UK Strategic Defence Review 2020 - get your bids in now ladies & gents
"It is a fascinating and repeated theme in the Civil Service that when faced with an emergency they are sometimes able to devise mechanisms for addressing the crisis. However, rather than develop these as advances to change the system and to spread best practice the tendency is to revert to the previous failed practice. However that is not just a matter for the Ministry of Defence but the wider public sector."
The official explanation, once given to me by a 2-Star, is this is seen as raising the bar, which is simply not tolerated as it raises expectation and highlights torpor.
The PM mentioned a freeze in recruitment of MOD civil servants as a starter. Although the headline 5% looks like the armed forces are bottom of the heap, with the consolidated £1,000 it's 7% at £50K and a shade under 8.4% at £30k. A 5% rise in MOD personnel costs based on 2021/22 would be £670 million.
You can't include one off payments as part of any % increase, that's just fudging the issue, has ne bearing on pensions etc.
What wasn't obvious when I posted the above was that junior doctors are getting a larger consolidated flat rate uplift, so doctors starting their first post university job they will be getting £3,000 more than those who started last year.
'The national salary pay scales for junior doctors will increase by 6% plus a permanent £1,250 increase. Average basic pay for a first year junior doctor will increase from £29,300 to £32,300
DCP23 coming out 18 July 2023 - some advance extracts here:
Refreshed Defence Command Paper sets out future for Armed Forces - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Refreshed Defence Command Paper sets out future for Armed Forces - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
Thread Starter
In today's Times Wallace says he 's sticking withe cuts in the Army numbers and "we're not hiding behind NATO"
A quick scan suggests nothing on force levels or equipment numbers.
Vague ambition to reach 2.5% of GDP budget as circumstances allow. Continued commitment to diversity.
Vague ambition to reach 2.5% of GDP budget as circumstances allow. Continued commitment to diversity.
So, this Government's idea of protecting the nation and making it prosper after examining the lessons learnt in Ukraine is:
Reduce the regular trained strength of the British Army by 9,000.
Withdraw the Warrior IFV after cancelling the upgrade after having spent £430m on upgrading it, leaving the British Army as THE only Tier one Army to not have an armed IFV.
Reduce the number of Challenger MBT's from 227 to 148.
Increase GBAD by adding a few extra Sky Sabre and Stormer Starstreak batteries.
Continue with 2 Regiments of 155mm self propelled artillery.
Retire the entire 14 aircraft fleet of C-130J Hercules.
Retire the Tranch 2 Typhoons leaving a force of 107 Tranche 3 and 4.
Somehow utilise the ex-Regular Reservists to add Strategic depth to a Global Response Force.
All this while a force of 100,000 Russian infantry with 900 Main Battle Tanks, 555 Artillery pieces and 370 Multiple Launch Rocket Systems has formed up to threaten the City of Kupyansk in the Kharkiv region.
Barely a Tory visible on the Government benches today with Labour after Labour member criticising the cuts and numbers.
Boy do we need a General Election NOW!!!!
Reduce the regular trained strength of the British Army by 9,000.
Withdraw the Warrior IFV after cancelling the upgrade after having spent £430m on upgrading it, leaving the British Army as THE only Tier one Army to not have an armed IFV.
Reduce the number of Challenger MBT's from 227 to 148.
Increase GBAD by adding a few extra Sky Sabre and Stormer Starstreak batteries.
Continue with 2 Regiments of 155mm self propelled artillery.
Retire the entire 14 aircraft fleet of C-130J Hercules.
Retire the Tranch 2 Typhoons leaving a force of 107 Tranche 3 and 4.
Somehow utilise the ex-Regular Reservists to add Strategic depth to a Global Response Force.
All this while a force of 100,000 Russian infantry with 900 Main Battle Tanks, 555 Artillery pieces and 370 Multiple Launch Rocket Systems has formed up to threaten the City of Kupyansk in the Kharkiv region.
