Ukraine Crisis 2014
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Sad to say it, but I think the day the UK was involved in talking the Ukraine into giving up her Nuclear deterrent in return for protection was not one of our finest hours... With a reduced deterrent this would never have happened.
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it sickens me to see this violence though, being carried out by the Kiev military and many of these so called ''volunteer'' forces. Not so long ago they and the Russians would have been serving in the same military together, side by side. Now years later we have the current situation, so called progress. I think they were all better off in the days of the USSR. Bringing all the former Soviet nations back into some kind of alliance with Russia might be the best outcome for world peace. Such a shame the USSR came to end really, then we would not be seeing the current loss of life.
You are totally hatstand. The idea that it preferable for a number of countries to be held under a tyranny to preserve an arbitrary and artificial 'world order' is just plain terrible. Just how many millions should be held against their will to preserve your twisted and sick version of peace?
Bonkers.
Bonkers.
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I could say exactly the same about the EU! We don't want to be part of this but are not given a choice. How about NATO? How many people have died due to military interventions launched by NATO and EU nations? Yet we are not given a choice, we are forced to be part of this system, a system of never ending warfare, which has actually led to the current situation in Iraq. Ironically the wests actions in Afghanistan in the 1980s have led to the west being in Afghanistan now. Talk about blow back!
Also a system where the rich grow richer and poor grow poorer. We should have equality.
Here is a video of some of the great soviet achievements:-
Tribute Soviet Union Power Military (anthem) - YouTube
(With some lovely music)
Also a system where the rich grow richer and poor grow poorer. We should have equality.
Here is a video of some of the great soviet achievements:-
Tribute Soviet Union Power Military (anthem) - YouTube
(With some lovely music)
No, Ronald is absolutely right. The USSR was the fairest, democratic society ever. The KGB ran best community policing and there was no corruption or lack of social care. I can't imagine why so many people didn't want them to come and rule our little nations.
RR, can you not see?
RR, can you not see?
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And of course free winter holidays in your own holiday gulag camp
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Soviet Union National Anthem Tribute - YouTube
Equality and fairness for all. As one of the peasantry seeing the rich elite who exist in Britain now, dominate and ruin this nation so badly is simply terrible. Maybe the other side were right all along. The current system of short term capitalism based purely upon greed, more and more wealth for the rich is simply unsustainable.
I think Putin is right when he says the end of the Soviet Union was the greatest tragedy of the 20th century. At the very least they kept the west on their toes, great to have a rival to Washington. Since the end of the USSR Washington has been running amok around the globe.
Equality and fairness for all. As one of the peasantry seeing the rich elite who exist in Britain now, dominate and ruin this nation so badly is simply terrible. Maybe the other side were right all along. The current system of short term capitalism based purely upon greed, more and more wealth for the rich is simply unsustainable.
I think Putin is right when he says the end of the Soviet Union was the greatest tragedy of the 20th century. At the very least they kept the west on their toes, great to have a rival to Washington. Since the end of the USSR Washington has been running amok around the globe.
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Courtney Mil. Libya was the big change for me. I was so against Cameron and co doing that, I could see the disaster that was going to unfold. I was right! Plus the politicians lied, saying it was not about regime change when it was. Then came Syria, now their plans to remove Assad really annoyed me as I could see the outcome. Just imagine they had removed Assad, then we would be dealing with an even stronger ISIS right now! Also seeing the disaster that was Iraq. Then the west sticking its nose into Ukraine recently. These morons we call leaders cannot even run their own nations properly yet they have stick their noses into affairs all over the world that do not concern us. Most of the problems in this world can sadly be traced back to the western governments. All along there has been one voice of reason and logic, that voice is Putin. Just wish he was British and our leader! But if he can give western leaders a few sleepless nights and embarrass them, then GOOD!
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Equality and fairness for all. As one of the peasantry seeing the rich elite who exist in Britain now
Communism never works, because those in power deem themselves not equal, at least in the West if we don't like them we can vote them out...
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We have a fixed two party dictatorship really, the same in the US. Only the main parties can get a look in.
The morons who rule us now for example have in their wisdom binned most of the Tornado GR4 force leaving only 3 squadrons in service. One of those is in Afghanistan, another is preparing to go there, leaving just one squadron! The utter disdain these people show to the military, cut, cut, cut, but using them in more and more wars. I hate ISIS and am in favour of some action against them, but we have nothing left hardly. Up until the early 1990s we had a great military, most of it has been binned since then sadly. (See another good point about the USSR existing) such a ''threat'' justified us keeping larger forces for defence and likely ensured a rapid period of technological advancement with each side trying to out do the other. Maybe we could return to those years, say a nice 500 jet air force! We just need a permanent detente with them, a position of mutual respect.
These so called politicians have basically ruined the middle east.
Compared to them Putin is a genius!
