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-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

The Helpful Stacker 5th Aug 2022 10:47


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11273317)

With mates like that eh?

peter we 5th Aug 2022 11:46


Originally Posted by Beamr (Post 11273317)
Drones are really changing the way war is fought. How to protect troops from drones will be in the "very urgent acquisition list" of probably every army on earth. All one needs is a drone with some payload capability and a release servo, pick a grenade of your choice and off you go.

https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/...74737547149313

and this

https://twitter.com/LXSummer1/status...26674928779265

The answer is hunter-killer drones. We are at 1914 in the drone war.



NutLoose 5th Aug 2022 11:56

Perhaps wrap these around the grenades they drop from drones or simply drop them by the boxload over troops or trenches as per WW1.

https://www.sarcoinc.com/flechettes-...military-1-lb/

dead_pan 5th Aug 2022 12:04


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11273297)
The Canadian's are coming, Canada sending 225 personnel to the UK to help train the Ukrainians.

Still can't understand why we/they don't set up training camps in the likes of Poland and Romania, rather than shipping these troops across the breadth of Europe. They could also double up for R+R.

NutLoose 5th Aug 2022 12:23

It's probably easier to bring the troops to the set up training infrastructure than to take the infrastructure to the troops, remember some of the things involved are the likes of the urban / combat village set up that the UK has for training troops in house to house combat and the military driving ranges to teach them on the vehicles provided.. you can possibly deliver them to the UK on the probably empty return aid and munitions delivery flights.
It also brings them together out of area and lets them knit as a team as well as being a huge moral boost for some of them that will never have been abroad as such?


North Macedonia is providing 4 SU25's they have in store, well done for such a small Country.

https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-pol...u-25-jets.html

FlightDetent 5th Aug 2022 14:43


Originally Posted by dead_pan (Post 11273398)
Still can't understand why we/they don't set up training camps in the likes of Poland and Romania, rather than shipping these troops across the breadth of Europe. They could also double up for R+R.

Had been asking myself the same. There is a lot of commitment for the UKR cause in the ex-soviet pact countries.

Possible answers
- the 'western' English speaking media don't inform us about the activities in Poland, Romania, Czechoslovakia et. al.
- given its economical power and size of the millitary, the UK might be the best choice on the continent (ehm) for purely technical reasons. (again, not to mention we don't know what support the French and others provide)
​​​

NutLoose 5th Aug 2022 15:23

Also the UK offered to utilise one should imagine their spare capacity, the Netherlands and Canada have offered and are joining in too provide UK based training..

And let's face it, after Ti****th, anywhere would be better, even the frontline.

dead_pan 5th Aug 2022 16:25


Originally Posted by FlightDetent (Post 11273494)
Had been asking myself the same. There is a lot of commitment for the UKR cause in the ex-soviet pact countries.

Possible answers
- the 'western' English speaking media don't inform us about the activities in Poland, Romania, Czechoslovakia et. al.
​​​

...or the extent of Russian undercover activities. Alongside those in Russia's pay there may be locals who are sympathetic to their cause, such as it is.

dead_pan 5th Aug 2022 16:30


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11273517)
And let's face it, after Ti****th, anywhere would be better, even the frontline.

A Friday night out in Aldershot would be an authentic training experience IMO, what with all those drunk squaddies

NutLoose 5th Aug 2022 16:36


Originally Posted by dead_pan (Post 11273549)
A Friday night out in Aldershot would be an authentic training experience IMO, what with all those drunk squaddies

Standing outside one of the many Aldershot pubs with a "No Squaddies" sign in the window, we ventured in.. late seventies the haircuts were a dead give away, "Sorry Lads, No Squaddies " comes from behind the bar.. "But we are RAF" we replied.. "Oh come on in, what are you drinking?" was the reply.. :)

FUMR 5th Aug 2022 16:41

Naive but honest question from a non mil person: With the accuracy of weapons now at the UA's disposal, can't RF artillery and/or missile launchers (using the nuclear plant as cover) be targeted without any significant danger to the plant?

Lonewolf_50 5th Aug 2022 16:47


Originally Posted by FUMR (Post 11273553)
Naive but honest question from a non mil person: With the accuracy of weapons now at the UA's disposal, can't RF artillery and/or missile launchers (using the nuclear plant as cover) be targeted without any significant danger to the plant?

All it takes is one round to fall short and it ends in tears.

langleybaston 5th Aug 2022 16:49


Originally Posted by FUMR (Post 11273553)
Naive but honest question from a non mil person: With the accuracy of weapons now at the UA's disposal, can't RF artillery and/or missile launchers (using the nuclear plant as cover) be targeted without any significant danger to the plant?

Another non-military:
yes, probably but the Ukrs have been at great pains to occupy the moral high ground [not difficult compared with the opposition].
Such a stance, as brave patriotic victim good guys, will be increasingly important as the West takes the strain of autumn and winter hardships.
Very important that any radiation leaks/ spills/ accidents harming Russians should be seen as self-inflicted.

Tartiflette Fan 5th Aug 2022 17:39


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 11273557)
All it takes is one round to fall short and it ends in tears.

The containment envelope ( of Western plants ) is supposed to withstand a very large passenger plane striking it, so even a 155 mm shell shouldn't be too much of qa challenge.

NutLoose 5th Aug 2022 18:16

This could be a worry if true.


jolihokistix 5th Aug 2022 20:51

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/w...r-treason-TASS

Quote: “A leading Russian hypersonics expert has been arrested on suspicion of treason, the state-controlled TASS news agency reported on Friday.”

ORAC 5th Aug 2022 22:26


he containment envelope ( of Western plants ) is supposed to withstand a very large passenger plane striking it, so even a 155 mm shell shouldn't be too much of qa challenge.
I would suspect you have no idea what you are talking abou?

An aircraft is designed for light weight to slice through the air, a shell is designed to penetrate concrete with explosive plasma jets to severe steel let alone a few inches of concrete.

Bottom line - the containment vessel is easily penetrated - and the external cooling systems and ponds are obviou and unprotected.

NutLoose 5th Aug 2022 22:34

Didn’t the US take out the Iraqi none nuclear power plant by stuffing one missile into the wall to punch a hole into it, then sticking another one through the said hole to take out the generation plant

Containment requirements

https://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/public...ub1189_web.pdf

..

cheekychimp 5th Aug 2022 23:43


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11273666)
I would suspect you have no idea what you are talking abou?

An aircraft is designed for light weight to slice 5b rough the air, a shell is designed to penetrate concrete with explosive plasma jets to severe steel let alone a few inches of concrete.

Bottom line - the compntainment vessel is easily penetrated - and the external cooling systems and ponds are obviou and unprotected.

Say all again, not in BATCO

etudiant 5th Aug 2022 23:58


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11273666)
I would suspect you have no idea what you are talking abou?

An aircraft is designed for light weight to slice 5b rough the air, a shell is designed to penetrate concrete with explosive plasma jets to severe steel let alone a few inches of concrete.

Bottom line - the compntainment vessel is easily penetrated - and the external cooling systems and ponds are obviou and unprotected.

Against that is the size of the facility.
Nuclear plants are pretty big, they don't explode if one punches a hole into the concrete containment shell.
To do serious damage, one would ideally hit the reactor, a pressure vessel entombed at the base of the containment.
Seen that the resultant mess would be yours to clean up, if you win, neither combatant has any interest in doing so.


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