Barely a Tory visible on the Government benches today with Labour after Labour member criticising the cuts and numbers.
Boy do we need a General Election NOW!!!!
The following users liked this post:
A couple of IMO sensible remarks by Wallace in the HoC today.
*Mr Barry Sheerman , (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
We can argue about size, but we have to make sure that whatever we put in the field is properly equipped and enabled, and is effectively 360°. That is really important. We therefore have to be honest about the size of our defence budget envelope. There is no point pretending that we can have huge numbers without a defence budget to match.
Importantly, many of us across the House understand that defence is a core function of a Government. It is not a discretionary spend stuck on the end; it is ultimately the core responsibility of a Government. I know that come the next election the battleground between these two Front-Bench teams will probably not see defence in it. We all know that. Many of us around this House who have campaigned for more defence will know that the election will come down to schools, hospitals, transport and everything else. The casualty of that is often defence, and we stop making the case to our citizens and our constituents as to why it is important. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman*, who always reminds people on this side of the House and, certainly under the previous leadership, in his party of the importance of defence.
The following users liked this post:
So, this Government's idea of protecting the nation and making it prosper after examining the lessons learnt in Ukraine is:
Reduce the regular trained strength of the British Army by 9,000.
Withdraw the Warrior IFV after cancelling the upgrade after having spent £430m on upgrading it, leaving the British Army as THE only Tier one Army to not have an armed IFV.
Reduce the number of Challenger MBT's from 227 to 148.
Increase GBAD by adding a few extra Sky Sabre and Stormer Starstreak batteries.
Continue with 2 Regiments of 155mm self propelled artillery.
Retire the entire 14 aircraft fleet of C-130J Hercules.
Retire the Tranch 2 Typhoons leaving a force of 107 Tranche 3 and 4.
Somehow utilise the ex-Regular Reservists to add Strategic depth to a Global Response Force.
All this while a force of 100,000 Russian infantry with 900 Main Battle Tanks, 555 Artillery pieces and 370 Multiple Launch Rocket Systems has formed up to threaten the City of Kupyansk in the Kharkiv region.
Barely a Tory visible on the Government benches today with Labour after Labour member criticising the cuts and numbers.
Boy do we need a General Election NOW!!!!
Reduce the regular trained strength of the British Army by 9,000.
Withdraw the Warrior IFV after cancelling the upgrade after having spent £430m on upgrading it, leaving the British Army as THE only Tier one Army to not have an armed IFV.
Reduce the number of Challenger MBT's from 227 to 148.
Increase GBAD by adding a few extra Sky Sabre and Stormer Starstreak batteries.
Continue with 2 Regiments of 155mm self propelled artillery.
Retire the entire 14 aircraft fleet of C-130J Hercules.
Retire the Tranch 2 Typhoons leaving a force of 107 Tranche 3 and 4.
Somehow utilise the ex-Regular Reservists to add Strategic depth to a Global Response Force.
All this while a force of 100,000 Russian infantry with 900 Main Battle Tanks, 555 Artillery pieces and 370 Multiple Launch Rocket Systems has formed up to threaten the City of Kupyansk in the Kharkiv region.
Barely a Tory visible on the Government benches today with Labour after Labour member criticising the cuts and numbers.
Boy do we need a General Election NOW!!!!
I did get the sense from Wallace in the House yesterday that he regrets what has happened to the Army under his watch, but he is still culpable for some decisions that are simply unfathomable. (Ajax, Warrior CSP, Ch3 reductions).
The number of Labour members who made any meaningful contribution were Healey, Spellar, Jones, Twigg, Sheerman and Antioniazzi. All got a courteous and accurate answer, even Spellar whose unfailing ability to come to the wrong conclusion or misunderstand is unmatched. All whinged about the reduction of strength in the Army. Not a single one was able to suggest why - even after that reduction - the British Army will still be some 10% larger than the Bundeswehr.
