Ukraine Crisis 2014
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Where did you used to live then?
Where t3452 or whatever, I'm curious?
Media and politicos have gone into a freackin frenzy about this today, but I don't really know why, t'was always obvious this sort of thing was on the cards (just that no one in our Government thought he had the balls).
No-one gives a stuff about the Ukraine in our country anyway (including me-sorry but its true), be honest,the average UK joe is war weary and longs for some peace = who can blame them?
Putin/Russia, crack on because you are simply going to any way.
Our politicos, keep us well out (see if you can get that right).
ps if we upset Putin with sanctions etc as Hague is bigging up now on the radio, wont he then simply turn our gas as a reply.
Media and politicos have gone into a freackin frenzy about this today, but I don't really know why, t'was always obvious this sort of thing was on the cards (just that no one in our Government thought he had the balls).
No-one gives a stuff about the Ukraine in our country anyway (including me-sorry but its true), be honest,the average UK joe is war weary and longs for some peace = who can blame them?
Putin/Russia, crack on because you are simply going to any way.
Our politicos, keep us well out (see if you can get that right).
ps if we upset Putin with sanctions etc as Hague is bigging up now on the radio, wont he then simply turn our gas as a reply.
Last edited by Hangarshuffle; 3rd Mar 2014 at 15:41.
Russia is securing what was once theirs, that's all and since crimea is of highest military importance this is fully understandable.
So Russia has no objection if Germany decides to take back what was once theirs - Kalingrad, and Japan what was once theirs - Kuril Islands (not to mention the parts of Georgia it effectively seized in 2008)?
Ah. Democracy and human rights. We're doing a great job with those 2 systems aren't we! Alternative forms of governance are available and just as valid.
As for Putin, I'm with Ronnie - he's proving to be a very shrewd leader and I'm not sure there are any western leaders who come close right now.
Hello Roland, what did I tell you about taking your meds?
So Russia has no objection if Germany decides to take back what was once theirs - Kalingrad, and Japan what was once theirs - Kuril Islands (not to mention the parts of Georgia it effectively seized in 2008)?
Ah. Democracy and human rights. We're doing a great job with those 2 systems aren't we! Alternative forms of governance are available and just as valid.
As for Putin, I'm with Ronnie - he's proving to be a very shrewd leader and I'm not sure there are any western leaders who come close right now.
Hello Roland, what did I tell you about taking your meds?
wont he then simply turn our gas as a reply
Won't stop the 'Big 6' energy companies raising their prices over the next few days/weeks and months.
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It annoys me that everyone is saying that the Crimea is welcoming this, the only people you see on the streets are the ones that probably do welcome it, those that are opposed to it are no doubt sitting at home sh*tting bricks.
Let's hope it doesn't go nuclear.
And call me old fashioned, but telling the World we will not react military is in effect giving Putin carte blanche to do what he wants
Let's hope it doesn't go nuclear.
And call me old fashioned, but telling the World we will not react military is in effect giving Putin carte blanche to do what he wants
Last edited by NutLoose; 3rd Mar 2014 at 17:06.
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This all puts me in mind of the late great RH Jim Hacker:
If it wasn't so tragic (and prescient) it would be funny
If it wasn't so tragic (and prescient) it would be funny
Originally Posted by Wrathmonk
Not sure exactly how much gas we physically get from Russia...
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Not a lot compared to Germany. I bet Cameroon is kicking himself having turned down the plan to sort our gas storage facilities out.
Europe Faces Tough Choices Over Natural gas
Europe Faces Tough Choices Over Natural gas
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FODPlod ... how true. Anyone who watches the opening credits of HIGNFY will see that Russia has the ability to turn off critical supplies to the West. As do our Arab 'friends', and an independent Scotland 
I can completely understand the Putin "Why" ... Black Sea Fleet = Suez and the Middle East and the NATO southern flank.
I can completely understand the Putin "Why" ... Black Sea Fleet = Suez and the Middle East and the NATO southern flank.
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Putin's fleet has a big issue getting to Suez.
While there's agreements for access through the Bosphorus, there was an agreement about not threatening Ukraine too, so closing it to him would be even.
Gas was a big issue a decade ago. Not so much now. The important thing is to avoid giving him credit for increasing prices, although I would expect all gas from such a relatively dodgy locale coming through a restrictive pipe to be bought on very long-term contracts.
While there's agreements for access through the Bosphorus, there was an agreement about not threatening Ukraine too, so closing it to him would be even.
Gas was a big issue a decade ago. Not so much now. The important thing is to avoid giving him credit for increasing prices, although I would expect all gas from such a relatively dodgy locale coming through a restrictive pipe to be bought on very long-term contracts.
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You obviously never bothered to look at the link above did you SASless 
It sort of puts the bull**** Gollum was spouting in Kiev today after he dropped off his flowers, I told you they would backtrack over their obligations.... Spineless muppets.
It sort of puts the bull**** Gollum was spouting in Kiev today after he dropped off his flowers, I told you they would backtrack over their obligations.... Spineless muppets.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
The Battle for Eastern Ukraine Is Underway The pro-Russian protesters are bussed-in from Russia, but Putin knows that Kiev's hold on the region is weak.
Crimea was the appetizer. The real prize for Vladimir Putin is likely to be eastern Ukraine. Without this vast region of coal mines and factories, the Kremlin strongman won't be able to achieve his goal of either controlling, destabilizing or splitting Ukraine. Otherwise the takeover of the country's southern peninsula hardly seems worth the trouble.
