R-Day!!!
It ain't all about you Kipper Mates you know. In this Tranche we've lost AAR, AD, SIGINT, AT and SH experience as well - and they have aircraft to go to (E3D, FSTA, C17/C130J, RJ and a future boat-load of CH47s - plus additional Reaper and if JSF/JCA ever gets cancelled a bunch of F18F/Gs).
Granted, it's been rocky ride for you Moray boys and grils but there are people from LYE, WAD, LEU, etc... that have also suffered.
As someone who has "jumped" on my own terms before being "pushed" on theirs, after the couple of days shock of "Oh Christ, have I done the right thing?", I soon realised I had done the right thing and can't wait to get started in my new job. The resettlement seems to be getting in the way, but it is very comprehensive. I would be very surprised, if individuals are prepared to put themselves about and commute an hour or so, that the vast majority did not find employment. The redundancy payments and resettlement periods on full pay will pay for re-training of some sort, so see it as an opportunity to be the "rats leaving a sinking ship".
Good luck to all, keep your happy memories, I'll see you at the Cenotpah in my bowler hat next year and most of all don't waste this opportunity.
LJ
P.S. Here are some suggestions for job vacancies for people looking for people like us:
https://atsv7.wcn.co.uk/company/nghr/jobs.cgi?SID
https://apply.gchq-careers.co.uk/fe/...?newms=srs&c14
Vacancies - Aviation Jobs with CAA Careers
RAF Reserves - FTRS Vacancies
Aviation Jobs, Airline Jobs, Air Jobs, Jobs in Aviation - AviationJobSearch.com
Granted, it's been rocky ride for you Moray boys and grils but there are people from LYE, WAD, LEU, etc... that have also suffered.
As someone who has "jumped" on my own terms before being "pushed" on theirs, after the couple of days shock of "Oh Christ, have I done the right thing?", I soon realised I had done the right thing and can't wait to get started in my new job. The resettlement seems to be getting in the way, but it is very comprehensive. I would be very surprised, if individuals are prepared to put themselves about and commute an hour or so, that the vast majority did not find employment. The redundancy payments and resettlement periods on full pay will pay for re-training of some sort, so see it as an opportunity to be the "rats leaving a sinking ship".
Good luck to all, keep your happy memories, I'll see you at the Cenotpah in my bowler hat next year and most of all don't waste this opportunity.
LJ
P.S. Here are some suggestions for job vacancies for people looking for people like us:
https://atsv7.wcn.co.uk/company/nghr/jobs.cgi?SID
https://apply.gchq-careers.co.uk/fe/...?newms=srs&c14
Vacancies - Aviation Jobs with CAA Careers
RAF Reserves - FTRS Vacancies
Aviation Jobs, Airline Jobs, Air Jobs, Jobs in Aviation - AviationJobSearch.com
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For those stations that had Chf Clks on leave/PSF closed on such a day as R Day
Dont forget it wasnt just growbags who were sacked last Thursday and the unit(s) in question may well be looking for a new Chf Clk in 2012.
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Notwithstanding that a number of Chf Clks may very well have received their own bad news on the day, it was their DUTY to be available to support the other station personnel - I may be wrong but is TG 17 not called something like Personnel Support these days. Just a thought!
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Biggus/LJ,
I, for one, am not suggesting that anyone made redundant - applicant or not -got a good deal. Moreover, I know that it is not just about Kipper Mates. However, I am not stationed somewhere else - I work at ISK - and so I cannot comment on their issues. They have the option to post here themselves; I'm happy to read their views.
Duncs
I, for one, am not suggesting that anyone made redundant - applicant or not -got a good deal. Moreover, I know that it is not just about Kipper Mates. However, I am not stationed somewhere else - I work at ISK - and so I cannot comment on their issues. They have the option to post here themselves; I'm happy to read their views.
Duncs
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I think that "the rash of ISK posts" is probably due to the high number of the PPRuNe members that have been made redundant against their will are based at ISK. And some bloody good, experienced and intelligent guys and girls at ISK have been given the Royal Order of the Boot - seeing some of them get their letter was a huge shock!!
As Duncs said, there is nothing stopping others from elsewhere posting their feelings and thoughts.
MFC
As Duncs said, there is nothing stopping others from elsewhere posting their feelings and thoughts.
MFC
LJ
Your last link - the figures at the top of the page offer hope - 1634 jobs. Until you see the figure to the left .....293,790 job seekers.
The best of luck to all those undergoing a career change (by choice or otherwise
)
Your last link - the figures at the top of the page offer hope - 1634 jobs. Until you see the figure to the left .....293,790 job seekers.
