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-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

733driver 25th Jan 2023 09:46


Originally Posted by Geriaviator (Post 11373413)

I thought Matt excelled himself in the Daily Telegraph today -- topical as ever!

14 Leopard 2 A6 to be delivered by Germany

https://www.tagesschau.de/eilmeldung...dung-7019.html

Also other countries may send their Leopards to Ukraine.

Was already leaked yesterday. Just confirmed by government spokesperson.

Better late than never.

rattman 25th Jan 2023 11:18


Originally Posted by 733driver (Post 11373422)
14 Leopard 2 A6 to be delivered by Germany

So final number/goal will be 88, 2 battalions. Bunderswehr has 44 tanks per battalion

German government announces delivery of Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine
Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced in the Cabinet on Wednesday that Germany will further increase military support for Ukraine. He said the German government had decided to provide the Ukrainian armed forces with "Leopard 2" main battle tanks. This is the result of intensive consultations that took place with Germany's closest European and international partners.
"This decision follows our well-known line of supporting Ukraine to the best of our ability. We are acting in a closely coordinated and concerted manner internationally," the chancellor said in Berlin.
The goal is to quickly assemble two tank battalions with Leopard 2 tanks for Ukraine. As a first step, Germany will provide a company of 14 Leopard-2 A6 tanks from Bundeswehr stocks. Other European partners will in turn hand over Leopard-2 tanks. Training of the Ukrainian crews is to begin rapidly in Germany. In addition to training, the package will also include logistics, ammunition and maintenance of the systems.
Germany will issue the relevant transfer licenses to the partner countries that want to quickly deliver Leopard-2 tanks from their stocks to Ukraine, he said.

ORAC 25th Jan 2023 11:44

🙄🙄🙄

​​​​​​​ The Wagner Group's head, Yevgeny Prigozhin, has demanded that criticism of his fighters should be banned in Russia. In a letter published on Telegram, he complains that media and bloggers are unfairly portraying his recruited convicts as "villains and criminals".

NutLoose 25th Jan 2023 11:58


Russia has accused America of trying to inflict "strategic defeat" on Moscow as a decision on sending M1 Abrams battle tanks is expected; Germany has today approved sending its tanks.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-w...antic-12541713

Surely that is the whole idea and goal in Ukraine, after all at the end of the day Ukraine IS a Sovereign Country and never invited Russia to invade them, The west used to cooperate and exercise together with Ukraine long before they were invaded, what did he expect, the west to stand by and watch it all happen?
Ohh, and there is the little fact that WE DID sign up to protect them for giving up their nuclear weapons.

NutLoose 25th Jan 2023 12:06

Aviation Content:


NutLoose 25th Jan 2023 12:17

Ohhhh..


Day 336. Germany approves sending Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine. 12 countries to supply Ukraine with about 100 Leopard 2 tanks. The Biden administration plans to send M1 Abrams tanks to Ukraine, US officials said.
I wonder whaat mishmash of Mk's they will get, A lot of COuntries have A4 or A5's and Germany is sending A6's

ORAC 25th Jan 2023 12:32


I wonder whaat mishmash of Mk's they will get, A lot of COuntries have A4 or A5's and Germany is sending A6's
An overview of tank supplies to Ukraine right now:

Confirmed:
🇬🇧14 Challenger 2
🇵🇱14 Leopard 2A4
🇩🇪14 Leopard 2A6

Awaiting full confirmation:
🇵🇹4 Leopard 2A6
🇪🇸 20-53 Leopard 2A4
🇺🇸30 Abrams M1
🇳🇴8 Leopard 2A4
🇫🇮 14 Leopard 2A4/6

Discussing:
🇳🇱18 Leopard 2A6
🇩🇰6 Leopard 2A5/7
Also an unknown number of 🇫🇷 Leclerc tanks

RetiredBA/BY 25th Jan 2023 12:36

So, Germany has agreed, at last
So, lets see the UK send at least another 50 Challengers, 14 is just not enough.
After all, moderation in war is imbecility.

langleybaston 25th Jan 2023 12:36


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11373384)
Yes it does, based on the information available. They have tried to make it more survivable by placing the crew in the front of the hull in a separate crew compartment. Nice, but in case of any sort of malfunction someone has to jump out, climb to the turret and go in... Not something you'd probably like to do in the battlefield.