The Kremlin's claims about the importance of ethnic Russian identity and language are just a sideshow in the struggle here. What's going on is a pure power play. Since Mr. Putin has nuclear weapons and no apparent care for world opinion, give him an edge. But eastern Ukraine won't be as easy to snare as Crimea, and the attempt could backfire on Mr. Putin. The Russian president is a man in a hurry. Russia has taken advantage of the inevitable chaos and uncertainty in post-revolutionary Kiev. A Moscow ally abandoned the presidency and fled town, and new pro-Western leaders formed a government only last Thursday. With each passing day, they should be getting a better grip over their state. The clock is perhaps their only true friend.
The Russian move on the east, beyond Crimea, began Saturday with protests in the industrial centers of Kharkiv, Donetsk and other cities. Television showed squares filled with thousands of Ukraine's ethnic Russians. Fiery speeches were made, local government buildings were stormed and topped with Russian flags, and calls for Moscow's help were issued by little-known local politicians. Right on cue, Russia's parliament accepted Mr. Putin's request to deploy military forces in Ukraine, citing "the threat to the lives of citizens of the Russian Federation." He gave himself the green light to go beyond Crimea.
These demonstrations were peculiar in places renowned for their political apathy and ethnic indifference. Political activists put deep roots in Kiev and in western Ukraine and made the revolution on the Maidan, or Independence Square. But the east feels, paradoxically, both more Soviet and more focused on business than Kiev. Polls in the region over the years showed virtually no support to leave Ukraine and join Russia. During the weeks of unrest in Kiev, Donetsk was quiet. Then suddenly on Saturday as many as 10,000 turned out in Lenin Square, a large number by local standards. A few things in the crowd stood out. Some of the watches that people wore were set to the time in Russia's Rostov region just across the border. Some demonstrators spoke with the harder "g" sound common in Russia. By one count, at least eight buses with Russian license plates were seen near the site. And where did so many Russian flags appear from in Ukraine? In Kharkiv and other towns, the core of protesters for Russian intervention seemed to be Russian citizens..........
The emerging Kiev strategy in the east is to line up establishment support for a single Ukraine and restore control over state institutions. This may make it harder for the Kremlin to use bussed-in demonstrators or little-known political proxies as an excuse to intervene by force. Mr. Putin could still try to make do with Russia-friendly political leaders in the Yanukovych mould. But there's a danger here too for Mr. Putin. Eastern Ukrainians are, as Russian nationalists point out, close—but not the same—as Russians. If Ukraine survives his assault by the Kremlin, then their path to Europe and away from Mr. Putin's Eurasia fantasy will be clearer. And if eastern Ukrainians can live in a European democracy, then why not Russians?
Crimea was the appetizer. The real prize for Vladimir Putin is likely to be eastern Ukraine. Without this vast region of coal mines and factories, the Kremlin strongman won't be able to achieve his goal of either controlling, destabilizing or splitting Ukraine. Otherwise the takeover of the country's southern peninsula hardly seems worth the trouble.
The Kremlin's claims about the importance of ethnic Russian identity and language are just a sideshow in the struggle here. What's going on is a pure power play. Since Mr. Putin has nuclear weapons and no apparent care for world opinion, give him an edge. But eastern Ukraine won't be as easy to snare as Crimea, and the attempt could backfire on Mr. Putin. The Russian president is a man in a hurry. Russia has taken advantage of the inevitable chaos and uncertainty in post-revolutionary Kiev. A Moscow ally abandoned the presidency and fled town, and new pro-Western leaders formed a government only last Thursday. With each passing day, they should be getting a better grip over their state. The clock is perhaps their only true friend.
The Russian move on the east, beyond Crimea, began Saturday with protests in the industrial centers of Kharkiv, Donetsk and other cities. Television showed squares filled with thousands of Ukraine's ethnic Russians. Fiery speeches were made, local government buildings were stormed and topped with Russian flags, and calls for Moscow's help were issued by little-known local politicians. Right on cue, Russia's parliament accepted Mr. Putin's request to deploy military forces in Ukraine, citing "the threat to the lives of citizens of the Russian Federation." He gave himself the green light to go beyond Crimea.
These demonstrations were peculiar in places renowned for their political apathy and ethnic indifference. Political activists put deep roots in Kiev and in western Ukraine and made the revolution on the Maidan, or Independence Square. But the east feels, paradoxically, both more Soviet and more focused on business than Kiev. Polls in the region over the years showed virtually no support to leave Ukraine and join Russia. During the weeks of unrest in Kiev, Donetsk was quiet. Then suddenly on Saturday as many as 10,000 turned out in Lenin Square, a large number by local standards. A few things in the crowd stood out. Some of the watches that people wore were set to the time in Russia's Rostov region just across the border. Some demonstrators spoke with the harder "g" sound common in Russia. By one count, at least eight buses with Russian license plates were seen near the site. And where did so many Russian flags appear from in Ukraine? In Kharkiv and other towns, the core of protesters for Russian intervention seemed to be Russian citizens..........
The emerging Kiev strategy in the east is to line up establishment support for a single Ukraine and restore control over state institutions. This may make it harder for the Kremlin to use bussed-in demonstrators or little-known political proxies as an excuse to intervene by force. Mr. Putin could still try to make do with Russia-friendly political leaders in the Yanukovych mould. But there's a danger here too for Mr. Putin. Eastern Ukrainians are, as Russian nationalists point out, close—but not the same—as Russians. If Ukraine survives his assault by the Kremlin, then their path to Europe and away from Mr. Putin's Eurasia fantasy will be clearer. And if eastern Ukrainians can live in a European democracy, then why not Russians?