UK unveils new next generation fighter jet, the 'Tempest'
The existence of the "Partnering Feasibility Study" does not exactly leave me with the impression that the UK is confident in the affordability of Tempest. Yes, a lot of it will be about relationship management with the Saudis, but the existence of such an activity would be less likely if the programme was on a sound financial footing. There will obviously be people in Whitehall strongly opposed to such a partnership, for reasons of security if nothing else, so ask yourself why anyone would argue against them, and with enough force to convince ministers to leave the door cracked open in this way.
"I suppose it'd be rude to ask if you've got any facts to back it up?"
Look at the history of the last 50 years - - almost all serious European military hardware has been produced by consortiums of countries and several of those failed because of costs/work share issues
The UK and Italy are middling economic entities - Japan is richer but has rarely participated in multi- national developments. The estimated costs are already way north of £ 25 Bn - up to £ 40 Bn - which is way above any indicative long term funding. We can't even afford to buy F-35's at a reasonable rate - how do you think we can afford a completely new aircraft?
look at the comments here
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/temp...jet-programme/
The current £ 2Bn is really to keep the design teams at BAe etc ticking over
Look at the history of the last 50 years - - almost all serious European military hardware has been produced by consortiums of countries and several of those failed because of costs/work share issues
The UK and Italy are middling economic entities - Japan is richer but has rarely participated in multi- national developments. The estimated costs are already way north of £ 25 Bn - up to £ 40 Bn - which is way above any indicative long term funding. We can't even afford to buy F-35's at a reasonable rate - how do you think we can afford a completely new aircraft?
look at the comments here
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/temp...jet-programme/
The current £ 2Bn is really to keep the design teams at BAe etc ticking over
The existence of the "Partnering Feasibility Study" does not exactly leave me with the impression that the UK is confident in the affordability of Tempest. Yes, a lot of it will be about relationship management with the Saudis, but the existence of such an activity would be less likely if the programme was on a sound financial footing. There will obviously be people in Whitehall strongly opposed to such a partnership, for reasons of security if nothing else, so ask yourself why anyone would argue against them, and with enough force to convince ministers to leave the door cracked open in this way.
.Edit. It has been stared that BAE Warton would not exist in its current format were it not for the Saudi orders and updates of Tornado and Typhoon.
The following users liked this post:
It's also worth pointing out that Tempest is being developed in the same time frame as SSN-AUKUS
I can't see how the UK can afford both programmes
I can't see how the UK can afford both programmes
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Is it being developed through NATO, because Tornado was and Typhoon is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavi..._Aircraft_GmbH
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofi...yphoon#Origins
Err, no - they were developed through international consortia, but NATO had nothing to do with them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavi..._Aircraft_GmbH
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofi...yphoon#Origins
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavi..._Aircraft_GmbH
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofi...yphoon#Origins
MRCA Tornado was developed through funding by each the 3 partner nations through the NATO MRCA Management Agency NAMMA. Officials from each of the MoD and Airforce were seconded to NAMMA in Munich.
NAMMA was then broadened to NETMA to encompass Eurofighter.
NAMMA and NETMA were/are the Management Agencies and prime customer through which the projects are ordered and managed including development, acquisition and spares ordering. The N standing for NATO and the NATO logo is on all of the formal paperwork.
But on reflection, it would have been much cheaper for the UK to have partnered with the other European programme, notwithstanding the issues associated with the French demanding leadership.
But it has decided not to do that and gone ahead with Tempest, initially alone and then with Italy and now Japan.
Frankly I will be surprised if Europe can actually deliver both and GCAP/Tempest appears to be making some progress towards a first flight.
What interests me most is what engine will be used for this first flight assuming it actually happens in the projected timescale. Whether a version of EJ200 or an all new engine.
The following users liked this post:
Personally think that Australia will join specifically with MQ-28 as the Lanca part of the program. Maybe some dollars kicked in as well. Also think sweden will upgrade from observer status to an actual participant and theres also a chance that germany will withdraw from FCAS and participate in tempest instead
The following users liked this post:
"I suppose it'd be rude to ask if you've got any facts to back it up?"
Look at the history of the last 50 years - - almost all serious European military hardware has been produced by consortiums of countries and several of those failed because of costs/work share issues
The UK and Italy are middling economic entities - Japan is richer but has rarely participated in multi- national developments. The estimated costs are already way north of £ 25 Bn - up to £ 40 Bn - which is way above any indicative long term funding. We can't even afford to buy F-35's at a reasonable rate - how do you think we can afford a completely new aircraft?
look at the comments here
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/temp...jet-programme/
The current £ 2Bn is really to keep the design teams at BAe etc ticking over
Look at the history of the last 50 years - - almost all serious European military hardware has been produced by consortiums of countries and several of those failed because of costs/work share issues
The UK and Italy are middling economic entities - Japan is richer but has rarely participated in multi- national developments. The estimated costs are already way north of £ 25 Bn - up to £ 40 Bn - which is way above any indicative long term funding. We can't even afford to buy F-35's at a reasonable rate - how do you think we can afford a completely new aircraft?
look at the comments here
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/temp...jet-programme/
The current £ 2Bn is really to keep the design teams at BAe etc ticking over
Yeah but then you're facing the same issues you'd have with the Saudis - see the F35 issues
as money flows to different parts of the world - or rather as the appetite to spend money on military developments does so - we're all going to find some of our new "friends" a bit uncomfortable.
as money flows to different parts of the world - or rather as the appetite to spend money on military developments does so - we're all going to find some of our new "friends" a bit uncomfortable.