The morons who rule us now for example have in their wisdom binned most of the Tornado GR4 force leaving only 3 squadrons in service. One of those is in Afghanistan, another is preparing to go there, leaving just one squadron! The utter disdain these people show to the military, cut, cut, cut, but using them in more and more wars. I hate ISIS and am in favour of some action against them, but we have nothing left hardly. Up until the early 1990s we had a great military, most of it has been binned since then sadly. (See another good point about the USSR existing) such a ''threat'' justified us keeping larger forces for defence and likely ensured a rapid period of technological advancement with each side trying to out do the other. Maybe we could return to those years, say a nice 500 jet air force! We just need a permanent detente with them, a position of mutual respect.
These so called politicians have basically ruined the middle east.
Compared to them Putin is a genius!
Last edited by Ronald Reagan; 11th Aug 2014 at 23:10.
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Sad to say it, but I think the day the UK was involved in talking the Ukraine into giving up her Nuclear deterrent in return for protection was not one of our finest hours... With a reduced deterrent this would never have happened.
Ronald, you are a laugh, two party dictator ship, evil EU and NATO. Bumbling incompetents are about all that could be said about them.
Its called democracy, and we can have as many parties as we want. We choose the ones we think will bumble though and give us the best deal. Its not pretty, but it sort of works, more than I can say about any of the other systems around.
Until about 2 years ago, you were a relatively normal poster here. What changed?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
US Senator: Standoff in Eastern Ukraine To Be Settled 'Within Another Week'
WASHINGTON — A tense standoff between Ukrainian forces and Russian-backed separatists will be over within a week — and will decide whether “all-out war” begins in Eastern Europe, says a US senator.
Florida Sen. Bill Nelson, the No. 3 Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee, leaves for a trip to Ukraine later this week, where he will huddle with leaders of that nation and “representatives” for the top US general in Europe. Nelson told reporters via a conference call that with Moscow-backed separatists occupying several eastern Ukrainian cities, including Donetsk, “I expect within the matter of another week, this is going to be decided one way or another. “Either Russia comes across the border or the Ukraine military will have prevailed,” Nelson said. If the latter occurs, “then it’s just a mop-up operation” for Ukrainian forces, he said. But if Russian President Vladimir Putin senses his surrogates’ grip on key cities is slipping and decides to invade eastern Ukraine with some or all of the 20,000 troops US officials say are massed on his side of the border, “then it’s Katie bar the door,” Nelson warned. That scenario could lead to “all-out war,” Nelson said, though he never called for direct American involvement should a shooting conflict between Russia and Ukraine begin.......
But does Nelson believe a Russia-Ukraine war is imminent? “I can’t believe Vladimir Putin would be that foolish. There was a time we thought he was coming across the border,” Nelson told reporters. “Instead, he had his ... thugs go in ... to do his work. That hasn’t work. That’s why [several] towns are surrounded by the Ukrainian military.” The veteran SASC member said all evidence in recent days about the likelihood of war breaking out is “to the contrary.” “All the events in the last 24 hours indicate they’re about to settle this with the rebels giving up,” Nelson said. “Except if that is unacceptable to the Russian president and he sends his troops across the border.”.......
280 Russian aid trucks depart for Ukraine's eastern conflict zones
KIEV, Ukraine — A vast column of trucks *that Russia said were bearing humanitarian aid embarked Tuesday on a journey toward Ukraine, Russian state television reported, although it remained unclear whether Ukraine was willing to accept the aid in the up to 280 tractor-trailers.
Ukrainian, U.S. and NATO officials have been cautious about the Russian aid offers, fearing that they could simply be a pretext to boost pro-Russian insurgents who have seized territory in eastern Ukraine. Any unilateral Russian action would be treated as invasion, Ukraine has said.
Russian state television showed white trucks packing up at dawn near Moscow and departing for the Ukrainian border. The ITAR-TASS news agency said that the trucks had departed carrying 400 tons of grain, 100 tons of sugar, 62 tons of baby food, 54 tons of medicine and medical equipment, 12,000 sleeping bags and 69 portable power generators. State television quoted truck drivers as saying that the convoy would take two to three days to reach the Ukrainian border. The distance between Naro-Fominsk, the town where the convoy departed, to the Ukrainian border is about 350 miles.
The Ukrainian government has said that it is only willing to accept aid in the form of an international effort coordinated by the Red Cross or United Nations. But the Red Cross on Monday said that although an international effort had been agreed upon in principle, many details were left to be arranged, including safety assurances for Red Cross workers in war-torn eastern Ukraine. The Red Cross refuses protection from armed guards, a policy that may complicate efforts to establish a Red Cross-headed mission in Ukraine any time soon, since rebels have at times argued among themselves about what kind of protections to offer international agencies.
A spokesman for the Red Cross office in Kiev said Tuesday that their office — which would coordinate the distribution of any aid — had not been informed by Russian authorities prior to the convoy’s departure. “There are talks now with the Ukrainian authorities to try to sort out the situation,” said Andre Loersch, the spokesman.
Ukrainian officials have said that they fear that any Russian aid convoy could be used as a pretext for a fuller military intervention from Russia, which has massed tens of thousands of troops at the border with Ukraine, according to Western officials........
