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UK Strategic Defence Review 2020 - get your bids in now ladies & gents

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

UK Strategic Defence Review 2020 - get your bids in now ladies & gents

Old 14th Jun 2020, 18:07
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Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.
Although I served as military aircrew for 35 years, these days I'm only a 'backroom boy' - although 'boy' is perhaps rather a generous term given that I left the RAF some 17 years ago.

Asturias56, if you don't meet the stated criteria, perhaps you should quit the fix?




Please?
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 18:25
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BEagle

For once it would appear that you and I are in violent agreement.

What colour is the moon where you are?!

BV
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 18:46
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Moon

Moon rise here isn't until around 02:20 local time and moon phase is currently 34% and waning.

But the last time I saw it, the moon looked light grey / white and I'll be b*ggered if I'll be getting up to check... I once saw it through a German mate's astronomical telescope....amazing! Saturn was even more so!!

Hope all is OK with you - are you still incarcerated?
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 18:54
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BEagle, you know well that the great majority of posters here are not serving, not the least reason being that posting and serving can be injurious to one's prospects, depending on the subject matter and views expressed. So, many of the threads and the posts tend to be from those who have previously served in UK Military Aviation, either in uniform or as a civvy, ie civvies! I see no reason why such civvies should not be augmented by other full time civvies who, as Asturias points out, are taxpayers too. There is a tendency hereabouts to tell people whose views or background are out of favour to naff off. In my experience the more varied people's backgrounds, the more interesting and informative the debate. It often takes an outsider to question the Emperor's choice of clothing.

In the meantime might I suggest that we be more tolerant of thread starters and leave it to the Mods to decide what action, if any, is called for? We can't guarantee that every thread is pleasing to the eye, or every post a literary gem. But there'll be another one along very soon, Sir.
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 19:02
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Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.
I'd include those who've previously served in that statement, but emphatically NOT others.
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Old 14th Jun 2020, 19:27
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Quote:
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.
I'd include those who've previously served in that statement, but emphatically NOT others.
You are welcome to your own opinion of course, but forever quoting that Forum tag as though it were carved in stone doesn't get us very far. Complain to the mods if you feel strongly enough. In the meantime OP, take no notice and carry on!
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 07:10
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I think the nail has been hit on the head as to why many current serving pers avoid this forum like the plague.
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 07:30
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BEagle and Downsizer

BEagle, I am well thankyou. Lockdown has been remarkably kind to me so far so I canít complain.

Downsizer, you are quite correct. If it isnít the constant threat of disciplinary action for saying the wrong thing on here, itís the banal postings from several notable individuals who have no real reason for being on here that have frightened off the majority of currently serving personnel.

I have nothing against anyone who has a valid connection (either ex or current serving or civil servants) being on here. However, some people just need to be a little better at self policing their contributions.

Starting a thread and then regularly resuscitating it when nobody else shows any interest in it just gets tedious.

The time will come to discuss the next SDR so canít we just wait until we actually know some detail? I think itís clear the OP has had all the speculation heís likely to get for now so give it a rest.

As for me, well I regularly find myself with too much time on my hands and canít resist giving my thoughts. But then you knew that already.

BV
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 09:35
  #289 (permalink)  
 
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When i joined here 14 years ago (that in itself seems incredible) you could ask a question and be flooded with relevant answers. I think my first postings were for help with DA and moves in MQs!

The issue IMHO these days is when someone asks a question like that (or similar) these days one gets told how to fill out a F1771 from the 80s. Which would be great except they went out in 2005 with JPA.

Now I've got nothing against nostalgia (is it what it used to be?) and I'll be civvy once again, the journey is nearer the end than the beginning now, but my plea would be to keep replies relevant to the topic.

The only notable exception I can think of recently is the dude who want advice about London Accom and he got a few decent replies.

Anywhooo....mandatory online course to complete....gotta get the stats up.
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 16:56
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Downsizer - still is useful - there's an interesting thread on Nimrod Ops in the Falklands which has been a mine of information recently and the Computer thread is also very useful.

Those who find a thread tedious - such as any thread about a major accident after 2 days, of Virgin Australia - -- it's simple - don't read it...............
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 17:18
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[QUOTE]Those who find a thread tedious - such as any thread about a major accident after 2 days, of Virgin Australia - -- it's simple - don't read it.............../QUOTE]

Or, alternatively, those who don't know wtf they're talking about/spout worthless drivel/display borderline trolling, don't bother posting... that's equally as simple.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 07:48
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Back in the day when the Earth was still cooling and the PPRuNe military forum was first created, there was no Twitter, Facebook or other social meeja. No broadband Internet, dial-up was slow and expensive, mobile phones were still quite rare and only did voice and sms. So posting on PPRuNe wasn't as simple as today - which meant that it was a bit like a 'virtual crew room', so light hearted posts and reminiscing were somewhat the norm.

Many early adopters used a 'nom de PPRuNe' identity to avoid the persecution meted out by anxious not-that-senior officers who didn't like their dirty washing being exposed. Whereas in fact the really-very-senior officers in the MoD box quite liked the fact that they could find things out directly without facts being filtered or supressed by the chiselling thrusters who hated PPRuNe!

Today it's different. The 'virtual crew room' is no more and the nature of the website has changed. So it really doesn't surprise me that few serving aircrew visit here any more.... Which is a pity.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 10:04
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Nostalgia isn't what it used to be, eh Beags? From the get go PPRuNe has been a public forum. If you are a registered member you can post on any PPRuNe forum you choose, with the exceptions of the Airline Specific Private Forums. If serving members (and Backroom Boys and Girls, whoever they might be) wish to post in private then I suggest that an approach be made to the owners/mods for such a Private Military Aviation Forum to be established, but I should caution about being careful for what you wish for. My forecast is that it would die a not so slow death of sheer disinterest, along with the even easier task of identifying off message posters. So good luck with that.

