AUKUS
Joined: Apr 2011
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From: aus
Joined: Jun 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: South Pole
Joined: Aug 2009
Aviation Qualifications: Military
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From: Texas
Worth a read!
Washington Post
Washington Post
A whole lot of noise about something that's been going on for decades: it's not newsworthy to know that retired experts in {a field} get hired on as consultants in that field by interested parties. WaPo is making a mountain out of a molehill.
You may find a better audience for your breathless enthusiasm in the Mil Av thread about military British pilots (no longer in service) in China. (One of the more savvy posters points out that it's not just Brits involved)
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,618
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From: aus
Not really.
A whole lot of noise about something that's been going on for decades: it's not newsworthy to know that retired experts in {a field} get hired on as consultants in that field by interested parties. WaPo is making a mountain out of a molehill.
You may find a better audience for your breathless enthusiasm in the Mil Av thread about military British pilots (no longer in service) in China. (One of the more savvy posters points out that it's not just Brits involved)
A whole lot of noise about something that's been going on for decades: it's not newsworthy to know that retired experts in {a field} get hired on as consultants in that field by interested parties. WaPo is making a mountain out of a molehill.
You may find a better audience for your breathless enthusiasm in the Mil Av thread about military British pilots (no longer in service) in China. (One of the more savvy posters points out that it's not just Brits involved)
Dont like it then dont bother reading, nobody is forcing you to, I found it interesting, I knew it happened but gave me some extra info
Joined: Aug 2009
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From: Texas
Back on topic:
Might the Japanese eventually join into this august alliance?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...-counter-china
22 Oct 2022
Australia and Japan have agreed to share more intelligence and deepen military cooperation in what is being seen as a security pact aimed at countering China’s growing military presence in the Asia Pacific region.
Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and his Japanese counterpart Fumio Kishida agreed on Saturday to strengthen security ties at the annual Australia-Japan Leaders’ Meeting in the city of Perth.
As part of the closer partnership, Albanese said Japan’s military would train and exercise in northern Australia alongside Australian Defence Force personnel, and the exchange of intelligence would be boosted between both countries.
Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and his Japanese counterpart Fumio Kishida agreed on Saturday to strengthen security ties at the annual Australia-Japan Leaders’ Meeting in the city of Perth.
As part of the closer partnership, Albanese said Japan’s military would train and exercise in northern Australia alongside Australian Defence Force personnel, and the exchange of intelligence would be boosted between both countries.
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: A better place.
Aus Defence Minister saying B-21 is being examined.
https://australianaviation.com.au/20...raider-bomber/
The Australian article (paywalled) says:
Days after a senior American defence chief confirmed the US would consider selling its in-*development B-21 bomber to Australia, Mr Marles said the stealth aircraft were also being examined to give the ADF the ability to hold adversaries at bay over long distances. The capability would be examined as the review considered the wider purpose of the Defence Force, and what it needed to do, Mr Marles said.
The review, being undertaken by former defence minister Stephen Smith and former ADF chief Angus Houston, is running against a backdrop of Chinese aggression towards Taiwan that will form the central scenario for the force posture plans developed under the *process.
https://australianaviation.com.au/20...raider-bomber/
The Australian article (paywalled) says:
Days after a senior American defence chief confirmed the US would consider selling its in-*development B-21 bomber to Australia, Mr Marles said the stealth aircraft were also being examined to give the ADF the ability to hold adversaries at bay over long distances. The capability would be examined as the review considered the wider purpose of the Defence Force, and what it needed to do, Mr Marles said.
The review, being undertaken by former defence minister Stephen Smith and former ADF chief Angus Houston, is running against a backdrop of Chinese aggression towards Taiwan that will form the central scenario for the force posture plans developed under the *process.