The convoy departed a day after NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen warned that there was a “high probability” of a Russian military intervention in Ukraine. “We see the Russians developing the narrative and the pretext for such an operation under the guise of a humanitarian operation, and we see a military buildup that could be used to conduct such illegal military operations in Ukraine,” Rasmussen told the Reuters news agency.
WASHINGTON — A tense standoff between Ukrainian forces and Russian-backed separatists will be over within a week — and will decide whether “all-out war” begins in Eastern Europe, says a US senator.
Florida Sen. Bill Nelson, the No. 3 Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee, leaves for a trip to Ukraine later this week, where he will huddle with leaders of that nation and “representatives” for the top US general in Europe. Nelson told reporters via a conference call that with Moscow-backed separatists occupying several eastern Ukrainian cities, including Donetsk, “I expect within the matter of another week, this is going to be decided one way or another. “Either Russia comes across the border or the Ukraine military will have prevailed,” Nelson said. If the latter occurs, “then it’s just a mop-up operation” for Ukrainian forces, he said. But if Russian President Vladimir Putin senses his surrogates’ grip on key cities is slipping and decides to invade eastern Ukraine with some or all of the 20,000 troops US officials say are massed on his side of the border, “then it’s Katie bar the door,” Nelson warned. That scenario could lead to “all-out war,” Nelson said, though he never called for direct American involvement should a shooting conflict between Russia and Ukraine begin.......
But does Nelson believe a Russia-Ukraine war is imminent? “I can’t believe Vladimir Putin would be that foolish. There was a time we thought he was coming across the border,” Nelson told reporters. “Instead, he had his ... thugs go in ... to do his work. That hasn’t work. That’s why [several] towns are surrounded by the Ukrainian military.” The veteran SASC member said all evidence in recent days about the likelihood of war breaking out is “to the contrary.” “All the events in the last 24 hours indicate they’re about to settle this with the rebels giving up,” Nelson said. “Except if that is unacceptable to the Russian president and he sends his troops across the border.”.......
280 Russian aid trucks depart for Ukraine's eastern conflict zones
KIEV, Ukraine — A vast column of trucks *that Russia said were bearing humanitarian aid embarked Tuesday on a journey toward Ukraine, Russian state television reported, although it remained unclear whether Ukraine was willing to accept the aid in the up to 280 tractor-trailers.
Ukrainian, U.S. and NATO officials have been cautious about the Russian aid offers, fearing that they could simply be a pretext to boost pro-Russian insurgents who have seized territory in eastern Ukraine. Any unilateral Russian action would be treated as invasion, Ukraine has said.
Russian state television showed white trucks packing up at dawn near Moscow and departing for the Ukrainian border. The ITAR-TASS news agency said that the trucks had departed carrying 400 tons of grain, 100 tons of sugar, 62 tons of baby food, 54 tons of medicine and medical equipment, 12,000 sleeping bags and 69 portable power generators. State television quoted truck drivers as saying that the convoy would take two to three days to reach the Ukrainian border. The distance between Naro-Fominsk, the town where the convoy departed, to the Ukrainian border is about 350 miles.
The Ukrainian government has said that it is only willing to accept aid in the form of an international effort coordinated by the Red Cross or United Nations. But the Red Cross on Monday said that although an international effort had been agreed upon in principle, many details were left to be arranged, including safety assurances for Red Cross workers in war-torn eastern Ukraine. The Red Cross refuses protection from armed guards, a policy that may complicate efforts to establish a Red Cross-headed mission in Ukraine any time soon, since rebels have at times argued among themselves about what kind of protections to offer international agencies.
A spokesman for the Red Cross office in Kiev said Tuesday that their office — which would coordinate the distribution of any aid — had not been informed by Russian authorities prior to the convoy’s departure. “There are talks now with the Ukrainian authorities to try to sort out the situation,” said Andre Loersch, the spokesman.
Ukrainian officials have said that they fear that any Russian aid convoy could be used as a pretext for a fuller military intervention from Russia, which has massed tens of thousands of troops at the border with Ukraine, according to Western officials........
The convoy departed a day after NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen warned that there was a “high probability” of a Russian military intervention in Ukraine. “We see the Russians developing the narrative and the pretext for such an operation under the guise of a humanitarian operation, and we see a military buildup that could be used to conduct such illegal military operations in Ukraine,” Rasmussen told the Reuters news agency.
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Ah, now the arms race was a good thing too, Ronald. You just keep on getting better.
It may seem somewhat counter-intuitive, but Ronald has a point about the Cold War? We've all read comments on forums like this about the degree to which defence assets, rather than spending, has been reduced. The chief cause of that, as accepted, has been the end of the Cold War, the problem is, the nonstop litany of events demanding a military response or vigilance to some degree since has not brought about a change of heart on defence arrangements, thanks mostly to the utter refusal to let go of the promised post cold war peace dividend and the arrogant belief in both the U.S.A. and U.K. particularly, that problems requiring a military resolution like Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and Iraq yet again, would require the minimum level of commitment of personnel and resources. If there is another big hitter on the block we may see our elected leaders maintain a more realistic military posture and think twice before having a go at seemingly inadequate countries which just don't conform to the Western Liberal ideal.
Best
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