of LSA, if at all :{

I'm quite tired of chasing all this to be honest......... But I won't give up.... With that in mind, what do you reckon are good odds for it being sorted by the end of June? :rolleyes:

1000/1


ALWAYS assume NEVER check

Am currently being paid (thankfully) but off the wrong budget but who am I to complain..... unless under JPA, they claim it all back off me and tell me to claim..........etc etc. Paperless office?? Don't know about anyone else, but all the pay chits coming my way require central reg. staff or whoever to trawl through paper records and annotate in biro where I work! :eek:

Wingco Trevor
 

You have got to love that Trevor, just like some of ours he probably has a 1st Class Honours Degree in Bullsh$t from the Alastair Campbell College of Spin.

Today we brown jobs could'nt even contact the EC it was too "busy". Let's hope the MoD are too busy to pay AFPPAA this month's dosh.

Another little JPA wrinkle. Found this on the RAF Club website - I don't think it's widely advertised elsewhere. If you want to be able to claim actuals when staying at the Club from here on in, you have to book through CHBS. Otherwise you could be substantially out of pocket as the PAHA rate won't cover the cost of staying there.

On duty in London and need overnight accommodation? WEF from Apr 06 the introduction of JPA means that the AP3392 Vol 3 Leaflet 108 details are only applicable to Reserve Officers.

The new Tri-Service Regulations for Allowances state that Service personnel who are
members of Service or Civilian Clubs may choose to stay in these clubs, which can be booked through the CHBS or direct by the member. However, the Service person may claim actual expenditure only when the accommodation is booked through the CHBS. Otherwise, reimbursement is limited to the MOD PAHA NS limit.

The key thing is that CHBS must make the booking for the individual to claim the 'actual' costs as opposed to the Private Arranged Hotel Rate (which is capped). Current PAHA rate is £53 for B&B!

Will be interesting to see if they get the switch over to PAS correct next month.

Does anyone on the automatic home to duty think they're getting a good deal? Am interested as they have switched me over from the trusted manual system because I make 15 or more journeys a month, before going OOA and it being stopped for that.

Is it just me or has JPA and JSP752 sneaked a lot of changes (cutbacks) in. Then as mentioned in another thread there is the capped actual. I understand that they are considering bringing in In-Flt rations into the Daily Subsistence equation. Also trying to get rid of imprests and get you to apply for an advance on JPA before going on det, then you have to change the pounds into the local currency and claim the exchange charge through JPA.

Sure makes you appreciate the old system.

Why is it that everyone else is expected to have a full working knowledge of the admin regulations, when the admin section does not have to have a full working knowledge of JSP 318? I know this issue with JPA is not their fault, but when it finally gets to work .........

Probably because JSP 318 has been obsolete for quite a while now! Try JSP 550 (and 551, 552, 553, 556 etc).

Regards

Ginseng

CASWO's Brief tomorrow, any questions lads and lasses?

JPA has been a great success - official.
 

I see from Hansard that Mr Cameron asked the Secratary of State, at Defence Parliamentary Questions on Friday 2 Jun, a compound question alluding to the problematic introduction of JPA to the RAF.

Mr Watson, in replying for SofS, told Mr Cameron that there had been very few problems, and no official complaints. It is all, apparently, a remarkable success story due the 5 years of development and extensive testing and the very strong partnership between the MoD and EDS.

Apparently, so far, it has only cost the taxpayer £118 Million.

Good God.

Regards

Ginseng

whats the meaning of life? well you will probably get a better answer to that than anything else you ask him lol, last time we had a brief from the airship responsible for JPA, the conversation was "did you attend the JPA briefing?" "no sir" "well its really the most important thing you can do, your manager should have made sure you were there" what was the task that prevented me attending, ach it was only prepping a jet for QRA.

From the Telegraph online: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...06/06/utax.xml

A Commons Treasury Committee expressed concern about a £71 million fine imposed on the American computer giant EDS, which appeared to partially reward the firm for its failure to install a network to deal with the tax credit system.

EDS agreed to pay the Government £71 million after the original IT system it installed proved unsatisfactory. It later emerged that £26.5 million of that money depended upon EDS winning other government contracts.

I guess it depends on your rank. You will want to get your complaint in writing to the Station Commander, and whilst that may seem straightforward, putting it in the internal mail marked 'Personal for Station Commander' may put noses out of joint in your chain of command, so it may be worthwhile starting lower down but making sure that whoever you deal with knows that you want to complain to your Station/Unit Commander.
In putting together your complaint, you must be as dispassionate as possible. Gather the facts and explain what the impact of these are on you. State what steps you have taken so far and why these have been unsuccessful. Finally, explain what you want the Staish to do about it. You might try something along the lines of:
Sir
I wish to make a formal complaint about the impact that the introduction of the JPA System has had on me. The details of my grievances are as follows:

a. I have not been paid according to entitlement for 3 months. Up until 30 Jun 06, I am owed £375.80 basic pay, £175.00 in flying pay.
b. I have been charged for food and accommodation since 1 Apr 06, despite the fact that I have not lived in Service accommodation of any type since 2002, with the exception of the 3 weeks I spent aboard HMS Ocean in 2003. These deductions total £587.20 between 1 Apr 06 and 30 Jun 06.
c. I have been informed by the Human Resources staff that my Next of Kin Details are incorrect. However, I have been unable to access the system personally because there is no PC in my workplace.