The best of luck to all those undergoing a career change (by choice or otherwise
)
Some people on 51 that weren't on RJ courses and a bunch of F3 Navs (including about 9x JO Navs before IPP) got the "Royal Order of the Boot". Aircrew in Staff appointments at HQ Air and the AWC also got the "ROB". A bunch of guys/gals at BZN/LYE also got the "ROB".
I agree with Biggus, this is not just a KIS problem - in fact, as he so rightly points out, they may even be better placed than others.
I also agree with LJ - see it as an opportunity and make the most of all the help you can. I would also be staggered if everyone doesn't find a job - just don't be too picky (a usual downfall of jobhunters).
iRaven (starting resettlement now as I expect the "ROB" next time around!)
I agree with Biggus, this is not just a KIS problem - in fact, as he so rightly points out, they may even be better placed than others.
I also agree with LJ - see it as an opportunity and make the most of all the help you can. I would also be staggered if everyone doesn't find a job - just don't be too picky (a usual downfall of jobhunters).
iRaven (starting resettlement now as I expect the "ROB" next time around!)
Wrathmonk - that's hardly surprising for a Global Website advertising Global Jobs...
Anyway, here are links to others looking for people (remember if it is job in the interests of UK Defence your Boss should be able to let you go early).
https://cobham.taleo.net/careersecti...ch.ftl?lang=en
MASS - Current Vacancies
Vacancies | dstl | Defence Science and Technology Laboratory
Your CV is all important and make sure you tailor it to each and every application. At interview be prepared to discuss your bad points as well as your good ones - humbleness vs arrogance is the key!
LJ
Anyway, here are links to others looking for people (remember if it is job in the interests of UK Defence your Boss should be able to let you go early).
https://cobham.taleo.net/careersecti...ch.ftl?lang=en
MASS - Current Vacancies
Vacancies | dstl | Defence Science and Technology Laboratory
Your CV is all important and make sure you tailor it to each and every application. At interview be prepared to discuss your bad points as well as your good ones - humbleness vs arrogance is the key!
LJ
LJ
Everything is relative - the point I (clearly) failed to make was that you could say that there are approx 180 jobseekers looking/applying for each job. I'm guessing those figures will probably apply whether it is global or just UK. Some people will "luck in" and get the first job they apply for. Others won't.
that's hardly surprising for a Global Website advertising Global Jobs...
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There are some very well intentioned posts in here but I do wonder if any of those "don't worry I did fine so you will be ok" posters actually realise the magnitude of the cup of cold sick that has been served up to many of our people.
Mrs SFFP took voluntary redundancy earlier this year from a very well paid post with the County Council. She was happy to go as I finish next year and wearee off to travel the globe but she went to all the local Agencies for a look see and there is nothing out there that even begins to compare with what she was on. And that's here in the Southwest where there is work.
Now picture some poor soul in ISK or the like who has planned his/her whole life around the commitment they have made to the service. They may have bought their own homes, have partners that work, kids in school and they are now redundant. To get any sort of a decent job they are probably going to have to move so will get hooped in the property market. They are out of work so how the hell are they going to get a mortgage, especially with the rules that are in place at this time.
We are also in a global financial crisis with the country going through some of the toughest times I can ever remember. This has not been handled well and some people are going to end up on the streets for sure.
Mrs SFFP took voluntary redundancy earlier this year from a very well paid post with the County Council. She was happy to go as I finish next year and wearee off to travel the globe but she went to all the local Agencies for a look see and there is nothing out there that even begins to compare with what she was on. And that's here in the Southwest where there is work.
Now picture some poor soul in ISK or the like who has planned his/her whole life around the commitment they have made to the service. They may have bought their own homes, have partners that work, kids in school and they are now redundant. To get any sort of a decent job they are probably going to have to move so will get hooped in the property market. They are out of work so how the hell are they going to get a mortgage, especially with the rules that are in place at this time.
We are also in a global financial crisis with the country going through some of the toughest times I can ever remember. This has not been handled well and some people are going to end up on the streets for sure.
In the Highlands there's a pretty big tourist industry, forest/land management, North Sea oil and the normal commercial enterprises - as much as the South West I would say.
On the mortgage front, if taking a new job, I would always look to rent first if relocating anyway. That way you don't end up buying the first place you see, check the "lie of the land" with respect to schools and also, if your probationary period doesn't work out then you don't have a mortgage to worry about.
The one that planned to be at Kinloss for the rest of their life whilst serving in HMforces should not be surprised at having to relocate - that is one of the reasons we get paid X-factor. Otherwise, that individual is in denial and has been taking X-factor on false pretences (and I'm not talking about the thing with Simon Cowell). When I bought houses I always expected to have to sell/rent them out after 3 years and move elsewhere.
