Ukraine Crisis 2014
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Lesson to all the conflict spots of the world:
Whatever you might have previously thought about settling your differences in exchange for guarantees of international protection, just look at how Ukraine has been rewarded for turning nuclear swords into ploughshares.
As an Irishman, I'm just glad we got our treaty ports back in 1938...
As for sending the air armadas to the Crimea, at least start by blockading their access to Instagram, denying the aggressors their selfies.
Whatever you might have previously thought about settling your differences in exchange for guarantees of international protection, just look at how Ukraine has been rewarded for turning nuclear swords into ploughshares.
As an Irishman, I'm just glad we got our treaty ports back in 1938...
As for sending the air armadas to the Crimea, at least start by blockading their access to Instagram, denying the aggressors their selfies.
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just look at how Ukraine has been rewarded for turning nuclear swords into ploughshares.
.Which is bad, as I have always been a significant supporter of the alliance and reasonably understanding of all the issues they have to deal with.
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RH
I think we are a bit further up the scale than the Ukraine.
Apart from having one hell of a lot of US Military technology,
we have Pine Gap and a couple of others that the US needs.
Plus we are a safe port with lots of harbours that will take US warships.
And in the not to distant future we'll have more US troops and more US aircraft than ever.
I think we are a bit further up the scale than the Ukraine.
Apart from having one hell of a lot of US Military technology,
we have Pine Gap and a couple of others that the US needs.
Plus we are a safe port with lots of harbours that will take US warships.
And in the not to distant future we'll have more US troops and more US aircraft than ever.
Racedo, you're confusing 'state' and 'country'. Ukraine was not a state before the break-up of the Soviet Union (neither was Russia), but it definitely was a country (ask yourself, is England a country?).
As for the West carving up Serbia, utter tosh. It was Tito who made Kosovo and Vojvodina into autonomous republics within Yugoslavia, and that's how they would have remained had not Milosovic embarked on his nationalist (actually neo-colonial is probably a better term) land grab of Serbia's neighbours. The loss of Kosovo was on his head, not the West's.
As for the West carving up Serbia, utter tosh. It was Tito who made Kosovo and Vojvodina into autonomous republics within Yugoslavia, and that's how they would have remained had not Milosovic embarked on his nationalist (actually neo-colonial is probably a better term) land grab of Serbia's neighbours. The loss of Kosovo was on his head, not the West's.
Whatever you might have previously thought about settling your differences in exchange for guarantees of international protection, just look at how Ukraine has been rewarded for turning nuclear swords into ploughshares.
Look at it another way - we stood by while the democratically elected President of Ukraine was overthrown by minority mob power. Russia have now justifiably intervened to shore up the democratically elected President...
TrimStab, no doubt you feel that the protesters who overthrew Caeusescu (the internationally recognised government of Romania) were just a mob, and the students in Tianammen Square were a mob who had what was coming to them.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Look at it another way - we stood by while the democratically elected President of Ukraine was overthrown by minority mob power. Russia have now justifiably intervened to shore up the democratically elected President...
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I think we are a bit further up the scale than the Ukraine.
They could easily stop this if they showed some back bone and was prepared to put it all on the line. But no, huff puff and on it goes.
I guess its easy utilising all that hardware against country's who have no hope of winning.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Mikheil Saakashvili: Lessons From the Putin Wars
Georgia's former president, who has seen first-hand the sort of trouble the Kremlin is causing in Ukraine, on what to do about Moscow's threat.
....."Nobody knows quite what to do here, and it's really messy," Mr. Saakashvili says, "and Putin knows exactly what to do." The Georgian has never hidden his contempt for the Russian leader, but his reading of Mr. Putin has been validated daily as the drama has played out. "What does he want here? Chaos," Mr. Saakashvili says. "He has good chances here this time to really chop up Ukraine. It's going toward big-scale conflict. Big, big internal conflict. He'll stir up trouble in some of the Ukrainian regions. It's a very crucial moment. Russia will try to Balkanize Ukraine."........
In a 2005 speech, Mr. Putin said "the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century" and "a genuine tragedy" that "tens of millions of our fellow citizens and countrymen found themselves beyond the fringes of Russian territory." With its 46 million people and the seat of ancient Kiev Rus, Ukraine was the most painful loss for the Russian imperium. In a private conversation with George W. Bush in 2008, Mr. Putin averred that Ukraine wasn't a real state. "Putin never just says things," says Mr. Saakashvili, who met with him often before the 2008 war. "Ukraine is a 'territory' to him and a territory needs to be divided. The problem with Putin is not just that he's a revisionist. He's revanchist. That's why it's a clash of interests. He wants it back."...........
Based on Georgia's experience, Mr. Saakashvili believes that Russia will try to incite a clash in Crimea and then offer its services to restore order. He doesn't believe Russia will provoke a direct military clash with Ukraine's still-formidable military, which wouldn't be popular in Russia itself. "It's not Georgia," he says. "Putin wants to be at the same time a peacemaker and a troublemaker," he says. "He did it quite well in Syria."............
The 2008 Russian invasion of Georgia and subsequent occupation of parts of it meant that the country had to shelve its EU and NATO ambitions for as long as Russia remains a hostile power. After his election, President Obama launched a "reset" in relations with Russia to smooth over the tensions from the Georgian war. The new president wouldn't take calls from Misha, as everyone informally calls Mr. Saakashvilli. "It took me three years to get to the Oval Office," he says. "Not that I enjoyed these tours to Washington, but it sent the wrong signal to the Russians." This time, he says, the U.S. should take a firmer line with Russia, and warn Mr. Putin to stay out of Ukraine. An invitation to Russia to work together on Ukraine—as extended by European and U.S. officials this week—only reinforces the impression of spoils on the table to be divided. "That's totally misunderstood by Putin," he says..........