2. In total, I calculate that I am owed £1138. Repeated attempts to contact the JPAC and JPA Helpdesk have been unsuccessful because they always promise to call me back but cannot be specific about time, and all their attempts to contact me have occurred when I have been airborne.
3. Whilst the amount I am owed may seem small, the impact this has had on me and my family have been significant. I have even had to cancel my son's planned dental treatment. I am now at the limit of a recently agreed overdraft facility, and concerned that my personal indebtedness may make me a target for Hostile Intelligence Services. The advice I have received from the Citizens Advice Bureau is that I contact my Member of Parliament. However, I do not wish to take this course of action until all other options have been exhausted.
4. I would be grateful if you could take up my case formally with the appropriate authorities so that I may concentrate fully on preparing for my forthcoming detachment to Iraq.
I Have the Honour to Be, Sir
Your Obedient Servant,
J O BLOGGS
Flight Lieutenant
I suspect that will get his/her attention.

Sorry if it wasn't a serious question, but hopefully this will benefit someone. Going straight to your MP or the RAF News will have little impact if you haven't tried this first. Of course you can always ask for an interview with the AOC during the next AFI (has anyone ever done that I wonder??)

STH

STH,

that letter would certainly attract immediate attention! I've already advised one of the troops on the Sqn I work on to pop into OC Admin office and state that JPA was causing him financial hardship after a lack of payments from good old JPA. Worked a treat as he was issued with a cheque before COP that day.

Ridiculous that you have to go to those levels however, the bottom line is that nobody else can help you, not even the Chief Clerk...

I am 93 days into my Det and waiting for my allowances to kick in. At 37 pounds a day (no pound sign - US computer) thats going to be a fat check! Thank you JPA, you're the best!:D

Complaints
 

In the JPA Cusomer Care Trifold for the EC there is an email address for official complaints, it is,

AFPAA Support

They are meant to respond to you within 10 working days .....I'm still waiting.

What scares me more are the highly complicated instructions you are getting from JPA about how to carry out of certain actions such as put in for an advance. If I find them difficult to understand the Fus Jock McSpatstrap 2 SCOTS hasn't a chance of being able to administer himself and I think the EC staff may have to attend anger management and stress reduction courses!:sad:

From the latest Eye...
:suspect:

news
 

RAF's new pay system nosedives
Scotland on Sunday, 1, p 10
04-06-2006
By Brian Brady Westminster Editor
HUNDREDS of Royal Air Force pilots and ground crew have found a new enemy in a catalogue of computer blunders that has left them without pay and valuable expenses.
The "teething problems" with the new computer payroll system, designed to improve payments to the RAF's 48,000 servicemen and women, has forced some to dip into savings or rely on families for support.
The Joint Administration System, introduced less than two months ago, has quickly descended into farce as baffled personnel received too much money, too little or none at all.
The multi-million pound network, provided by American computer giant EDS, continually crashed as frustrated pilots, air and ground crews tried to log on to track down payments.
Glasgow-based helpline workers were besieged with angry calls and hundreds of complaints have been posted on the pilots' own unofficial websites.
One frustrated airman was shocked to read on his pay-slip that he had paid almost GBP 1000 to charity last month.
"I viewed my pay statement yesterday and it was completely screwed up," he said. "Charity contributions had caused deductions of GBP 980. After phoning about it a smug civvy took great delight in telling me that it was being fixed and not to bother them until next week... before promptly hanging up."
The Ministry of Defence now faces demands to launch an investigation into what went wrong before the same system is rolled out to the Royal Navy and Army.
Ministers have said there are no plans to seek compensation in the latest public sector IT fiasco to embarrass the Government. EDS is the firm responsible for past Labour embarrassments including the controversial Pension Credit computer system and software for child support payments.
Work and Pensions Secretary John Hutton recently faced calls to pull the plug on the GBP 456m CSA computer system after a raft of blunders, while EDS was forced to compensate the Government when more than GBP 130m was accidentally overpaid to pensioners.
Shadow defence secretary Dr Liam Fox has urged the Government to ensure other personnel will not be left high and dry by the roll-out.
He said: "This sounds like yet another administration disaster zone that we have become used to under the current Government. Our forces have enough to deal with without the added burden of administrative incompetence."
EDS declined to comment last night, but officials at the MoD insisted that "early technical issues" had been anticipated because of the "scale and complexity" of the system.

Max Number of Expense Entries?
 

For those who might be on a long det, and anticipate putting a large expenses claim in, the maximum number of entries appears to be 201 (I am reliably informed). After that some weired shi'ite starts to happen...you have been warned.:eek:

Another interesting change
 

Another change slipped into JSP 752 says that those who hold a GPC should use it to pay for subsistence rather than claim an advance of subsistence rates. Now call me thick (I dare you!), but as a GPC holder I still have the MoD finance instruction that tells me that, as a Serviceman, I cannot use my GPC to pay for my own subsistence. Am I missing a vital amendment, or has Mr C**k-Up been busy again this month? How can a JSP direct me to do something that MoD Finance says I can't do?

Confused? You should be

Regards

Ginseng

Hansard
 

Ginseng,
Can you post a link that will take me to the Hansard link concerning Cameron's JPA question?
Thanks

JPA THE MISERY GOES ON
 

I am now $3000 out of pocket, and with no certainty as to when I am going to be paid. Yesterday I sent an official letter of Complaint to JPAC and to my OC Admin. I also took the step of E-Mailing my MP, to ask our beloved Prime Mister what the ---k is going on.