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UK unveils new next generation fighter jet, the 'Tempest'

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UK unveils new next generation fighter jet, the 'Tempest'

Old 20th Aug 2023, 16:21
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lots of technology demonstrator stuff but I doubt we'll see a real aircarft......................
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Old 20th Aug 2023, 17:15
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Originally Posted by ORAC
https://aircosmosinternational.com/a...20two%20spools.

Tempest: Rolls-Royce manufactures electrical starter generator

The future sixth-generation British combat aircraft, Tempest, intended to replace the Eurofighter Typhoon within the RAF, will benefit from additional electrical systems, including an embedded turbine engine starting device developed by Rolls-Royce.

Rolls-Royce could equip the future Tempest, intended to replace the Eurofighter Typhoon within the RAF, with an embedded electrical starter generator system for turbine engines. Purpose of the operation: save space and provide the large amount of electrical power required by future fighters.

Indeed, “existing aircraft engines generate power through a gearbox underneath the engine, which drives a generator. In addition to adding moving parts and complexity, the space required outside the engine for the gearbox and generator makes the airframe larger, which is undesirable in a stealthy platform”, explained Conrad Banks, Chief Engineer for Future Programmes at Rolls-Royce.

In 2014, Rolls-Royce designed an electrical starter generator that was fully embedded in the core of a gas turbine engine, now known as the Embedded Electrical Starter Generator or E2SG demonstrator program.

The launch of the second phase of the project in 2017 saw the inclusion of a second electrical generator connected to the other spool of the engine. It also included an energy storage system in the electrical network and the ability to intelligently manage the supply of power between all these systems.

The two-spool mounted electrical machines allows, by combination of operation as either a motor or a generator, the production of a series of functional effects on the engine, including the transfer of power electrically between the two spools.

Throughout the Tempest program, Rolls-Royce will be continuing to mature the electrical technologies demonstrated by the E2SG program, with a third phase of testing likely to include a novel thermal management system being integrated with the overall system.

https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/press-releases.aspx

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...fighter-engine

Unverified reports that RR say they expect to be able to generate 1mw of electrical power out of the engine…
A good idea, if an obvious one given the F-35 history, where cooling requirements outran the supply. Not sure why, but it was a known issue in 2010. I can't think of any other aircraft that has required a major retrofit because of thermal management issues.
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Old 11th Sep 2023, 08:38
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https://www.defensenews.com/global/e...gcap-warplane/

UK, Italy, Japan companies eye novel sensor mix for GCAP warplane

ROME — As the trinational Global Combat Air Program fighter program accelerates, partners Japan, Italy and the U.K. are planning to define the sensor hardware to go onboard the jet by mid-2025 and form a new industrial joint venture to divide up work share, a senior official has told Defense News.…

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Old 12th Sep 2023, 12:43
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📢 BREAKING: UK, Japan, and Italy's defence industry leaders have reached a trilateral Collaboration Agreement for the Global Combat Air Programme aiming to deliver the next-gen combat aircraft by 2035. Also, here's a new image.



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Old 12th Sep 2023, 12:45
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Those air intakes remind me of the F-105….



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Old 12th Sep 2023, 13:12
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Originally Posted by ORAC
📢 BREAKING: UK, Japan, and Italy's defence industry leaders have reached a trilateral Collaboration Agreement for the Global Combat Air Programme aiming to deliver the next-gen combat aircraft by 2035. Also, here's a new image.


​​​​​​ Great news as far as I am concerned. Now let's see how it progresses.
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Old 12th Sep 2023, 13:17
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
lots of technology demonstrator stuff but I doubt we'll see a real aircarft......................
Well I don't agree with you about that. And hopefully this will re establish a European fighter jet capability which was badly affected by the F35 programme.
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Old 12th Sep 2023, 19:48
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Originally Posted by Buster15
Well I don't agree with you about that. And hopefully this will re establish a European fighter jet capability which was badly affected by the F35 programme.
Typhoon, Rafale and Grippen totally escape you did they?

And the UK is still European, and a vital and key part of F-35 conception, selection, design and production.
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Old 12th Sep 2023, 19:54
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
Typhoon, Rafale and Grippen totally escape you did they?

