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-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

Martin the Martian 15th Apr 2022 13:03


Originally Posted by ShyTorque (Post 11215792)
I noticed that the logo on the BBC's "App" icon on my iphone changed to a red square a few days ago.

Just showing their true allegiances?

And the sport app is now a yellow square.

If you think BBC News has an allegiance to Russia you obviously haven't been watching their reports from the likes of Bucha or their interview with Zelensky.

SASless 15th Apr 2022 13:03

The Turkish Drones have a fairly short operational radius and the movement mentioned would probably counter that UAV.

On the other hand....larger more capable UAV's are in the mix....and can easily cover the entire Black Sea.

Who is operating those more sophisticated UAV's remains classified by Ukraine and other Nations.

Then we should also remember Space Based systems that could be employed or even Submarines.

There is no knowing by the public as to where the targeting data came from.

However, the Ukraine Military gets to pass the message "Scratch one Cruiser!".

fitliker 15th Apr 2022 13:08


Originally Posted by ShyTorque (Post 11215792)
I noticed that the logo on the BBC's "App" icon on my iphone changed to a red square a few days ago.

Just showing their true allegiances?

Hiding in plain sight . Those annoying trots in the students union now have careers in journalism.

uxb99 15th Apr 2022 13:32

I wonder if Ukraine, led by NATO intel and training, is deliberately dictating what Putin does causing him to fail?
In the same way a few bombs dropped on Berlin caused Hitler to switch from bombing RAF Airfields to civilian targets, I wonder of sinking the Moskva could cause a similar reaction?
Lead him down the garden path using his outrage as a carrot?

Lonewolf_50 15th Apr 2022 14:02


Originally Posted by SASless (Post 11215822)
or even Submarines.

Rather unlikely, given what I outlined to TF a month ago. (Imagegear followed my post with some info on submarine ops in the Black Sea).
If you want to bet a line in Vegas on sources of info that are not organic to Ukraine, something on or above the surface, or in space, is the line to place your money upon.

GlobalNav 15th Apr 2022 15:41


Originally Posted by Recc (Post 11215730)
That is one interpretation, but I think that it is more likely that a prolonged and costly war against Ukraine would be seen as a deeply embarrassing failure for Russia's armed forced. If it is portrayed as a war against NATO, then the lack of progress and heavy losses are much more easily explained and less humiliating. I doubt that Russia actually wants direct conflict with NATO.

Well, if any demonstration of the capabilities of Russian armed forces was needed, we already have it, so let’s end this thing.

Putin may not want direct conflict with NATO but seems determined to exploit NATO’s desire to avoid conflict for the sake of achieving his own objectives. And we let him do it. For NATO, it’s a high wire balancing act. I am encouraged by some glimmers of significant support for Ukrainian survival.

MPN11 15th Apr 2022 17:16

But ... does Putin have an escape clause that would sustain his hold on power, and in the eyes of his Public? Otherwise this drags on to the detriment of the Ukrainian people and their territory.

Otherwise, looking at the red bits of the maps, he's largely attained Plan B ... linking the illegally claimed Donbass and Crimea with the southern Ukrainian ports. So he wins, and we in the West can do sod all about it.

Beamr 15th Apr 2022 17:29

Ukraine isn't short of men, they are short of all sorts of equipment. There were 280k military prior to the invasion plus they had a million trained in reserves. Then they have yet another 5-10 million people of the age 18-60 that will be able to fight at least on some level, querrilla if nothing else.
It seems that the Ukrainian mentality is very ready to fight the oppressor, including civilians.
We in the west need to keep a constant flow of supply on every imaginable kit and this will be even more costly to the Russians. The Ukrainians show the strength, we need to provide the tools to throw the Russians to their box.

peter we 15th Apr 2022 17:40


Originally Posted by Clop_Clop (Post 11215727)
|t's off the charts in that show, what ever it is... there was a woman earlier making a strong case for stronger repression inside Russia and the guy in black referring to Ukranians and the west as satan and nazis... Guess the show is where they make entertainment of it and spreading the narrative...