The T14, based on information available, is essentially another T72 with its autoloader setup. Except more unreliable. And most probably the rest of the technology really isn't anything ground breaking by any means either.

Given a tossed turret, do the Russians care a toss about crew survival? Uncharacteristic.

Tartiflette Fan 25th Jan 2023 12:42


Originally Posted by langleybaston (Post 11373520)
Given a tossed turret, do the Russians care a toss about crew survival? Uncharacteristic.

As people, no. As a crew to go into another tank, yes.

uxb99 25th Jan 2023 12:44

Will the West impose any sort of doctrine on Ukraine in the use of their tanks?

Less Hair 25th Jan 2023 12:47

Germany now includes Leopard 2 spare parts in what they will hand over.

ACW342 25th Jan 2023 12:53

Aviation Content:
Somebody getting stroppy about our RC135 overflying international waters in the Black sea? Psycho 61 & 62 revealing themselves should be a comfort for the crew.

A342
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....bdf051fe5.jpeg
25/01/23

Tartiflette Fan 25th Jan 2023 14:10


Originally Posted by uxb99 (Post 11373525)
Will the West impose any sort of doctrine on Ukraine in the use of their tanks?

Like what ? ot bombarding The Kremlin ?

Confusious 25th Jan 2023 14:13


Originally Posted by uxb99 (Post 11373525)
Will the West impose any sort of doctrine on Ukraine in the use of their tanks?

Doing so would send a weak message to Putin, so very doubtful.

t43562 25th Jan 2023 14:42


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11373516)
An overview of tank supplies to Ukraine right now:

Confirmed:
🇬🇧14 Challenger 2
🇵🇱14 Leopard 2A4
🇩🇪14 Leopard 2A6

Awaiting full confirmation:
🇵🇹4 Leopard 2A6
🇪🇸 20-53 Leopard 2A4
🇺🇸30 Abrams M1
🇳🇴8 Leopard 2A4
🇫🇮 14 Leopard 2A4/6

Discussing:
🇳🇱18 Leopard 2A6
🇩🇰6 Leopard 2A5/7
Also an unknown number of 🇫🇷 Leclerc tanks

It does seem a bit like NATO could do with a standard tank built in numbers in several countries. Something just about affordable to everyone. Even if the US or other nations wanted to have their own special thing ontop of that....

Wokkafans 25th Jan 2023 14:51

Spain reportedly will be sending 52 Leopards, at the top end of prior estimates.

Meanwhile:

​​​​​​​


_Agrajag_ 25th Jan 2023 14:54


Originally Posted by t43562 (Post 11373582)
It does seem a bit like NATO could do with a standard tank built in numbers in several countries. Something just about affordable to everyone. Even if the US or other nations wanted to have their own special thing ontop of that....


People within NATO have been trying to do this for decades. There are dozens of "interoperability groups" within NATO, all with the aim of standardising kit so any NATO country can use kit from any other NATO country. Not been a great success. Works OK for some stuff, like small arms ammunition and some fuel specs. Not worked well for heavier stuff. Makes one hell of a lot of sense to have many countries making the same vehicles, armour, artillery etc. Gets rid of situation we've just seen with Germany and the Leopards. Also stops countries like the UK developing tanks and their ammunition that are unicorns that no other country can quickly use or support.

GlobalNav 25th Jan 2023 14:58


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11373495)
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-w...antic-12541713

Surely that is the whole idea and goal in Ukraine, after all at the end of the day Ukraine IS a Sovereign Country and never invited Russia to invade them, The west used to cooperate and exercise together with Ukraine long before they were invaded, what did he expect, the west to stand by and watch it all happen?
Ohh, and there is the little fact that WE DID sign up to protect them for giving up their nuclear weapons.

Agreed, but I wish we had been quicker about it. So many lives lost, homes destroyed, misery.

212man 25th Jan 2023 15:50


Originally Posted by Less Hair (Post 11373388)
Only the ammo storage is relevant for turret tossing.

Well, clearly, but they appear to have made such an event more survivable


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