I was issued my GPC card solely that I could use it for my own Travel and Subsistence, so the rules must state that you can. I have never had any questions when handing the paperwork to the beancounters.

rjw500

In the absence of Ginseng I did a tiny amount of searching and came up with this:

Cameron's JPA Question?

Not sure if it was what you are looking for.

Regards

STH

rjw500 & STH
 

Yes, that was it. Sorry for misquoting the figures; it has only cost £116 Million so far - clearly a bargain!:rolleyes:

Regards

Ginseng

Yeah, but with a budget of £163m. Anyone want to take a bet that they won't blow thru that soon, anyway??

I just got my May pay statement. Although I think the cash that arrived in my bank was about right, I'm not sure; my statement suggests that I was paid £148, and my PAYE was........ £148.

Now I'm very confused.

There were over 6500 personnel incorrectly paid at the end of April; around 14%. This is true - a bloke in the pub told me.

JPA's statement of purpose 2006

"JPA's unique aspirational culture and entrepreneurial teams are creating a multi-faceted international recruitment business, respected by our customers and competitors alike."

Yep, plenty of Servicemen waiting to be recruited by someone else as our treatment by the top brass gets worse and worse! www.j-p-a.co.uk

QUOTE "During the early states of the JPA implementation, EDS told the RAF that JPA couldn't do the things they wanted it to, hadn't been tested in the configuration that we were using and generally wouldn't work. They were promptly ignored by the Officers in 'charge' of the project."

My pay has been wrong for both months. Luckily (?) the error is in my favour. Spoke to the Help Desk last Friday. The young lady did not have a clue. Still, look on the bright side, she was cheap to hire and I have a reference number.
My CV hits the streets very soon. The straw that broke...etc etc.

THE STRAW THAT........
 

Sorry to hear that JPA has caused you to go, by the time you get out it should all be sorted - or is it the loss of faith that is causing this decision?

Tried to resist posting on this thread but I'm afraid I've had it with JPA. I'm now £2400 out of pocket and no further forward than I was when I started out trying to get it cleared up.

Put an SR in two weeks ago and was assured someone from the elusive back office (pay office) would call me back to me within 48 hours. It would now appear they have 10 working days to get back to you with any JPA issues, great stuff knobs!

They also suggest you try the three numbers for the back office 3695, 3693 and 3641. If you can get a hold of anyone on any of them I'll give you my £2400!

Its about time the Sun got a hold of this story ands shamed the utter c:mad:ts for this debacle! I'm livid with the state of JPA.

£2400 out of pocket wouldn't be so bad if I was a high earner like a Sqn Ldr or Wing Co but I'm an SAC. No wonder people want to PVR! :ugh:

Ha, tried that. The guys who run the complaint desk at Gosport dont want to know!

If they cant get your pay right, what hope have you got of making a complaint!

Not JPA but the notorious Trevor F.

Seems that Army and Navy English units have gained invaluable PR supporting some football competition or other. TF wants to know about any RAF unit also gaining illicit press coverage, not, he hastened to add, so it could be stopped but so that centre was in the picture.

My email box was flooded with emails from the borders and north and not a peep from Spadeadam south. Seems they are overjoyed at Spade that Carlisle has gained promotion.

Pulse, finger :\

So what Cameron was told in Parliament is true - there have been no official complaints about JPA.

Because nobody will accept them.

C'mon papers - you've got to be able to use that!

As for TF, I think he nicely sums up why I'm desperate to go just as soon as I get to 22. Being positive is one thing, but not just because it'll do the career good - that's how we end up getting fcuked over all the time!

When they were talking about formal complaints they were referring to Redress of Complaint. None have been received by either the blunty casework staff or direct to AFPAA. So get writing them Redresses before they can be ruled out of time (remember the 90 day rule!!!)

A View of the Future
 

I can't say I've ever thought too well of the RAF administration system, not the boys and girls in SHQ, but the way the whole system functions. In 30 years there has always been something wrong, but mostly it has been rectifiable by some individual that you can find, if you have the time. I suppose I've quite enjoyed funding my fun myself and then claiming the cost back. Has anyone ever worked out how much this saved the MoD?