Alternatively, let us all accept that this is a broad church of different nationalities, Services, backgrounds, and ages. The most popular thread in this forum was headed up for many years by a civilian, and an ex-VAT inspector at that! Tolerance, let that be our watchword!

OP, your thread seems to have been drifted into the outer reaches of the Galaxy. As one of the offenders my apologies, but it has served a purpose I hope you agree. Any time you or other members want to regain normal service please do...
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 11:12
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This could be much more like a crew room.....plenty of room for nostalgia as well, just on appropriate threads....

If I was sat in my current T-bar, 2m away from a colleague, and I asked him a question relevant to current activity, it would be rude of someone else to but in from a different 2m with a completely irrelevant answer no? I'd suggest if that person kept doing that, they'd find themselves self isolating in their own office.
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Old 5th Jul 2020, 06:50
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...oved-bc2zbqm2h

Army ‘to be cut by 20,000’ if No 10 plan is approved

Royal Marine commandos may vanish as Cummings backs cyber-warfare and shoots forces chief ‘down in flames

Defence chiefs have drawn up plans to slash the army by a quarter and reduce the Royal Marines to a bit part as part of Boris Johnson’s defence and security review.

The drastic cuts, which would also close airfields and take helicopters out of service, were drawn up in response to Treasury demands that Whitehall departments map out cuts of 5% or more as part of the government’s comprehensive spending review.

In the worst-case scenario:
...
  • Army manpower would fall from 74,000 to 55,000
  • The Royal Marines commando brigade would be disbanded, losing its artillery, engineers and landing craft. Royal Navy minesweepers would also face the axe
  • The RAF would shut several airbases and shed its fleet of Hercules transport planes and small Puma helicopters.


Threatened cuts to key capabilities that then do not materialise are known as “shroud-waving” in Whitehall, where they are a common feature of defence reviews. But this time security sources say that Dominic Cummings, the prime minister’s senior aide, is attracted to the proposal to slash the size of the army and pump money into cyber-warfare, space and artificial intelligence.

Cummings has already flexed his security muscles, driving through a plan to spend £400m buying a 45% share of bankrupt satellite company OneWeb last week. John Bew, who is supposed to be running the security review in No 10 did not even know about that plan.......

Cummings held a “getting-to-know-you” exercise with the service chiefs last month, when sources say the “personal chemistry” was “ a disaster”. General Sir Patrick Sanders, who as Commander of Strategic Command is in charge of all the MoD’s special forces and intelligence units, “boasted” about his work on cyber-warfare but a source present said Cummings “shot him down in flames” leaving Sanders “humiliated”. No 10 disputes this.

Whitehall officials say the ousting last week of Sir Mark Sedwill as cabinet secretary and national security adviser will allow Cummings to take charge of the defence review because David Frost, Johnson’s chief Brexit negotiator, will not take over as national security adviser until the autumn.

Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, last week held an away day for service chiefs at the Tower of London to thrash out the MoD’s approach to the review. Two sources say General Sir Mark Carleton-Smith, head of the army, was open to a manpower cut, offset by the introduction of robot vehicles and artificial intelligence, but this was resisted by Wallace and General Sir Nick Carter, the chief of the defence staff, who want to keep army numbers at about 72,000.

The list of cuts prepared for the Treasury was not discussed. Instead Wallace presided over a discussion of “the threat”. But another source said the defence secretary would have to get Tory MPs to protest to Johnson if he wished to win the argument with Cummings in the long term: “Wallace’s only hope is to mobilise the Tory backbenchers.”

A No 10 spokesman said: “It is false to say No 10 plans to cut defence. We will fulfil our manifesto commitments, including to increase the defence budget above inflation. We do not recognise the accounts of the alleged meetings.”
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Old 5th Jul 2020, 08:22
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So I guess that if the Puma goes then Benson will be one of the stations for the chop.
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Old 5th Jul 2020, 09:07
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I have long thought that Cummings would agitate for a rebalancing away from Ďinterventioní type capabilities to focus resource on those needed for European and Atlantic security, which as well as being the UKís core defensive interests also fit well with his technological and scientific agendas. I think that would be the right thing to do, provided that we can get past Ďuse it or lose ití as the force becomes more specialised, it becoming harder (and a lot more expensive - eg burning off 5th gen flying hours on Op SHADER!) to use it for other tasks. More importantly I think the great British public could very easily be convinced that that was the right thing to do. The service chiefs might not like it though. These reported discussions sound very much as if thatís a possible direction of travel, although I am standing by to be corrected on Cummingsís influence over Government decision-making
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Old 5th Jul 2020, 11:45
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I thought Benson was regarded as a key divert option for mil fixed wing in the south of the country, with its north/south runway? I doubt the retirement of the Puma, early or as planned, would necessarily mean the closure of Benson.
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Old 5th Jul 2020, 11:51
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I don't remember voting for that obnoxious git Cummins, I have a feeling that his comeuppance is due soon and then he'll be off to his island bolthole when the chips are down.

IG
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Old 5th Jul 2020, 15:21
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The press release launching the new RM uniform gave a clue as to what might lie ahead:

"Royal Marines Commandos are to get a brand new uniform under the most significant transformation and rebranding programme launched since World War 2."

"Under the Future Commando Force programme more Royal Marines will operate from the sea, utilising new and innovative technology as high-readiness troops, forward deployed and ready to react, whether that’s war-fighting, specific combat missions such as commando raids, or providing humanitarian assistance"

So it looks like - perhaps - more emphasis on larger RM teams on QE Class carriers, DDs & RFAs and perhaps a rundown of the "storming the beach" capability using LPD, LCU & LCVP.

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-an...es-new-uniform
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