I bet Mrs Sffp doesn't have a large tax-free lumpsum, resettlement package with funding and an immediate pension (in some cases) that most of our guys will have. Most don't start on the same salary they left on unless they're lucky, some offset this with an immediate pension and some just have to suck it up (the tax free lump sum should help).
I do not share your gloom, old boy...
The B Word
On the mortgage front, if taking a new job, I would always look to rent first if relocating anyway. That way you don't end up buying the first place you see, check the "lie of the land" with respect to schools and also, if your probationary period doesn't work out then you don't have a mortgage to worry about.
The one that planned to be at Kinloss for the rest of their life whilst serving in HMforces should not be surprised at having to relocate - that is one of the reasons we get paid X-factor. Otherwise, that individual is in denial and has been taking X-factor on false pretences (and I'm not talking about the thing with Simon Cowell). When I bought houses I always expected to have to sell/rent them out after 3 years and move elsewhere.
I bet Mrs Sffp doesn't have a large tax-free lumpsum, resettlement package with funding and an immediate pension (in some cases) that most of our guys will have. Most don't start on the same salary they left on unless they're lucky, some offset this with an immediate pension and some just have to suck it up (the tax free lump sum should help).
I do not share your gloom, old boy...
The B Word
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Seldom
Welcome to my world and the world of a lot of people in civil aviation, no one gives a flying **** about you or how you planned to live your life, it's just about the money.
Do I feel for these people? yes because I have been dumped in the situation three times now. You just have to get on your feet and fend for yourself.
To say this has been badly handled is a bit rich, there is a redundancy package that is much better than anything I have ever seen in civil aviation. If you think I am not telling the truth you can ask anyone from Bcal, Dan-air, Air Europe, Debonair, XL, Silverjet, Globespan, Silverjet and few other companies that have slipped my mind at the moment, they will all tell you about the redundancy package that was worth a big fat zero £.
Do I feel for these people? yes because I have been dumped in the situation three times now. You just have to get on your feet and fend for yourself.
To say this has been badly handled is a bit rich, there is a redundancy package that is much better than anything I have ever seen in civil aviation. If you think I am not telling the truth you can ask anyone from Bcal, Dan-air, Air Europe, Debonair, XL, Silverjet, Globespan, Silverjet and few other companies that have slipped my mind at the moment, they will all tell you about the redundancy package that was worth a big fat zero £.
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B,
I hear what you say but the reality is that there are folk here in Wilts who have spent their whole time here and no doubt ISK and other places will have similar.
If you are a Nimrod AEOp and didn't want to go any where else, once St Mawgan closed where the hell were you going to work?
If you were a Herc ALM and had no desire to move why would the poster move you?
The baldrick world has not functioned in that "3 years and move" manner for years.
I really hope your rosy outlook is right but the cynic in me thinks there will be quite a few folk who are not taking this quite as calmly as you depict.
I hear what you say but the reality is that there are folk here in Wilts who have spent their whole time here and no doubt ISK and other places will have similar.
If you are a Nimrod AEOp and didn't want to go any where else, once St Mawgan closed where the hell were you going to work?
If you were a Herc ALM and had no desire to move why would the poster move you?
The baldrick world has not functioned in that "3 years and move" manner for years.
I really hope your rosy outlook is right but the cynic in me thinks there will be quite a few folk who are not taking this quite as calmly as you depict.
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SFFP
While I won't be as harsh as some others here, (which may or may not surprise you), I somewhat agree with the basic premise. Of all the jobs out there the military is one of the ones most affected by the whims of others, (read: politicians). Thus, in a position that is so potentially fluid I don't understand why people have put down such roots. Yes, I bought a house while I was still in, but I did it in Ash Vale, fifty yards from a railway station that is 40 minutes from London on the morning train... Not somewhere about as far as you can get from "real life". To have made such a commitment to a geographic location was illogical and an impeding disaster waiting to happen and, to be honest, smacks of complacency.
Am I speaking from 50+ years of experience about people with on 30 years or so? Maybe. But I don't think the point is entirely unfounded.
Now picture some poor soul in ISK or the like who has planned his/her whole life around the commitment they have made to the service. They may have bought their own homes, have partners that work, kids in school and they are now redundant. To get any sort of a decent job they are probably going to have to move so will get hooped in the property market. They are out of work so how the hell are they going to get a mortgage, especially with the rules that are in place at this time.