JPA breaks new ground in administration. The fact that no beta testing was done (evidently), indeed no-one with half a clue about service admin even cast an eye over what EDS was about to perpetrate, is indicative of the brave new world in which we live. Well I'm off, and glad to be so. No doubt it will all be sorted out eventually, over budget and well beyond any target date. Will EDS get to pay for their incompetence? No, because they covered their backsides by saying the product they developed was not fit for purpose.

I would encourage those of you who are frustrated to write to your MP, virtually nothing else will have any effect, as the brick wall is already built.

Testing etc.
 

Charlie 55 - sadly it is not as you suggest, there were a whole raft of Service SME's involved in the development and there was testing conducted by selected individuals from all 3 Services. Faults were patched on the fly during testing and the application was launched despite the shortcomings identified. Apparently every deadline in the project was allowed to slip except the launch date.

JPA FOR PERSONNEL OVERSEAS A JOKE
 

JPA roll out was really bad for those serving overseas. Cannot access any on line stuff, did not get paid at all. Sumitted first claim and was told it was not in accordance with the JSP that I cannot even get to see as we are not on line. All in all, SAMA was better thus far!

:}

Just been palmed off by JPAC again, for the umptenth time today so I've well and truly had it.

Just sent an e-mail to the Sun newsdesk. What should I say to my MP to get his attention?

Tell him you are a 16 year old rent boy. Normally works. Allegedly.

Seriously, put the facts down, explain how you are not receiving your correct pay, point out why the statements in the House are incorrect, and corroborate with facts where possible. Pointing him here won't work, as he will need to see verifiable proof. Have a dig around the JPA site and see what you can print off which backs you up. Most MPs will gladly take up the baton from the Armed Forces, it will depend on which party though. Copy the letter to No 10 and, if you are brave, the CE of JPA, explaining that you have exhausted all other routes.

Good luck

Writing letters
 

I assume that you have addressed your grievance to yr Subordinate Commanders (officers) - they should be able to make arrangements to reimburse you if JPA is really causing you hardship (and £2.4k sounds like hardship to me). If you haven't done this, do so first, (ignore this warning at yr peril) using a Gen App to request an interview, if you still have such a thing, then it's on record.

To get the attention of people outside the service, all that is required is a simple 3 paragraph letter.

Paragraph 1: state the background to the grievance/issue you want him to investigate. State who you are, an SAC at RAF xxx, and you are using a new admin system, introduced on Apr 1, and you think he might find it interesting to investigate how things are going.

Paragraph 2: Provide detail he can use for his enquiry. Relate your experience (briefly; lack of suitable functionality in the software, unobtainable enquiries desk, lack of access to terminals, lack of any offer to reimburse you, reaction from chain of command, refer to this blog with a http:// , he will be able to access this site from HofC)

Paragraph 3: This is the para for asking what you want him to do. In your case it's probably to press for immediate substantial improvements in the arrangement for paying allowances pending improved JPA functionality.

I say again, use your officers first, before you go this route. Best of luck.

Fantaman

You should be asking what your supervising officer and his/her supervisors are doing about it. I can only speak for the Navy, but if a lad/lass had come to me out of pocket by as much as a tenner I'd have been pushing it up the chain, hard. If my CO had found out I'd ignored it/done nothing, it'd be his office, my hat, no coffee.

Officers really should not be letting the airships get away with this, and by now I'd have been round all my team positively checking that their pay etc was in order.

Sorry I should have elaborated more on my earlier post. The e-mail I sent to the Sun was a brief outline of the farce that is JPA and didn't contain any of my personal details.

The money I am missing is my four and a half year bonus that I was entitled to around two months ago. After tax, it works out at about £2400 or thereabout. I have spoken to my seniors who have in turn spoken to the station admin unit and JPA. All they get is the same answer that I get, someone will call you back in 10 days!

Sorry if I confused or misled anyone.

