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AUKUS

Old 20th Sep 2022, 18:18
  #1061 (permalink)  
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RR Derby PWR3 production is, on paper, ahead of Dreadnaught and SSNR construction and potentially able to meet any RAN requirement.

The potential problem lies elsewhere. If the government decides to give RR Derby a contract for LEU SMRs to meet U.K. domestic needs, and then multiple other foreign orders, where do you honk the RR engineering focus will be?

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/new...uclear-5427413
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Old 21st Sep 2022, 02:45
  #1062 (permalink)  

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Here we go again…

https://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...-of-aukus.html
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Old 21st Sep 2022, 05:18
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Are you stirring the pot again, Buster.

The ADF hasn’t had a good experience with French equipment, eg MH90, Tiger & they even prevented the RAAF from using the Mirage in Vietnam.

Political posturing aside, there’s no chance that RAN will acquire French submarines.
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Old 21st Sep 2022, 05:42
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Macron did offer 4 diesel subs, we assume scorpenes but nothing official, just like the spanish offered another 3 hobart class AWD. Marles (defence minister) has also had a meeting with Macron in the last 24 hours and hes said they will be more communicative on the MRH-90's if the scrapping is confirmed
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Old 21st Sep 2022, 07:44
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Originally Posted by Going Boeing View Post
Are you stirring the pot again, Buster.
Ha! No, I just hadnít seen this mentioned before in the thread. 😂

Weíve swung all our eggs into the US basket, rightly or wrongly, but personally, Iíd be exploring the possibility of getting some US or UK patrols to cover the Collins gap. (Donít flame me, just a random thought as opposed to the 4 FRAUS subs option)
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Old 21st Sep 2022, 07:58
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The informed , and for once not inflammable, discussion over teh last week has pointed out the fact that any large scale construction in Adleide is likely to be a long way away.

That doesn't stop the RAN training tho' - in 4 or 5 years they could have a decent cadre of trained crews that could man a rental boat (I suggest the "Hertz" class) or co-crew a US or RN boat operating near Australia.
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Old 21st Sep 2022, 08:26
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Yes, and I agree it would have to be either/or, not both. Setting aside the question of whether the RAN could find sufficient submariners for a sensible cadre in both a USN boat and a RN boat, the difference in approach of the USN and the RN to producing SQEP as MEO, XO and CO was mentioned somewhere above. I think they are possibly mutually exclusive.

Are there any RN submarine exchange posts with a US SSN billet?

N
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Old 21st Sep 2022, 11:15
  #1068 (permalink)  
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Are there any RN submarine exchange posts with a US SSN billet?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/r...-us-navy-roles

Submariner Lieutenant Matt Main and Chief Petty Officer Stacy Gager have been working with US colleagues as part of the US-UK personnel exchange programme and long-lead specialist skills programme.

Lieutenant Main has already earned his Royal Navy ‘dolphins’ – the unique badge which signifies a qualified submariner – but on 10 June he was presented with the US equivalent after a gruelling 27-month training and qualification process.

Fully integrated into the crew of the USS New Mexico, Lieutenant Main is currently the damage control assistant and will become the assistant engineer in due course before returning to the Royal Navy….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_New_Mexico_(SSN-779)

USS New Mexico (SSN-779), a nuclear powered Virginia class attack submarine…. is the second of the Virginia Block II submarines to enter service….
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Old 21st Sep 2022, 14:11
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ORAC.
Thanks for that. The USN training and qualification period needed by a RN qualified submariner kind of makes my point.

