Ukraine Crisis 2014
I really hope we see a total collapse of the American Empire in the coming years.
Very surprised to find one of them lurking on here though.
As Winston so famously said "a fanatic is someone who can't change their mind, and won't change the subject".
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I really hope we see a total collapse of the American Empire in the coming years.
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Location: Horsham, England, UK. ---o--O--o---
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Maybe RR is a Soviet "Sleeper" who never got the call to activate! 
Mike or is it Michal from Norfolk?
Mike or is it Michal from Norfolk?
You have to have really weird preferences if you really prefer the way of living and being governed in Russia to that of Western Europe or the US, even considering all shortfalls of our Western governments.
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He is now targeting Lithuania and those that refused to serve in the Soviet Military after Lithuania declared independence 25 years ago!
BBC News - Lithuania says Russia reopens Soviet conscript cases
The bloke is barking.
BBC News - Lithuania says Russia reopens Soviet conscript cases
The bloke is barking.
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Its really hard to see what his endgame actually is. Do we go all out and give him a new cold war? would that be playing into his hands, and give him the excuse to do a total arms build up sort of thing.
Or just ignore and do incremental escalation? Where is the chocolate wheel.
What I do know though, there is a country doing its best to behave and getting screwed over by Russia and we won't give them so much as bullets!
Or just ignore and do incremental escalation? Where is the chocolate wheel.
What I do know though, there is a country doing its best to behave and getting screwed over by Russia and we won't give them so much as bullets!
I have a good friend who was born in northern Syria. His family came here to Texas when he was young. Before he was an adult, he was able to occasionally visit his relatives in Syria without fear/concern.
As soon as he reached the age of majority, he was in trouble with Syrian authorities ... even though he was a US naturalized citizen long since.
He is/was required to either serve in the Syrian armed forces, or pay scutage. He has, as a result, never gone back to Syria. (EDIT: of course, given the current state of play and the fact that he and his family are Syrian Orthodox Christians, there is another powerful incentive not to go back until the ISIS/ISIL threat reduces.)
I wonder if a similar issue is one of the things behind the Russian moves in the Baltic States, particularly among the "ethnic Russians" "Russian speakers" of those three nation states.
As soon as he reached the age of majority, he was in trouble with Syrian authorities ... even though he was a US naturalized citizen long since.
He is/was required to either serve in the Syrian armed forces, or pay scutage. He has, as a result, never gone back to Syria. (EDIT: of course, given the current state of play and the fact that he and his family are Syrian Orthodox Christians, there is another powerful incentive not to go back until the ISIS/ISIL threat reduces.)
I wonder if a similar issue is one of the things behind the Russian moves in the Baltic States, particularly among the "ethnic Russians" "Russian speakers" of those three nation states.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 9th Sep 2014 at 16:02.
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Apparently the Pom's are starting to take the piss out of Putin and issuing instructions how to spot their own military equipment.
On a slightly more positive note, it seems the the administration in the white house might be getting the message.
I can think of some nice air assets that would make nice lethal defensive equipment.
On a slightly more positive note, it seems the the administration in the white house might be getting the message.
A senior aide of President Barack Obama today said he believes the US should consider giving Ukraine lethal, defensive military assistance to get Russia to think twice about its destabilising behaviour.
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announce new military assistance for ukraine
NATO has announced the creation of so-called trust funds. The ministers said Tuesday trust funds are now operational for logistics, cyberdefense, rehabilitation of wounded soldiers and other uses.
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They have been treating Ukrainian wounded in Germany for months
Auswärtiges Amt - Ukraine - Injured Ukrainians to be treated in Germany
GERMANY: Wounded Ukrainian soldiers treated in Germany in stable condition, says doctor
Auswärtiges Amt - Ukraine - Injured Ukrainians to be treated in Germany
GERMANY: Wounded Ukrainian soldiers treated in Germany in stable condition, says doctor
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Merkel Objection to Arms for Ukraine May Spur Backlash for Obama
(Bloomberg) -- Germany’s rejection of supplying weapons to Ukrainian forces fighting pro-Russian rebels may heighten the domestic pressure on a reluctant U.S. President Barack Obama to deliver the arms. Increasing numbers of senior military and State Department officials are joining Republican lawmakers in a push to arm Ukraine -- an option the commander-in-chief personally opposes, according to three people familiar with the dynamics in the Obama administration. They asked not to be named due to sensitivity of the matter.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who made an impassioned case against shipping lethal military support to Ukraine in a speech Saturday at the Munich Security Conference, will discuss the issue with Obama in Washington on Monday. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said he’s confident Obama will make his decision soon after the meeting. Obama’s delay in making his move until after Merkel’s visit reflects not only the gravity of the situation and the dueling arguments, but his emphasis on international alliances, his own deliberative nature and the degree to which he’s concentrated power on foreign policy in the White House.