In contrast to your portrayal, Hansard records almost a dozen Tory contributions, nigh-on double that of Labour.
Be very careful what you wish for. Do you honestly think a party full of lefty lawyers will do anything other than mouth platitudes?
Er, when I watched it, the government benches were much fuller than the opposition ones - albeit there were perhaps 40 in the house in total. Including the Labour party's unspoken doyen Magic Grandpa......
The number of Labour members who made any meaningful contribution were Healey, Spellar, Jones, Twigg, Sheerman and Antioniazzi. All got a courteous and accurate answer, even Spellar whose unfailing ability to come to the wrong conclusion or misunderstand is unmatched. All whinged about the reduction of strength in the Army. Not a single one was able to suggest why - even after that reduction - the British Army will still be some 10% larger than the Bundeswehr.
In contrast to your portrayal, Hansard records almost a dozen Tory contributions, nigh-on double that of Labour.
Be very careful what you wish for. Do you honestly think a party full of lefty lawyers will do anything other than mouth platitudes?
The number of Labour members who made any meaningful contribution were Healey, Spellar, Jones, Twigg, Sheerman and Antioniazzi. All got a courteous and accurate answer, even Spellar whose unfailing ability to come to the wrong conclusion or misunderstand is unmatched. All whinged about the reduction of strength in the Army. Not a single one was able to suggest why - even after that reduction - the British Army will still be some 10% larger than the Bundeswehr.
In contrast to your portrayal, Hansard records almost a dozen Tory contributions, nigh-on double that of Labour.
Be very careful what you wish for. Do you honestly think a party full of lefty lawyers will do anything other than mouth platitudes?
A party full of lefty lawyers? Really? I think not! And I AM a lefty lawyer!
The government benches are to the left as you look....
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/...7-e7976ed68053
Shadow cabinet make-up.
Starmer. Lammy. Thomas-Symonds. Mahmood. Reynolds. Stevens. Murray. Thornberry - All lefty lawyers.
Cooper. Ashworth. Nandy. Dodds. McFadden. Healey. Milipede. Streeting. Powell. Haigh. Kyle. Debbonaire. Smith. Kennedy. Chapman. All worked exclusively in quangocracy / union / politics
Reeves - Banker
Allin-Khan - Doctor
Reed - Publishing
McMahon - Technician
Rayner. Kaur-Gill - Social workers
Campbell - Teacher
So half a dozen or so honourable exceptions. The rest, perennial politicians or - wait for it - lefty lawyers.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,037
Received 2,912 Likes
on
1,247 Posts
So where does this leave Puma's out of service date?
I might be wrong but it's getting to look more and more like...
I might be wrong but it's getting to look more and more like...
Thread Starter
"Do you honestly think a party full of lefty lawyers will do anything other than mouth platitudes?"
Labour built the UK atomic Bomb programme, they invested in Chevaline, obtained the C-17's, ordered the F-35's and the carriers and they strongly supported the recapture of the Falklands......
Not too shabby a list compared to the current Govt.
Labour built the UK atomic Bomb programme, they invested in Chevaline, obtained the C-17's, ordered the F-35's and the carriers and they strongly supported the recapture of the Falklands......
Not too shabby a list compared to the current Govt.
"Do you honestly think a party full of lefty lawyers will do anything other than mouth platitudes?"
Labour built the UK atomic Bomb programme, they invested in Chevaline, obtained the C-17's, ordered the F-35's and the carriers and they strongly supported the recapture of the Falklands......
Not too shabby a list compared to the current Govt.
Labour built the UK atomic Bomb programme, they invested in Chevaline, obtained the C-17's, ordered the F-35's and the carriers and they strongly supported the recapture of the Falklands......
Not too shabby a list compared to the current Govt.
Blair -or more precisely Robertson - did produce a good SDR98, but then Labour failed to fund it. I'm fairly sure the order for the 48 F35s was actually placed by the coalition.