Speaking is not enough anymore - you need to generate a paper trail. Get it all down, log the dates that everything gets sent/actioned, and keep pushing at the deadlines.

JPA isn't a problem for me. Until they make it a secure system, I refuse to use it and believe that life is better for it.

Can you request an interview with the station boss in the RAF? It certainly used to be possible in the RN. Gather all the written evidence, request the interview, take it to him, and stand well back!

With the RN you still have to follow the right channels first (request to see the Commanding Officer would be placed via DO first, which makes sense as they should be advising you on how to do it properly) - the only time you can rep up straight to the CO is on Divisions, when you are allowed to rep to the inspecting officer. Which could be highly amusing, and I only ever thought someone was going to do it once, but they bottled it.

I think you would probably get fairly short shrift from a CO, as it is not within his remit to rectify, only to inform those higher of your grievance. The correct form (RN wise) would be to raise a written representation, in our case through DO and straight to DD Pay in London who would take the whole issue for action.

If the indirect approach isn't working - ie. through SNCOs and JOs, the best way to get something done is to write to your commanding officer.

The golden rules are:

1. Explain your case factually, accurately and concisely.

2. Politely summarise what you would like done about it.

Provided you follow the rules above, you will not get into trouble and can refer to the letter at a later date - the chain of command also know this, which is why it is likely to result in some action!

Unfortunately, one of the first questions your MP will ask is - have you used the internal Formal Complaints process (ie Redress of Complaint) - utilising your MP will only be effective if you have exhausted that method first, as the MOD will reply - we have not received a Formal Complaint from the individual so we were unaware. Hence the earlier response from the House when Cameron asked the questions about JPA.

For RAF Bods look up QR 1000 and AP 3392 Vol4 lflt 1806 on Redress of Complaint. The longer you keep whining on this forum and relying on the JPAC to sort out your problems, the longer it will be for the system to sort its self out. Remember Redress of Complaint is your statutory right as a Serviceman/woman under the relevant Service Discipline Act.

Only 120 days until the Royal Navy starts JPA....should we be scared or is it fixed?

Vec

Of course it's all working now - Wg Cdr Field says so!

Undoubtedly the RN will get it on time - for one and only one reason - to avoid government embarrassment.

If I'm honest I can now easily log-on, which is something nobody could do for the first month. I've also applied for leave (or whatever it's called now) with no apparent problems. As for anything else, it simply doesn't have the capability to do hundreds of things we used to and there's no evident central plan in place as a contingency. JPA may be working, just not for anyone in the RAF!

That depends what you consider 'fixed' to mean. I am on a UK main base, and normally have no trouble accessing the service, submitting claims etc. However, I can well believe that anyone away from the backbone RLI is struggling. There will undoubtedly be units even within the UK where access is slow to impossible - we have never taken the requirement for bandwidth seriously, or employed contractors who have the necessary skills to develop software strategies that work with narrow pipes.. As for those who are out of area (at permanent or temporary deployed sites), I can well believe that the system is impossible to use.

I was at MoD the other day for a meeting, and the mil guys I was dealing with were still using paper - perhaps it's because they are 'Joint', but I don't think so.

The software itself is not fully developed or tested - today I put in a claim for UK Daily Subsistence that was initially rejected because I had put UK instead of United Kingdom in the box which wanted to know where I had been when I had expended the cash... why was it even asking?? It also frequently refers users to the rules applicable to a particular claim, but there are no links and it often says things like See JSP XXX Leaflet YYY Para ZZZ, but no-one has gone back and filled-in the missing numbers!

