Ukraine Crisis 2014
Ukraine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
An entity (country / nation / call it what you will) that can be identifed as Ukraine, with a Ukrainian people has been in existance since 882.
The fact that it only most recently achieved its independence in 1991 is frankly neither here nor there. You can say the same for Russia and any other post-Soviet state.
Are you saying they are all fair game for invasion by who pleases to do so?
I refer you to my comment about confusing 'country' and 'state'.
An entity (country / nation / call it what you will) that can be identifed as Ukraine, with a Ukrainian people has been in existance since 882.
The fact that it only most recently achieved its independence in 1991 is frankly neither here nor there. You can say the same for Russia and any other post-Soviet state.
Are you saying they are all fair game for invasion by who pleases to do so?
It doesn't have its own Parliment, Currency or Prime Minister, it cannot
enter into treaties on its own.
enter into treaties on its own.
Except that his legitimacy as the leader was put in doubt by his unconstitutional changes to the UKR Constitution, reversal of the EU cooperation legislation, and then finally ordering the Police to use disproportionatly lethal force against peaceful protestors (and, no, it wasn't self defence). And then there's the evidence of his skimming the Public Purse when in office
Govts changing legislation...............happens all the time in every country
Unconstitutional Changes to Constitution.............you are saying Unconstitutional but sorry can I see the legals involved
Reversal of EU Cooperation legislation..........again Govts change legislation or interpret it to suit themselves, Obama on US constitution, UK Attorney General in saying Iraq war is ok, UK Govt in stating GCHQ recording everybody is ok
Police using Lethal force............again happens all the time across EU as police are allowed use Lethal force, remember in UK not a single policeman has been jailed for shooting someone
Evidence of skimming public purse............in which case produce the evidence that stands up in court, of course the Billionaire now in control of Ukraine will provide all the data, like the Interim President who destroyed all those records in 2005 as head of security.
An entity (country / nation / call it what you will) that can be identifed as Ukraine, with a Ukrainian people has been in existance since 882.
The fact that it only most recently achieved its independence in 1991 is frankly neither here nor there. You can say the same for Russia and any other post-Soviet state.
Are you saying they are all fair game for invasion by who pleases to do so?
The fact that it only most recently achieved its independence in 1991 is frankly neither here nor there. You can say the same for Russia and any other post-Soviet state.
Are you saying they are all fair game for invasion by who pleases to do so?
After all US State Department on record about plotting next Ukranian President and who they wished to have.
Govts changing legislation...............happens all the time in every
country
Unconstitutional Changes to Constitution.............you are saying
Unconstitutional but sorry can I see the legals involved
Reversal of EU
Cooperation legislation..........again Govts change legislation or interpret it
to suit themselves, Obama on US constitution, UK Attorney General in saying Iraq
war is ok, UK Govt in stating GCHQ recording everybody is ok
Police using
Lethal force............again happens all the time across EU as police are
allowed use Lethal force, remember in UK not a single policeman has been jailed
for shooting someone
Evidence of skimming public purse............in
which case produce the evidence that stands up in court, of course the
Billionaire now in control of Ukraine will provide all the data, like the
Interim President who destroyed all those records in 2005 as head of
security.
Russian military rolling into former Soviet states as Putin looks to reassert Russia's 'sphere of influence' (read, neo-imperialism) in the face of these now sovereign countries seeking greater ties with Europe/NATO and the West, as is their right to do so....happens all the time.
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Apparently there is a 'massive build-up' of Russian military hardware taking place on the Russian-Crimean border...a giant pincer movement perhaps, with the exercising forces on Ukraine's Northern border meeting the forces thrusting North from Crimea?
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Apparently there is a 'massive build-up' of Russian military hardware taking place on the Russian-Crimean border...a giant pincer movement perhaps, with the exercising forces on Ukraine's Northern border meeting the forces thrusting North from Crimea?
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That's exactly my point, are they about to seize all of Eastern Ukraine, as many world leaders are terrified of happening!
Of course, all of this unpleasentness could have been avoided if, after independence in 1991, Ukraine had taken a leaf out of Russia's book and how that country dealt with the populations of Konigsberg and the Kuril Islands.
Rather than pander to the rights of minorities, as Ukraine has had to do in Crimea, just expel them all and repopulate with your own kind. No need then to worry about future generations wanting to reunify with their former homelands.
Rather than pander to the rights of minorities, as Ukraine has had to do in Crimea, just expel them all and repopulate with your own kind. No need then to worry about future generations wanting to reunify with their former homelands.
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My point is Russia is not alone and does have the support of others.
Well done to Russia and Putin. They have done the right thing here.
He really is a brilliant leader, likely the best in the world today.
Well done to Russia and Putin. They have done the right thing here.
He really is a brilliant leader, likely the best in the world today.
My point is Russia is not alone and does have the support of others.
China - that great champion of democracy and human rights. Expect to hear offers of support through from Damascus and Tehran any day now.
Well done to Russia and Putin. They have done the right thing here.
He
really is a brilliant leader, likely the best in the world today.
He
really is a brilliant leader, likely the best in the world today.
Last edited by melmothtw; 3rd Mar 2014 at 15:00.
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Russia is securing what was once theirs, that's all and since crimea is of highest military importance this is fully understandable.
I'll 2nd RR on Putin. He runs circles around the rest of the clowns in his sleep and he protects his country as any proper leader should.
__________________
On February 4th, 2013, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, addressed the Duma, (Russian Parliament), and gave a speech about the tensions with minorities in Russia:
"In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Shari'ya Law, then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law. Russia does not need minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of most minorities. When this honorable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the national interest first, observing that the minorities are not Russians.”
The politicians in the Duma gave Putin a standing ovation for five minutes!
I'll 2nd RR on Putin. He runs circles around the rest of the clowns in his sleep and he protects his country as any proper leader should.
__________________
On February 4th, 2013, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, addressed the Duma, (Russian Parliament), and gave a speech about the tensions with minorities in Russia:
"In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Shari'ya Law, then we advise them to go to those places where that's the state law. Russia does not need minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell 'discrimination'. We better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation. The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of most minorities. When this honorable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the national interest first, observing that the minorities are not Russians.”
The politicians in the Duma gave Putin a standing ovation for five minutes!
From Reuters, 3rd March;
Russia gives Ukrainian forces in Crimea ultimatum to surrender - Interfax | Reuters
JAS
Russia's Black Sea Fleet has told Ukrainian forces in Crimea to surrender by 5 a.m. (0300 GMT) on Tuesday or face a military assault, Interfax news agency quoted a source in the Ukrainian Defence Ministry as saying.
JAS
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Latest Ukraine development..
Ukrainian Forces in Crimean Peninsular Face 03:00 Hrs GMT Deadline to Surrender or face Russian Storm.
Russian Forces will storm the Ukranian Bases.. Once the shooting starts who knows where it will end!
Ukrainian Forces in Crimean Peninsular Face 03:00 Hrs GMT Deadline to Surrender or face Russian Storm.
Russian Forces will storm the Ukranian Bases.. Once the shooting starts who knows where it will end!
democracy and human rights.
As for Putin, I'm with Ronnie - he's proving to be a very shrewd leader and I'm not sure there are any western leaders who come close right now.
Ah. Democracy and human rights. We're doing a great job with those 2 systems aren't we! Alternative forms of governance are available and just as valid.