Ukraine Crisis 2014
Ah yes. FB, of course any war is "good" for defence expenditure. But is it good for anything else? Remember the Cold War was won by pricing the enemy out of the market. The arms race was never a good thing, apart from for the manufacturers or the size of the Forces.
Of course that's not to say we haven't gone way too far the other way now. But what do you want or expect?
Of course that's not to say we haven't gone way too far the other way now. But what do you want or expect?
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If there is another big hitter on the block we may see our elected leaders maintain a more realistic military posture and think twice before having a go at seemingly inadequate countries which just don't conform to the Western Liberal ideal.
Whether we can recover enough, or the lefty's come to that realization in time is another matter. If we do then we can thank Putin for acting to early.
I saw piccies of those trucks and they're pretty big. Looks like about 280 platoons of aid.
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I saw piccies of those trucks and they're pretty big. Looks like about 280 platoons of aid.
According to one of the BBC articles I read, it looks like the Russians have been playing silly buggers with the Red Cross.
They like to keep a clean nose.
Hi Courtney, the wars we've had since 1999 have seen defence expenditure maintained at an approximate level while the level of personnel and equipment have all taken a pasting. I'm convinced that certainly during the Blair years every time H.M. Forces were called upon to engage the Foe they shrank a bit more.
I don't know what I want really, certainly not to see anyone killed, what with the terrible time for that individual's folks each time. But that's like saying I don'y want to see anyone get wet in a deluge. As for what to expect, I think from here, taking into account a broad overview of how this World's leaders are dealing with one another I imagine anything can happen. Diane Abbot was on the Radio today wanting something done about the people stranded between a Mountain top and the rampaging army of I.S. ogres. But she's appalled at the idea of any U.K. (or anyone else's) military intervention. Still, the cease fire over Gaza looks like holding!?
FB
I don't know what I want really, certainly not to see anyone killed, what with the terrible time for that individual's folks each time. But that's like saying I don'y want to see anyone get wet in a deluge. As for what to expect, I think from here, taking into account a broad overview of how this World's leaders are dealing with one another I imagine anything can happen. Diane Abbot was on the Radio today wanting something done about the people stranded between a Mountain top and the rampaging army of I.S. ogres. But she's appalled at the idea of any U.K. (or anyone else's) military intervention. Still, the cease fire over Gaza looks like holding!?
FB
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Diane Abbot was on the Radio today wanting something done about the people stranded between a Mountain top and the rampaging army of I.S. ogres. But she's appalled at the idea of any U.K. (or anyone else's) military intervention.
500N,
I've not quoted what Mrs Abbot said but certainly reflected with searing accuracy what she said through the interview. When the host tried to corner D.A. over the issue of direct military action following an ITV poll which said 45% backed air strikes and 37% were against, she moderated only as far as to say any military action should be an international operation. This made me think, that's exactly what it would be as nearly always these days.
FB
I've not quoted what Mrs Abbot said but certainly reflected with searing accuracy what she said through the interview. When the host tried to corner D.A. over the issue of direct military action following an ITV poll which said 45% backed air strikes and 37% were against, she moderated only as far as to say any military action should be an international operation. This made me think, that's exactly what it would be as nearly always these days.
FB
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she moderated only as far as to say any military action should be an international operation.
Agree, and it seems to be quite a few countries (US, UK, Aus, France - so far).
She forgets one thing re this Op.
The US were invited by the Iraqi Gov't to do what they did / are doing so no UN involvement needed.
In fact, I reckon by the time they got organized, it would be over !
The US were invited by the Iraqi Gov't to do what they did / are doing so no UN involvement needed.
In fact, I reckon by the time they got organized, it would be over !
In fact, I reckon by the time they got organized, it would be over !
Only problem is the refugees are the ones that would over of course.
FB
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Ukraine crisis: Russian 'aid' convoy heads straight for rebels in Luhansk as fears intensify of 'direct invasion'
A Russian convoy carrying "humanitarian aid" has turned away from its route towards a confrontation with government officials at the Ukrainian border - and is now heading straight for rebel-held areas. The huge deployment of around 260 trucks towards eastern Ukraine has sparked international fears of a Trojan Horse-style invasion, as last night the Ukrainian president accused Moscow of potentially planning a "direct invasion of Ukrainian territory under the guise of delivering humanitarian aid".
Moscow said that the column of white spray-painted Kamaz trucks, which left a military depot outside the Russian capital early on Tuesday morning, was full of vital supplies ranging from baby food to sleeping bags. It had been parked since late on Tuesday at an army base in the southern city of Voronezh while Russian and Ukrainian diplomats argued over how the aid might be received.
By taking the road south towards the rebel-held city of Luhansk, the convoy now appears intent on ignoring a tentative agreement which would have seen it cross the government-controlled border at Kharkiv, where it could be inspected by the international Red Cross. The border at Luhansk is in the heart of the disputed region and largely rebel-held. Speaking on Tuesday, even the pro-Russian separatist leader Andrei Purgin said he did not expect the aid to be sent there directly......