I know I am in danger of repeating myself, but as bad as all this is, the real bolleaux about the introduction of JPA is the actual changes to entitlements that have been sneaked-in with it. We have been right-royally shafted!!!!! What gripped me today was a reminder message to users at my unit that the rates are maxima, and that just because you can claim up to £21(?) for daily subsistence doesn't mean that you are entitled to it. They have apparently been getting claims for the full amount, which the adminers reckon is indicative of people 'over-claiming'. Of course, it is unlikely that individuals will have receipts for the full amount unless they buy one or 2 large meals, but my understanding is that any purchase costing less than £5 does not need a receipt. Assuming the £21 is correct, you could legitimately buy 16 McD burgers (separately), a couple of drinks, a newspaper and make a brief call home, adding up to the full amount, which is entirely legitimate, but requires no actual receipts. When I questioned how any investigation into a supposed fraud of the systen might possibly be made to stick, I was met with a shrug. It just seems to me that this stupid system is trying to make people feel guilty about claiming things to which they are entitled.

It is disgusting.

You will hate it.

STH

I've really had enough of it. The claims element is now working OK on the surface of it, but I agree with STH that the raft of small-minded penny-pinching measures brought in with JPA beggar belief. I was away for a 5-day det to the US; the subesquent claim which took nearly two hours to submit even after 'er indoors had sorted through all my receipts and made sense of the whole thing (she's an accounts clerk, bless her). What no one is counting is the cost in man-hours lost to the service, plus the loss of goodwill due to the fact that our lords and masters believe this system is better (read: cheaper) than just issuing a daily rate and letting us get on with it.

I have now been embarrassed on several occasions when dining with US and civilian colleagues of equal or greater rank due to the need to try to stay within budget.

It's taken three months to get a pay packet that makes any sense (I was posted in March) and have been forced to write to OC Admin (sorry, BSW) regarding the lack of response to my queries to JPAC and the 'back office'.

The whole thing should be rolled up and thrown in the skip, with the perpetrators publicily vilified throughout the kingdom....
:mad: :ugh: :mad:

Sorry. Rant got way from a me a bit......

SBG

SBG so when are you going to write your Redress of Complaint - the system is not concerned with complaints to the JPAC, HR Staff (old money PSF) or the OC Admin Wg. They are only concerned with Redresses - if you have a grievance with JPA submit the Redress!!!

To date there have still been no Redresses submitted by RAF personnel.

I have followed this thread closely, and have asked the Government what is happening. I received a reply yesterday:

Which would indicate, would it not, that despite the huge number of individual cases described on PPRuNE and the 14 individual pieces of correspondence, Lord Drayson will continue to hide behind such utter fluff unless formal grievances are laid.

So what's stopping you all? Why aren't such grievances being filed every day, if that's what it takes?

'Comical Ali' Field will continue to spin the party line and you won't get any swift action until you do.

Please someone tell me that the arrrrse-holes responsibe for JPA within the RAF are looking for future employment outside H M's Armed Forces! The whole thing is an unmitigated disaster. It is utterly UN-user friendly, complicated, unwealdy and NO improvement over what came before.

It is !!!!E! Oh! that explains the Aaarse-hole issue I suppose:mad:

Too many whiners and not enough who have the moral courage to stand up when they have been wronged - they would rather stand behind anonymity on this forum than put there head above the parapet and be counted.

DS & Sir Topham
 

Sir Topham you are right ..... and wrong! DA @ £21 is to cover lunch and/or dinner and/or breakfast if not covered by NS. If you are out for 5 hours and choose to have a slap up two course bar meal and non-alcoholic drink costing £25 for your lunch you are quite within your rights to claim £21. Any blunty that suggests otherwise should be put back in his box firmly.

You are wrong to suggest that one could claim 25 x McDs @ 99p because that would not reasonable as a lunch or dinner. Those who seek to circumvent the regs with too many sub £5, no receipt, claims will have the no receipt clause revoked and will have to produce everyone whatever the amount.
:ok:

DS
 

I have had cause to investigate the entitlements and can confirm that the allowance does indeed appear to be £21 for on or two meals and drinks, without splitting it out - although the 'abated' rate is something like £4.20 and this is supposed to cover your 'minor' meal of the day - ie lunch when the MOD provides dinner.
What is more interesting is that it now seems acceptable to claim for an alcoholic drink (one 'reasonable' one only!) - I have actually had SP Pol confirmation of this!

I believe JSP 752 AL3 specifies alchohol is allowed with a meal.