Thats pretty much the Russian government line, they are in a Holy War against the satanic West.
Their definition of NAZI is anyone who is the enemy of Russia, justifying genocide because it is a fight against evil.
This is not new, Russians have been fed this for many years.

Prunus Dessicata 15th Apr 2022 17:46


Originally Posted by uxb99 (Post 11215841)
I wonder if Ukraine, led by NATO intel and training, is deliberately dictating what Putin does causing him to fail?
In the same way a few bombs dropped on Berlin caused Hitler to switch from bombing RAF Airfields to civilian targets, I wonder of sinking the Moskva could cause a similar reaction?

Lead him down the garden path using his outrage as a carrot?


Isn't that how we got him here in the first place?

He's munching the carrot and flapping his long ears.

Now, what next?

Video Mixdown 15th Apr 2022 17:52


Originally Posted by peter we (Post 11215936)
Thats pretty much the Russian government line, they are in a Holy War against the satanic West.
Their definition of NAZI is anyone who is the enemy of Russia, justifying genocide because it is a fight against evil.
This is not new, Russians have been fed this for many years.

It's baffling. They've been able to visit the West, take holidays, do business here for decades. How do they sustain this wall that separates what they can see with their own eyes from what they're told to believe?

pasta 15th Apr 2022 17:57


Originally Posted by Video Mixdown (Post 11215940)
It's baffling. They've been able to visit the West, take holidays, do business here for decades. How do they sustain this wall that separates what they can see with their own eyes from what they're told to believe?

That's easy. The people seeing it with their own eyes aren't the people being told what to believe.

macmp419 15th Apr 2022 18:25


Originally Posted by Video Mixdown (Post 11215940)
It's baffling. They've been able to visit the West, take holidays, do business here for decades. How do they sustain this wall that separates what they can see with their own eyes from what they're told to believe?

Not really baffling at all. Putins People by Catherine Belton is a worthy read and will give you a good insight on how he has both exploited and played the West, whilst practically declaring himself Tsar since he duped his own people to make his way into power.

ORAC 15th Apr 2022 19:36

Latest word is Russia is going to declare war with Ukraine as a result of the attack on Maskva - upgrading from their “action”.

Main reason is they can recall all reservists and implement conscription to fill their severely depleted ranks.

However, that will take months, and it remains to be seen if their “reserves” of equipment can be regenerated and their factories replenish munitions.

Trumpet trousers 15th Apr 2022 19:36


Otherwise, looking at the red bits of the maps, he's largely attained Plan B ... linking the illegally claimed Donbass and Crimea with the southern Ukrainian ports. So he wins, and we in the West can do sod all about it.
Unless I'm viewing a different map, Poo-tin's forces don't hold Odesa, and if Ukrainian performance thus far is anything to go by, neither will they anytime in the immediate future. The days and weeks leading up to May 9 are going to be very interesting, as I think that the Ukrainians may have one or more further aces up their sleeves...

Sue Vêtements 15th Apr 2022 21:49


Originally Posted by Video Mixdown (Post 11215940)
It's baffling. They've been able to visit the West, take holidays, do business here for decades. How do they sustain this wall that separates what they can see with their own eyes from what they're told to believe?

There are people in "The West" who believe (amongst other things) that the Earth is flat

sycamore 15th Apr 2022 21:57

I think the Uka`ns should think a bit `outside the box`..use stratospheric balloons with payloads of newspapers(suitably water resistant ,and enhanced with `Window/chaff) from various launch sites so they reach maximum altitude safely. before overflying Russia.They can then be timed or electronically deploy the payload to drift down over populated areas...Items in the news should include POWs/known dead Russian troop/units,etc. May 9 over Moscow for a `ticker-tape` event...

GlobalNav 15th Apr 2022 21:58


Originally Posted by Sue Vêtements (Post 11216018)
There are people in "The West" who believe (amongst other things) that the Earth is flat

I hate to say it, but you’re right. Amazing how many people will swallow whatever their favorite party has to say even when it is clearly and repeatedly false. It’s no longer my favorite party.

baron_rouge 15th Apr 2022 22:34


baron_rouge 15th Apr 2022 22:35



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