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UK Strategic Defence Review 2020 - get your bids in now ladies & gents

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UK Strategic Defence Review 2020 - get your bids in now ladies & gents

Old 5th Feb 2020, 17:06
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
I think it's 6-8 aircraft a year? Hardly Lord Beaverbrooke in charge is it..............
Given the eye watering cost of the things what do you suggest should be put to one side to increase ability to pay for an 'Expansion Plan'?
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 07:20
  #202 (permalink)  
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well they're hiring a couple more Fisheries Protection cutters according to the Press today..................
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Old 6th Feb 2020, 07:26
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn
Given the eye watering cost of the things what do you suggest should be put to one side to increase ability to pay for an 'Expansion Plan'?
Oh, I don't know....£6B for two boats, oops sorry, carriers can't be a total waste of money?!

OAP
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 07:24
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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Save billions - create ' A JOINT DEFENCE FORCE '

Don't worry it will NEVER happen !!!
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 09:20
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Originally Posted by BVRAAM
As a matter of fact, Trump has already hinted he will retaliate if they so much as dare strike another allied country again.
His restraint really is a sign of strength - a level of strength his predecessor didn't have. Iran should take that as a warning, and not as a cop out. Donald Trump doesn't make idle threats. Iran will call his bluff at their peril.
Hmmm. Or is he an unstable, unpredictable, posturing pufball who is prone to petulant outbursts of anger (which are then quickly forgotten) and who is not 'in command of his brief' and has little grasp of anything? I suspect that any restraint shown is forced on the great Tangoed Spaff Badger by senior advisers.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 09:29
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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A tad OTT?
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 09:41
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Originally Posted by BVRAAM
....the UK was offered F-22 in the 90's (reliable source), but the cost was astronomical and unjustifiable given our commitment to Typhoon at the time. Besides, it's not as if we need it now we have the F-35, which is just as good, if not better.
Totally different aircraft with different roles. Does anyone think that F-35 is "just as good" as F-22 as an air defender? Or that the F-22 is in the same ballpark as F-35 for air-to-ground?

Simplistic and misleading b*llocks.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 09:43
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jindabyne
A tad OTT?
Undeniably. But no more so than attempting to portray Mr Trump as being restrained, carefully calculating and statesmanlike. And probably a fair bit closer to the truth.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 12:18
  #209 (permalink)  
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Must admit I can see the UK Govt changing the balance of the F-35 order to the F-35A - that way they can say they're still buying the same number of air-frames but not need extra funding............
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 12:54
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
Must admit I can see the UK Govt changing the balance of the F-35 order to the F-35A - that way they can say they're still buying the same number of air-frames but not need extra funding............
Adding a probe to A-model might not come for free. Nor is the alternative of putting a boom on Voyager........and that's before you get to the ILS costs of supporting two different variants which are nowhere near as common as originally hoped.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 13:50
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Originally Posted by Not_a_boffin
Adding a probe to A-model might not come for free. Nor is the alternative of putting a boom on Voyager........and that's before you get to the ILS costs of supporting two different variants which are nowhere near as common as originally hoped.
Have you got a commonality figure? Or are you just guessing?
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 14:40
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http://www.congress.gov/114/crpt/srp...114srpt255.pdf

Nigh on four years old, admittedly. Relevant extract at bottom of page 280, citing 20-25% commonality (primarily in cockpits) across versions. For some reason I can't paste the exact section into this post.

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Old 7th Feb 2020, 15:42
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I am amazed it is so low.

I'm sure I've seen figures quoting higher.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 16:20
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
Russia currently is operating around 3 "Borey" SSBN + 1 Typhoon + 7 Deltas - the Deltas are between 30 & 40 years old.

They have 10 Akulas SSN's which are approx 30 years old plus 1 Yasen which is about 6 years old

Also some SSK's and , old Oscars etc

these are split across 3 oceans

It's still a meaningful force but it's about the same as the UK plus France put together - and they are in one ocean.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...o-russian-subs

Gets interesting doesn't it!
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 16:32
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To quote Miss Rice-Davies "well he would say that .." etc

from the same article:-

"Lewis did not offer any specific details on the total number of Russian submarines the U.S. military believes are on patrol in the Atlantic at any given time compared to previous years. There has been significant debate about the exact scale of Russia's undersea activities, especially compared to peaks in the Soviet Navy's operations at the height of the Cold War, and whether the Kremlin has only been able to generate the additional deployments by pulling resources from the Pacific region."


But this is nothing cp the "threats" that all sides will be preparing to tell the British Press & Public about when the day gets closer for the publication of the UK Review........
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 18:42
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
To quote Miss Rice-Davies "well he would say that .." etc

from the same article:-

"Lewis did not offer any specific details on the total number of Russian submarines the U.S. military believes are on patrol in the Atlantic at any given time compared to previous years. There has been significant debate about the exact scale of Russia's undersea activities, especially compared to peaks in the Soviet Navy's operations at the height of the Cold War, and whether the Kremlin has only been able to generate the additional deployments by pulling resources from the Pacific region."


But this is nothing cp the "threats" that all sides will be preparing to tell the British Press & Public about when the day gets closer for the publication of the UK Review........
I think you’ve missed the point of the article. You’ve discounted them as a militia of the sea, when it would seem they’re actually not.
Troll alert!! What will you be telling the Press? You seem a little too informed, and on here almost continuously, to just be a spotter.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 19:11
  #217 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jackonicko
Totally different aircraft with different roles. Does anyone think that F-35 is "just as good" as F-22 as an air defender? Or that the F-22 is in the same ballpark as F-35 for air-to-ground?

Simplistic and misleading b*llocks.
Can I respectfully remind you that the F-22 was designed as a specialist air superiority fighter. It was given a limited air to ground capability to allow the Brass to present the case that they are making full use of their expensive assets.

Therefore, no, the F-35 cannot perform as well as the F-22 at 60,000' because it can't even get there, much less punch off an AMRAAM at said height at M2 and perform tactical manoeuvres (thanks to vectored thrust) that other fast jets simply cannot do.
In an era of finite budgets and multi-role fighters, the aircraft that can do the most with the least are "better" and more desirable than those that can't, which is exactly why Project CENTURION was applied to the Typhoon. The F-35 was designed to be very good at a lot of things, not to excel at one thing. Therefore it is absolutely better than the F-22 as an all-round platform.

My personal favourite FJs of all time, are the F-15C and Tornado F.3 - two specialist air defence aircraft, designed for very different areas of air defence. From a personal level I don't like multi-role, but it's not about personal preference, as much as it is the needs of a country verses the money they have to spend.
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 20:14
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I don't like multi-role, but it's not about personal preference, as much as it is the needs of a country verses the money they have to spend.
Strange comment. Isn't multi role capability about more bangs for the buck? That aside, the technology works and is proven - so why not go there?
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Old 7th Feb 2020, 21:00
  #219 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BVRAAM
From a personal level I don't like multi-role, but it's not about personal preference, as much as it is the needs of a country verses the money they have to spend.
May we ask why, in all your experience, that you don’t like multi-role?
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 00:09
  #220 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jindabyne
Strange comment. Isn't multi role capability about more bangs for the buck? That aside, the technology works and is proven - so why not go there?
Please re-read my post.
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