The other thing Blair and his increasingly lefty lawyer cabal did was to commit the UK to two enduring operations way beyond the scale of the defence planning assumptions and then fail to increase funding to match that commitment. That failure was a direct contributor to the hollowing out and SDSR 2010 cuts and the root of many of our current issues.. But you knew that anyway, didn't you?
In the event Starmer gets in, expect a (covert) re-run of the RAFs equality drive, because that's what they're interested in.
Last edited by Not_a_boffin; 20th Jul 2023 at 09:09.
The following users liked this post:
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Perhaps a distraction, but unrest in the HoC Defence Committee.
https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/l...s-long-summer/
POLITICO London Playbook:
THE MORNING AFTER: Tobias Ellwood is waking up to a no-confidence motion in his chairmanship of the Commons Defense Committee from MPs baffled by his video of Afghanistan. Ellwood deleted the clip from his Twitter on Wednesday night — telling TalkTV’s Piers Morgan: “I got it wrong.”
The night before: Fellow committee members went gunning for Ellwood after he released what one, Mark Francois, called a “silly and naive” video “lauding” Taliban rule. After it was raised at PMQs and derided by Afghan women. Ellwood told Morgan his point about re-engagement was taken out of context but “could have been much better done.”
The night just gone: Elwood posted a tweet and statement in the small hours in which he said “I don’t always get it right” and that he was sorry for his “poor communication.”
The problem is: It’s too late to withdraw the no-confidence motion — because it’s now been formally submitted, three people tell your author and my colleague Esther Webber. The motion, signed by Francois and three other members, is due to appear on the committee’s website later this morning. MailOnline got the first sniff before the Times reported the motion was on the way.
THESE GUYS KNOW HOW TO DO WAR: One snout tells Playbook there have been wider grumblings for a while at Ellwood’s high-profile musings as chair from some of his colleagues, who took the clip as their personal final straw. Matters worsened when he was notified of the plot against him but did not step aside on Wednesday, two people said. Playbook was unable to reach Ellwood for comment.
What happens now: Er, we wait. Erskine May says a no-confidence motion needs 10 sitting days’ notice, meaning it can only be debated in mid-September. To pass it needs at least half the committee including two Tories and one opposition MP. Plenty of time left in the trenches yet.
https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/l...s-long-summer/
POLITICO London Playbook:
THE MORNING AFTER: Tobias Ellwood is waking up to a no-confidence motion in his chairmanship of the Commons Defense Committee from MPs baffled by his video of Afghanistan. Ellwood deleted the clip from his Twitter on Wednesday night — telling TalkTV’s Piers Morgan: “I got it wrong.”
The night before: Fellow committee members went gunning for Ellwood after he released what one, Mark Francois, called a “silly and naive” video “lauding” Taliban rule. After it was raised at PMQs and derided by Afghan women. Ellwood told Morgan his point about re-engagement was taken out of context but “could have been much better done.”
The night just gone: Elwood posted a tweet and statement in the small hours in which he said “I don’t always get it right” and that he was sorry for his “poor communication.”
The problem is: It’s too late to withdraw the no-confidence motion — because it’s now been formally submitted, three people tell your author and my colleague Esther Webber. The motion, signed by Francois and three other members, is due to appear on the committee’s website later this morning. MailOnline got the first sniff before the Times reported the motion was on the way.
THESE GUYS KNOW HOW TO DO WAR: One snout tells Playbook there have been wider grumblings for a while at Ellwood’s high-profile musings as chair from some of his colleagues, who took the clip as their personal final straw. Matters worsened when he was notified of the plot against him but did not step aside on Wednesday, two people said. Playbook was unable to reach Ellwood for comment.
What happens now: Er, we wait. Erskine May says a no-confidence motion needs 10 sitting days’ notice, meaning it can only be debated in mid-September. To pass it needs at least half the committee including two Tories and one opposition MP. Plenty of time left in the trenches yet.