Georgia's former president, who has seen first-hand the sort of trouble the Kremlin is causing in Ukraine, on what to do about Moscow's threat.
....."Nobody knows quite what to do here, and it's really messy," Mr. Saakashvili says, "and Putin knows exactly what to do." The Georgian has never hidden his contempt for the Russian leader, but his reading of Mr. Putin has been validated daily as the drama has played out. "What does he want here? Chaos," Mr. Saakashvili says. "He has good chances here this time to really chop up Ukraine. It's going toward big-scale conflict. Big, big internal conflict. He'll stir up trouble in some of the Ukrainian regions. It's a very crucial moment. Russia will try to Balkanize Ukraine."........
In a 2005 speech, Mr. Putin said "the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century" and "a genuine tragedy" that "tens of millions of our fellow citizens and countrymen found themselves beyond the fringes of Russian territory." With its 46 million people and the seat of ancient Kiev Rus, Ukraine was the most painful loss for the Russian imperium. In a private conversation with George W. Bush in 2008, Mr. Putin averred that Ukraine wasn't a real state. "Putin never just says things," says Mr. Saakashvili, who met with him often before the 2008 war. "Ukraine is a 'territory' to him and a territory needs to be divided. The problem with Putin is not just that he's a revisionist. He's revanchist. That's why it's a clash of interests. He wants it back."...........
Based on Georgia's experience, Mr. Saakashvili believes that Russia will try to incite a clash in Crimea and then offer its services to restore order. He doesn't believe Russia will provoke a direct military clash with Ukraine's still-formidable military, which wouldn't be popular in Russia itself. "It's not Georgia," he says. "Putin wants to be at the same time a peacemaker and a troublemaker," he says. "He did it quite well in Syria."............
The 2008 Russian invasion of Georgia and subsequent occupation of parts of it meant that the country had to shelve its EU and NATO ambitions for as long as Russia remains a hostile power. After his election, President Obama launched a "reset" in relations with Russia to smooth over the tensions from the Georgian war. The new president wouldn't take calls from Misha, as everyone informally calls Mr. Saakashvilli. "It took me three years to get to the Oval Office," he says. "Not that I enjoyed these tours to Washington, but it sent the wrong signal to the Russians." This time, he says, the U.S. should take a firmer line with Russia, and warn Mr. Putin to stay out of Ukraine. An invitation to Russia to work together on Ukraine—as extended by European and U.S. officials this week—only reinforces the impression of spoils on the table to be divided. "That's totally misunderstood by Putin," he says..........
Yes, and all the talk on here that Russia is really just upholding democracy in Ukraine is contemptible. It wasn't that long ago that Putin had the then-leader of the oppostion (to his power in the region) poisoned with dioxins.
Tells you all you need to know about Putin's views towards democracy and Ukraine.
Tells you all you need to know about Putin's views towards democracy and Ukraine.
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Its obviously not that serious....
Bill Turnbull on BBC News has just started the bulletin..."and now our main story this morning. Oscar Pistorius has just arrived at the courtroom at the start of his trial....."
And they deny dumbing down!
Bill Turnbull on BBC News has just started the bulletin..."and now our main story this morning. Oscar Pistorius has just arrived at the courtroom at the start of his trial....."
And they deny dumbing down!
On the other hand, they have given the Crimea the ultimate accolade - they sent John Simpson there! Yesterday they were reporting his progress through various borders as though he was some invading force of his own...
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BBC News seem more interested in the Oscars and that South African who shot his girlfriend than in a crisis situation that could change the lives of millions of people as well as wiping out the lives of many others. When will they ever get a grip on what really matters?
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Skua,
I know the old one about the trouble starting when Kate Adie is around. But she has retired from front line reporting.
The modern equivalent is if Orla Guerin turns up in Ukraine we are all in the S
I know the old one about the trouble starting when Kate Adie is around. But she has retired from front line reporting.
The modern equivalent is if Orla Guerin turns up in Ukraine we are all in the S
TrimStab, no doubt you feel that the protesters who overthrew Caeusescu (the internationally recognised government of Romania) were just a mob, and the students in Tianammen Square were a mob who had what was coming to them.
Racedo, you're confusing 'state' and 'country'. Ukraine was not a state before the break-up of the Soviet Union (neither was Russia), but it definitely was a country (ask yourself, is England a country?).
Ukraine as currently exists only came about 50 years.
And yet Russia is one the most vehement proclaimers of the principle that what goes on inside a state is a their own affair and not subject to outside interference....
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ORAC, pls don't confuse Syria and Ukraine - we've got too many Russian people and fellow citizens in Crimea, let alone our military and navy bases, we can't allow them to suffer from nazis that have come to power these days. Read about their idol Stepan Bandera Stepan Bandera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and you'll be horrified.
I know it's just a big political game, but all this is very sad. No one wants a war between our brotherly people.
I know it's just a big political game, but all this is very sad. No one wants a war between our brotherly people.
Except that his legitimacy as the leader was put in doubt by his unconstitutional changes to the UKR Constitution, reversal of the EU cooperation legislation, and then finally ordering the Police to use disproportionatly lethal force against peaceful protestors (and, no, it wasn't self defence). And then there's the evidence of his skimming the Public Purse when in office