Yeah but then you're facing the same issues you'd have with the Saudis - see the F35 issues
as money flows to different parts of the world - or rather as the appetite to spend money on military developments does so - we're all going to find some of our new "friends" a bit uncomfortable.
as money flows to different parts of the world - or rather as the appetite to spend money on military developments does so - we're all going to find some of our new "friends" a bit uncomfortable.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
They’re looking at LDEW (laser) rather than a gun.
Advantages are no ammunition limit and usable against drones etc. Depending how it’s mounted with the EO system it can also be used off bresight and for self-defence against SAW and AAM.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/e...ccuracy-boost/
Advantages are no ammunition limit and usable against drones etc. Depending how it’s mounted with the EO system it can also be used off bresight and for self-defence against SAW and AAM.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/e...ccuracy-boost/
only needs a small N power plant in the back to power it as well!
or a very long extension lead.....................
or a very long extension lead.....................
easily solved
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
https://aircosmosinternational.com/a...20two%20spools.
Tempest: Rolls-Royce manufactures electrical starter generator
The future sixth-generation British combat aircraft, Tempest, intended to replace the Eurofighter Typhoon within the RAF, will benefit from additional electrical systems, including an embedded turbine engine starting device developed by Rolls-Royce.
Rolls-Royce could equip the future Tempest, intended to replace the Eurofighter Typhoon within the RAF, with an embedded electrical starter generator system for turbine engines. Purpose of the operation: save space and provide the large amount of electrical power required by future fighters.
Indeed, “existing aircraft engines generate power through a gearbox underneath the engine, which drives a generator. In addition to adding moving parts and complexity, the space required outside the engine for the gearbox and generator makes the airframe larger, which is undesirable in a stealthy platform”, explained Conrad Banks, Chief Engineer for Future Programmes at Rolls-Royce.
In 2014, Rolls-Royce designed an electrical starter generator that was fully embedded in the core of a gas turbine engine, now known as the Embedded Electrical Starter Generator or E2SG demonstrator program.
The launch of the second phase of the project in 2017 saw the inclusion of a second electrical generator connected to the other spool of the engine. It also included an energy storage system in the electrical network and the ability to intelligently manage the supply of power between all these systems.
The two-spool mounted electrical machines allows, by combination of operation as either a motor or a generator, the production of a series of functional effects on the engine, including the transfer of power electrically between the two spools.
Throughout the Tempest program, Rolls-Royce will be continuing to mature the electrical technologies demonstrated by the E2SG program, with a third phase of testing likely to include a novel thermal management system being integrated with the overall system.
https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/press-releases.aspx
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...fighter-engine
Unverified reports that RR say they expect to be able to generate 1mw of electrical power out of the engine…
Tempest: Rolls-Royce manufactures electrical starter generator
The future sixth-generation British combat aircraft, Tempest, intended to replace the Eurofighter Typhoon within the RAF, will benefit from additional electrical systems, including an embedded turbine engine starting device developed by Rolls-Royce.
Rolls-Royce could equip the future Tempest, intended to replace the Eurofighter Typhoon within the RAF, with an embedded electrical starter generator system for turbine engines. Purpose of the operation: save space and provide the large amount of electrical power required by future fighters.
Indeed, “existing aircraft engines generate power through a gearbox underneath the engine, which drives a generator. In addition to adding moving parts and complexity, the space required outside the engine for the gearbox and generator makes the airframe larger, which is undesirable in a stealthy platform”, explained Conrad Banks, Chief Engineer for Future Programmes at Rolls-Royce.
In 2014, Rolls-Royce designed an electrical starter generator that was fully embedded in the core of a gas turbine engine, now known as the Embedded Electrical Starter Generator or E2SG demonstrator program.
The launch of the second phase of the project in 2017 saw the inclusion of a second electrical generator connected to the other spool of the engine. It also included an energy storage system in the electrical network and the ability to intelligently manage the supply of power between all these systems.
The two-spool mounted electrical machines allows, by combination of operation as either a motor or a generator, the production of a series of functional effects on the engine, including the transfer of power electrically between the two spools.
Throughout the Tempest program, Rolls-Royce will be continuing to mature the electrical technologies demonstrated by the E2SG program, with a third phase of testing likely to include a novel thermal management system being integrated with the overall system.
https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/press-releases.aspx
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...fighter-engine
Unverified reports that RR say they expect to be able to generate 1mw of electrical power out of the engine…