And the UK is still European, and a vital and key part of F-35 conception, selection, design and production.
No of course not. And no need to be so caustic was there. But Typhoon, Rafale and Gripen are not 5th generation. And F35 is outselling these European fighter jets in Europe as well as the rest of the world. And yes of course I am aware that the UK is involved in F35. But as a supplier.
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Old 12th Sep 2023, 19:55
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Originally Posted by Buster15
No of course not. And no need to be so caustic was there. But Typhoon, Rafale and Gripen are not 5th generation. And F35 is outselling these European fighter jets in Europe as well as the rest of the world. And yes of course I am aware that the UK is involved in F35. But as a supplier.
NOT as a supplier, as a Tier One partner. Fully involved in selecting suppliers.
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Old 12th Sep 2023, 20:37
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
NOT as a supplier, as a Tier One partner. Fully involved in selecting suppliers.
​​​​​​Hair splitting really. What percentage of each aircraft is the UK/BAE contribution. Is it 15% on average.
But if you think that European industry has not been adversely affected by F35, up to you. But the 2 6th generation European programmes might disagree.
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Old 12th Sep 2023, 23:30
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Originally Posted by pr00ne
NOT as a supplier, as a Tier One partner. Fully involved in selecting suppliers.
and yet they still cant get meteor integrated in the aircraft. Tier one partner is just a supplier. Italy has a much greater footprint in the F-35 than the UK
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 01:50
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Why are the intakes angled inwards so sharply?
RCS?
Or is there some sort of airflow, vortex benefit?
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 04:29
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Originally Posted by rattman
and yet they still cant get meteor integrated in the aircraft. Tier one partner is just a supplier. Italy has a much greater footprint in the F-35 than the UK
Yeah but no....the Italians certainly disagree with you rattman. Best estimates on workshare are about 15% Vs 4% respectively, and as mentioned above - tier one does not equal supplier. As an example, full participation in OT&E which is rather vital for combat air.

In November, deals were awarded to repair 65 of a possible 774 repairable items on the aircraft for the period 2021-2015, with 48 going to the UK, 14 to the Netherlands and three to Australia, making up eight percent of the total items to repair.


"Small Italian firms were excluded because the competition favored large companies," said Crosetto.


As it won the lion's share of contracts, the UK ministry of defense said in November that its F-35 maintenance site in Wales would consequently become "a global repair hub providing maintenance, repair, overhaul and upgrade services for F-35 avionic and aircraft components."
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017...oken-promises/

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Old 13th Sep 2023, 07:24
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Why are the intakes angled inwards so sharply?
RCS?
Or is there some sort of airflow, vortex benefit?
https://aviation.stackexchange.com/q...rchief-intakes

https://www.criticalpast.com/video/6...fin-air-intake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divert...personic_inlet
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 08:44
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Originally Posted by rattman
and yet they still cant get meteor integrated in the aircraft. Tier one partner is just a supplier. Italy has a much greater footprint in the F-35 than the UK
The F-35B lift fan and thrust vectoring system is designed and built in the UK by Rolls-Royce. Its VSTOL control system was developed from the UK's VAAC Harrier programme. Every F-35 is fitted with a Martin Baker ejection seat. Sounds like rather more than 'just a supplier' to me.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 10:28
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When it comes to designing a 6th Gen CTOL FJ expertise in designing the lift fan for a STOVL engine isn’t exactly top of the essential criteria.

Which is why RR is working away with MHI on a new engine including things such as E2SG, Leonardo on a next generation radar - without US partnership etc.

I think there is a general feeling in both Europe, Japan and elsewhere that we have lost our own expertise and become too dependent on US technology.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 11:05
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Wariness of the US can be summed up in two lots of four letters ... ITAR & pork.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 12:39
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Originally Posted by rattman
and yet they still cant get meteor integrated in the aircraft. Tier one partner is just a supplier. Italy has a much greater footprint in the F-35 than the UK
Wrong!

Tier one is much more than a mere supplier, and it started long before the F-35 was chosen as the JSF.
Just because the UK MoD won’t fund Meteor integration is nothing to do with the deep UK involvement in the F-35.
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Old 13th Sep 2023, 13:18
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I understood Italy (and assuming it gets FMS approval Greece) also want to integrate Meteor, and the slippage is due to changes in the software upgrade programme - am I wrong?
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