N

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Old 21st Sep 2022, 15:16
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RN navigating / warfare officers do swap with their opposite numbers much more easily: and vice versa. It's the technical specialists than need to be brought up to speed with the other teams kit and operating systems.
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Old 21st Sep 2022, 23:15
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Originally Posted by Buster Hyman View Post
Weíve swung all our eggs into the US basket, rightly or wrongly, but personally, Iíd be exploring the possibility of getting some US or UK patrols to cover the Collins gap. (Donít flame me, just a random thought as opposed to the 4 FRAUS subs option)
I totally agree. It would make sense (while the new SSNís are being built) to have a submarine, from the country that is selected, based at Fleet Base West for operations with some RAN personnel integrated in the crew.
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Old 22nd Sep 2022, 01:04
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100% There should be some boats from either guam or hawaii given extended deployments to fleet base west where australia submariners can do training and operational cruises. Might the same for RN, I believe one of astute class is supposed to be forward deployed in oman maybe forward deploy it to australia instead
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Old 22nd Sep 2022, 03:55
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Okay, someone let Marles know that the PPRuNe Ozmates have got this. He can stand down now!
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Old 22nd Sep 2022, 09:21
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"I believe one of astute class is supposed to be forward deployed in oman maybe forward deploy it to australia instead"

this where it starts to get tough - UK has very few real pressing interests in the Australia area compared to the Gulf
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Old 24th Sep 2022, 08:12
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Interesting article today:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/i...37aaef961fb900
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Old 24th Sep 2022, 11:14
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The US badly needs to expand the infrastructure supporting their Navy - especially the submarine force. As the article states, they expect Australia to financially contribute to setting up this infrastructure to increase the rate of submarine construction. This would have more benefit for the USN than the RAN.

My view is that the money needs to be used setting up the infrastructure in Australia to have control of the construction as well as ongoing maintenance of the submarine fleet, it will have the most benefit throughout the life of the vessels as well as allowing the money to circulate within our economy. This may mean a delay in introducing SSN’s into the RAN but the ongoing benefits are worth it. The post LOTE Collins boats would have to remain in service for their full hull life.
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Old 24th Sep 2022, 11:41
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"The US badly needs to expand the infrastructure supporting their Navy "

Trouble is that is taking forever and costs a fortune. Once you close a yard or a factory you lose people and the skills - and most of them never come back - as the Airline industry is discoveringQuick Reply
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Old 24th Sep 2022, 13:33
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/r...-us-navy-roles

Submariner Lieutenant Matt Main and Chief Petty Officer Stacy Gager have been working with US colleagues as part of the US-UK personnel exchange programme and long-lead specialist skills programme.

Lieutenant Main has already earned his Royal Navy ‘dolphins’ – the unique badge which signifies a qualified submariner – but on 10 June he was presented with the US equivalent after a gruelling 27-month training and qualification process.

Fully integrated into the crew of the USS New Mexico, Lieutenant Main is currently the damage control assistant and will become the assistant engineer in due course before returning to the Royal Navy….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_New_Mexico_(SSN-779)

USS New Mexico (SSN-779), a nuclear powered Virginia class attack submarine…. is the second of the Virginia Block II submarines to enter service….
It seems easier to turn an engineer into a warfare officer, than a warfare officer into an engineer. To some of us this is not a surprise .If the RAN were to go down the path of selecting both a USN design, and the USN method of crewing them, then the RAN's X branch woud be writing itself out of the picture.That alone makes the USN path unlikely.

Flap Track 6 is saying some things and in such a manner that at least suggest he/she is close to some info. Getting a fourth Western build line going (1 x Aus, 1 x UK, 2 x US) is important. Keeping two design teams and two designs going is also an important consideration. As the QEC proved it is possible to build first-of-class at a site that hasn't done significant builds for a long time - we have gotten better at this stuff.

Given the existing yard capacity constraints and personnel pipeline generation constraints, a LOTE of the Collins is pretty much a given. As is a lot of joint operation and deployment. And a lot of money has gone into Oman. The SSN(R) path seems to have the edge most ways. The more interesting question for some of us then becomes what systems would be selected. Assuming a USN fit being shoved into a first-of-class SSN(R) is perhaps a step too far.
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Old 27th Sep 2022, 04:50
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The deed is done

Looking more and more likely to be an off the shelf acquisition (hereís hoping anyway)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-a...-s-11663963244
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Old 27th Sep 2022, 05:47
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Originally Posted by Maggie Island View Post
Looking more and more likely to be an off the shelf acquisition (hereís hoping anyway)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-a...-s-11663963244
This appears to be a continuation of the discussions that the previous government had started. The intended outcome is the same as what Dutton had stated.
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