Obama will authorize weapons deployment if Merkel signals that she will not publicly condemn individual nations from arming Ukraine, the three people said. If she opposes any unilateral supplying of weapons, Obama will explain his decision to follow her lead by citing the importance of keeping a united front against Russian President Vladimir Putin and the risk of triggering a proxy war with him, the people said.
A U.S. official who is also close to the debate declined to predict what Obama will decide after meeting with Merkel. The official, who also requested anonymity, added that Obama’s decision may prove to be one of the most important of his presidency............
Merkel’s Position
Merkel in her Saturday speech said, “The progress that Ukraine needs cannot be achieved by more weapons.” Instead, she evoked the perseverance of the U.S. and European diplomatic efforts in confronting the Soviet Union during four decades of Cold War that ended with collapse of communism. Like then, that approach needs staying power and unity, said Merkel, who grew up in communist East Germany. “The problem is that I cannot envisage any situation in which an improved equipment of the Ukrainian army leads to a situation where President Putin is so impressed that he will lose militarily,” she said, reiterating the importance of a negotiated peace without military intervention. “I have to put it in such a blunt manner.” Facing Ukraine President Petro Poroshenko in the audience, she said: “There’s no way to win this militarily -- that’s the bitter truth. The international community has to think of a different approach.”.........
Senators Disagree
Republican senators attending the conference expressed outrage at Merkel’s position. “She’s undercutting the ability of the Ukrainian people to have the best, last chance to keep their country intact,” Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina told reporters. “So can friends disagree? That’s what all this is about.”
Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee and the head of the congressional delegation in Munich, called Merkel’s position “unacceptable” and “horribly wrong.” “I know the Ukrainians; I know that they’re being slaughtered by the Russians with Russian weapons,” McCain said in an interview with German newspaper Bild-Zeitung. McCain also told TV channel ZDF that German government seems as if “it has no clue, or it doesn’t care, that people are being slaughtered in Ukraine.”........
Gen. Philip Breedlove, the top U.S. military commander in Europe, Ashton Carter, Obama’s pick to be the next U.S. defense secretary, and a list of former U.S. envoys to Ukraine and NATO are publicly supporting arming Ukraine. “I’m very much inclined in that direction,” Carter said at his confirmation hearing before McCain’s committee last week. Kerry and Vice President Joe Biden are increasingly associating with this group, termed the pessimists by the U.S. official who declined to predict what Obama will decide. The official used the term because of this group’s doubts that the U.S. and European economic and diplomatic efforts can alone deter Putin.......
This camp has concluded that Putin is determined to reverse some of what he considers NATO and European aggression against a Russia weakened by irresolute leaders before he came to power, such as Mikhail Gorbachev and Boris Yeltsin, said the official. The group also thinks Putin believes it’s the U.S. and its allies that are weak now, bled by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, facing economic disunity within the EU and indecision about how to fight Islamic extremism.
The pessimists argue that it’s important to push back hard against Putin in Ukraine and elsewhere to prevent the conflict from escalating out of control, the official said. The debate over arming Ukraine masks a much deeper analytical split about relations with Russia within the administration and NATO, he added.
The camp that the official described as the diplomats, which he said so far includes Obama, Merkel and French President Francois Hollande but few other U.S. officials outside the White House, views Putin as a bully but not a fool who would preside over an economic collapse. They believe he will ultimately respond to mounting economic pressure, perhaps coupled with a greater NATO presence in eastern Europe, the official said.
Putin’s Goal
Some U.S. military and intelligence officials assess that Putin’s current strategic objective is a land link from Russia to Crimea through Mariupol, and that a major offensive against the port city of 500,000 is inevitable. The recent push at Debaltseve, they said Saturday in Washington, appears to be simultaneously a test of the Ukrainian military and NATO’s response, a diversion from the real objective and a move to pre-position Russian-backed forces for a two-pronged assault on Mariupol from the east and north..........