Joined: Apr 2011
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From: aus
I think this is the way they will go, B-21 + upgraded collins or new Diesel electric. I am not convince that labor is on board with the SSN, or more specifically not in the timeframe the LNP were pushing. To me a prefered scheme (with no indication of costs yet) would 12-24 B-21, 6 Upgraded collins or 6 new build KSS-3 and then refurbish locally under close american supervision some 688's. Gives australia a grounding in nuclear sub construction and maintainance ready for the SSN (R/X) programs. And the 688's are about the same displacement as the a planned attack class so any work done on the shipyards in preperation for attack class wont go to waste
Joined: Dec 2017
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From: australia
I think we are getting SSN. A bomber is a distant maybe. The Collins life extension will go ahead. We won't buy another diesel. Only 4 more months to find out the plan.
Last edited by golder; 24th October 2022 at 03:42.
Thread Starter
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Peripatetic
I wouldn’t hold my breathe on the USA being able to ramp up sub production to fulfill an Oz order any time soon, or doing any overhauling of older subs except to keep USN numbers up.
https://www.defensenews.com/industry...id-labor-woes/
Defense firms outsource sub, carrier construction amid labor woes
https://www.defensenews.com/industry...id-labor-woes/
Defense firms outsource sub, carrier construction amid labor woes
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 638
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From: australia
However, the plan to build what we decide to get. Is to do it in Adelaide. Where the Collins was built. We will see.
The last time I looked and put the link in this thread, The US yards said they could produce 3 Virginia's a year. If they had a firm order for such, going forward. They would then invest in the infrastructure. This was even before the talk of a build or part build. For one or two Virginia's for AUKUS, to start us off.
I see that article as being the way they talk to congress, about investment infrastructure. “We are saturated in certain areas of the country. The Northeast is one of those. If we cannot bring the people to the work, we’re going to take the work to the people,” Rucker said.
Also the more states they are in. Gives them a broader base of political support. Perhaps they learnt that from the USAF
The last time I looked and put the link in this thread, The US yards said they could produce 3 Virginia's a year. If they had a firm order for such, going forward. They would then invest in the infrastructure. This was even before the talk of a build or part build. For one or two Virginia's for AUKUS, to start us off.
I see that article as being the way they talk to congress, about investment infrastructure. “We are saturated in certain areas of the country. The Northeast is one of those. If we cannot bring the people to the work, we’re going to take the work to the people,” Rucker said.
Also the more states they are in. Gives them a broader base of political support. Perhaps they learnt that from the USAF
Last edited by golder; 24th October 2022 at 08:47.
Joined: Apr 2011
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From: aus
It was litterally never the plan. They were going to be certainly domestically assembled, reactors and a propulsion are probably going to be foreign built but assembly would other systems would be done in australia, most likely adeliade
Evertonian
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From: #3117# Ppruner of the Year Nominee 2005
As someone who recalls the ruckus in certain Asian countries about the F-111, I genuinely can’t wait to see their reaction to B-21’s! 🤣
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From: Ferrara
"It was literally never the plan."
we know - and a great deal of time has been spent on here pointing out that it's going to be very difficult and take a long time and lots of $ to build, or even assemble, one in Adelaide
If the US can only build a couple per year after 70 years of experience, and the Brits struggle to produce one every 4 years or so, you can see the scale of the challenge in SA
we know - and a great deal of time has been spent on here pointing out that it's going to be very difficult and take a long time and lots of $ to build, or even assemble, one in Adelaide
If the US can only build a couple per year after 70 years of experience, and the Brits struggle to produce one every 4 years or so, you can see the scale of the challenge in SA
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Aus
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: surfing, watching for sharks
Likely a money saving idea however.
Joined: Oct 2018
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From: Ferrara
Hmm - not the same and not a great precedent - they were all late in delivery and they got later as time went one - the last one was over 3 years late I think
And the list of problems is typical -. SSN's are much more complex and the problems (and costs) escalate likewise. Best to rent/lease if you can until you understand more about ALL the issues involved.
Joined: May 2011
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From: Philippines
A thought i just had is conditions for resale. I believe the Oz F35 contract gives US the right to veto if we sell these planes. This came about because we sold Mirages to Pakistan who promptly made them capable of delivering muclear ordinance against US allies. And HMAS Melbourne was sold to China with intact catapults and arrester systems helping kick start Chinas carrier force. So any SSN deal will need a veto of who Autralia can resell these to!