A Russian convoy carrying "humanitarian aid" has turned away from its route towards a confrontation with government officials at the Ukrainian border - and is now heading straight for rebel-held areas. The huge deployment of around 260 trucks towards eastern Ukraine has sparked international fears of a Trojan Horse-style invasion, as last night the Ukrainian president accused Moscow of potentially planning a "direct invasion of Ukrainian territory under the guise of delivering humanitarian aid".
Moscow said that the column of white spray-painted Kamaz trucks, which left a military depot outside the Russian capital early on Tuesday morning, was full of vital supplies ranging from baby food to sleeping bags. It had been parked since late on Tuesday at an army base in the southern city of Voronezh while Russian and Ukrainian diplomats argued over how the aid might be received.
By taking the road south towards the rebel-held city of Luhansk, the convoy now appears intent on ignoring a tentative agreement which would have seen it cross the government-controlled border at Kharkiv, where it could be inspected by the international Red Cross. The border at Luhansk is in the heart of the disputed region and largely rebel-held. Speaking on Tuesday, even the pro-Russian separatist leader Andrei Purgin said he did not expect the aid to be sent there directly......
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You have to ask why drive an aid column 800Km when they could have sourced the supplies etc closer to the border, it's simply Putin making a show of it all and milking it for all it is worth.. That's like sending a relief column from Edinburgh to Southampton passing everything in between.
Mind you 260 trucks carrying 20 a go will evacuate most of his fighters if needed
.
Mind you 260 trucks carrying 20 a go will evacuate most of his fighters if needed
.
Last edited by NutLoose; 14th Aug 2014 at 10:47.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Crossing the Rubicon
Russian armoured vehicles and military trucks cross border into Ukraine
A column of armoured vehicles and military trucks crossed the border from Russia into Ukraine on Thursday night, in the first confirmed sighting of such an incident by Western journalists.
A separate, larger convoy of around 270 Russian trucks, which Moscow claims is carrying aid, rumbled to a halt just short of the border on Thursday night, while in east Ukraine, shells hit the centre of rebel-held Donetsk for the first time.
The Telegraph witnessed a column of vehicles including both armoured personal carriers and soft-skinned lorries crossing into Ukraine at an obscure border crossing near the Russian town of Donetsk shortly before 10pm local time.
The Ukrainian and Western governments have long accused Russia of filtering arms and men across the border to fuel the separatist insurgency in Ukraine's Donetsk and Luhansk regions, but such an incident has never before been witnessed by Western journalists.
The convoy, which included at least 23 vehicles, appeared to be waiting until sunset near a refugee camp just outside Donetsk, before moving towards the crossing without turning off headlights or making any other attempt to conceal itself.
While it was not immediately clear whether all of that convoy crossed the border, The Telegraph did see a substantial number of vehicles pass through check point manned by gunmen after shadowing the convoy down narrow country lanes near the frontier.
While the force did not seem to be a substantial invasion force, it confirms that military supplies are moving across the border. While the APCs carried no visible markings the fuel tankers and soft-skinned trucks in the convoy bore black Russian military number plates.........
A column of armoured vehicles and military trucks crossed the border from Russia into Ukraine on Thursday night, in the first confirmed sighting of such an incident by Western journalists.
A separate, larger convoy of around 270 Russian trucks, which Moscow claims is carrying aid, rumbled to a halt just short of the border on Thursday night, while in east Ukraine, shells hit the centre of rebel-held Donetsk for the first time.
The Telegraph witnessed a column of vehicles including both armoured personal carriers and soft-skinned lorries crossing into Ukraine at an obscure border crossing near the Russian town of Donetsk shortly before 10pm local time.
The Ukrainian and Western governments have long accused Russia of filtering arms and men across the border to fuel the separatist insurgency in Ukraine's Donetsk and Luhansk regions, but such an incident has never before been witnessed by Western journalists.
The convoy, which included at least 23 vehicles, appeared to be waiting until sunset near a refugee camp just outside Donetsk, before moving towards the crossing without turning off headlights or making any other attempt to conceal itself.
While it was not immediately clear whether all of that convoy crossed the border, The Telegraph did see a substantial number of vehicles pass through check point manned by gunmen after shadowing the convoy down narrow country lanes near the frontier.
While the force did not seem to be a substantial invasion force, it confirms that military supplies are moving across the border. While the APCs carried no visible markings the fuel tankers and soft-skinned trucks in the convoy bore black Russian military number plates.........
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Putin should have taken a leaf out this book on delivering aid
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Apparently 23 Armoured personnel carriers each normally carrying seven troops
As for Putin have a bad day, he's played it cool so far, so its not over tilll the fat lady sings. Everything is smoke and mirrors.
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Sending next to empty aid trucks just makes them look a bunch of idiots in the press, I could see it having had some credibility if they were stacked to the tailgate, or at least at the back to give the appearance of having a full load, it makes you wonder if there was a plan to utilise the empty space for other means... Either way you look at it, its not putting them in a good light. I see the biggest oil company has approached the Government after Billions to tied it over, so the sanctions do appear to be working.
Russian oil company pleas for debt relief - Story - World - 3 News
Russian oil company pleas for debt relief - Story - World - 3 News