(Bloomberg) -- Germany’s rejection of supplying weapons to Ukrainian forces fighting pro-Russian rebels may heighten the domestic pressure on a reluctant U.S. President Barack Obama to deliver the arms. Increasing numbers of senior military and State Department officials are joining Republican lawmakers in a push to arm Ukraine -- an option the commander-in-chief personally opposes, according to three people familiar with the dynamics in the Obama administration. They asked not to be named due to sensitivity of the matter.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who made an impassioned case against shipping lethal military support to Ukraine in a speech Saturday at the Munich Security Conference, will discuss the issue with Obama in Washington on Monday. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said he’s confident Obama will make his decision soon after the meeting. Obama’s delay in making his move until after Merkel’s visit reflects not only the gravity of the situation and the dueling arguments, but his emphasis on international alliances, his own deliberative nature and the degree to which he’s concentrated power on foreign policy in the White House.
Obama will authorize weapons deployment if Merkel signals that she will not publicly condemn individual nations from arming Ukraine, the three people said. If she opposes any unilateral supplying of weapons, Obama will explain his decision to follow her lead by citing the importance of keeping a united front against Russian President Vladimir Putin and the risk of triggering a proxy war with him, the people said.
A U.S. official who is also close to the debate declined to predict what Obama will decide after meeting with Merkel. The official, who also requested anonymity, added that Obama’s decision may prove to be one of the most important of his presidency............
Merkel’s Position
Merkel in her Saturday speech said, “The progress that Ukraine needs cannot be achieved by more weapons.” Instead, she evoked the perseverance of the U.S. and European diplomatic efforts in confronting the Soviet Union during four decades of Cold War that ended with collapse of communism. Like then, that approach needs staying power and unity, said Merkel, who grew up in communist East Germany. “The problem is that I cannot envisage any situation in which an improved equipment of the Ukrainian army leads to a situation where President Putin is so impressed that he will lose militarily,” she said, reiterating the importance of a negotiated peace without military intervention. “I have to put it in such a blunt manner.” Facing Ukraine President Petro Poroshenko in the audience, she said: “There’s no way to win this militarily -- that’s the bitter truth. The international community has to think of a different approach.”.........
Senators Disagree
Republican senators attending the conference expressed outrage at Merkel’s position. “She’s undercutting the ability of the Ukrainian people to have the best, last chance to keep their country intact,” Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina told reporters. “So can friends disagree? That’s what all this is about.”
Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee and the head of the congressional delegation in Munich, called Merkel’s position “unacceptable” and “horribly wrong.” “I know the Ukrainians; I know that they’re being slaughtered by the Russians with Russian weapons,” McCain said in an interview with German newspaper Bild-Zeitung. McCain also told TV channel ZDF that German government seems as if “it has no clue, or it doesn’t care, that people are being slaughtered in Ukraine.”........
Gen. Philip Breedlove, the top U.S. military commander in Europe, Ashton Carter, Obama’s pick to be the next U.S. defense secretary, and a list of former U.S. envoys to Ukraine and NATO are publicly supporting arming Ukraine. “I’m very much inclined in that direction,” Carter said at his confirmation hearing before McCain’s committee last week. Kerry and Vice President Joe Biden are increasingly associating with this group, termed the pessimists by the U.S. official who declined to predict what Obama will decide. The official used the term because of this group’s doubts that the U.S. and European economic and diplomatic efforts can alone deter Putin.......
This camp has concluded that Putin is determined to reverse some of what he considers NATO and European aggression against a Russia weakened by irresolute leaders before he came to power, such as Mikhail Gorbachev and Boris Yeltsin, said the official. The group also thinks Putin believes it’s the U.S. and its allies that are weak now, bled by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, facing economic disunity within the EU and indecision about how to fight Islamic extremism.
The pessimists argue that it’s important to push back hard against Putin in Ukraine and elsewhere to prevent the conflict from escalating out of control, the official said. The debate over arming Ukraine masks a much deeper analytical split about relations with Russia within the administration and NATO, he added.
The camp that the official described as the diplomats, which he said so far includes Obama, Merkel and French President Francois Hollande but few other U.S. officials outside the White House, views Putin as a bully but not a fool who would preside over an economic collapse. They believe he will ultimately respond to mounting economic pressure, perhaps coupled with a greater NATO presence in eastern Europe, the official said.
Putin’s Goal
Some U.S. military and intelligence officials assess that Putin’s current strategic objective is a land link from Russia to Crimea through Mariupol, and that a major offensive against the port city of 500,000 is inevitable. The recent push at Debaltseve, they said Saturday in Washington, appears to be simultaneously a test of the Ukrainian military and NATO’s response, a diversion from the real objective and a move to pre-position Russian-backed forces for a two-pronged assault on Mariupol from the east and north..........