Am I speaking from 50+ years of experience about people with on 30 years or so? Maybe. But I don't think the point is entirely unfounded.
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Welcome to my world and the world of a lot of people in civil aviation, no one gives a flying **** about you or how you planned to live your life, it's just about the money.
Sorry to disappoint but this is not about me, I am not being made redundant and am not going to be, I will serve to age 55 and then retire, as in never work again
Do I feel for these people? yes because I have been dumped in the situation three times now. You just have to get on your feet and fend for yourself.
As a civilian you will simply not get this but you will never have signed a contract with an employer that states you will fully commit your life to them to age 38/40/47/55 depending on terms of service. You have never said to your employer that you will go where ever when ever they say for as long as they say. You need to have served to understand exactly what service folk give
To say this has been badly handled is a bit rich,
It has been badly handled and badly thought through. There are plenty of folk like me who are close enough to retirement to seriously consider early retirement if offered but it's not even an option. I and others would happily move over and let others step up into our shoes but we are stuck in the pension trap, anyone with half a brain cell could have worked this out
there is a redundancy package that is much better than anything I have ever seen in civil aviation. If you think I am not telling the truth you can ask anyone from Bcal, Dan-air, Air Europe, Debonair, XL, Silverjet, Globespan, Silverjet and few other companies that have slipped my mind at the moment, they will all tell you about the redundancy package that was worth a big fat zero £.
Sorry to disappoint but this is not about me, I am not being made redundant and am not going to be, I will serve to age 55 and then retire, as in never work again
Do I feel for these people? yes because I have been dumped in the situation three times now. You just have to get on your feet and fend for yourself.
As a civilian you will simply not get this but you will never have signed a contract with an employer that states you will fully commit your life to them to age 38/40/47/55 depending on terms of service. You have never said to your employer that you will go where ever when ever they say for as long as they say. You need to have served to understand exactly what service folk give
To say this has been badly handled is a bit rich,
It has been badly handled and badly thought through. There are plenty of folk like me who are close enough to retirement to seriously consider early retirement if offered but it's not even an option. I and others would happily move over and let others step up into our shoes but we are stuck in the pension trap, anyone with half a brain cell could have worked this out
there is a redundancy package that is much better than anything I have ever seen in civil aviation. If you think I am not telling the truth you can ask anyone from Bcal, Dan-air, Air Europe, Debonair, XL, Silverjet, Globespan, Silverjet and few other companies that have slipped my mind at the moment, they will all tell you about the redundancy package that was worth a big fat zero £.
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Just a polite notion and nothing sinister intended but if you had stayed in and had been happy to remain a Chinook crewman do you honestly believe you would have been posted away from Odiham for the fun of it?
If you keep in touch with folk then I would be very surprised to hear that there are none left from your days at Odiham.
There are Herc pilots and ALM's here in Wilts that have been here since I got here 14 years ago and had been here almost as long prior to my arrival.
The kipper fleet will have plenty of similar folk so I am not sure why that is so difficult to understand.
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Seldom, I think that those people that have been in the same location for an extended period of years have been extremely fortunate. I have spoken to many a fast jet guy and they normally get moved to completely different parts of the country after each tour, approximately every 3 years.
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SFFP:
Last I heard the three I went through AAITC, Shawbury and 240 OCU with:-
Dave A. was in Oman on Pumas?
John W. was at High Wycombe in Staff position.
Niel E. was at Brize on big, fat things...
.
Do I know how they arrived there? No. Am I silly enough to think that I could still be living happily at Odiham or Benson? No.
The only reason we bought the house was because the market was booming and, because of it's location, even in a bad market, we could sell it in minutes. As it was, and the way things went, we made more selling it after less than 18 months than the RAF paid me annually so it worked out well. Am I a genius? No, my ex-wife was pretty close to it though.
Even then, we rented a house on the same street for the previous year to get a feel for everything.
My point? In the military, you can't trust your "leaders" not to screw you over.
Last I heard the three I went through AAITC, Shawbury and 240 OCU with:-
Dave A. was in Oman on Pumas?
John W. was at High Wycombe in Staff position.
Niel E. was at Brize on big, fat things...
.Do I know how they arrived there? No. Am I silly enough to think that I could still be living happily at Odiham or Benson? No.
The only reason we bought the house was because the market was booming and, because of it's location, even in a bad market, we could sell it in minutes. As it was, and the way things went, we made more selling it after less than 18 months than the RAF paid me annually so it worked out well. Am I a genius? No, my ex-wife was pretty close to it though.
Even then, we rented a house on the same street for the previous year to get a feel for everything.My point? In the military, you can't trust your "leaders" not to screw you over.
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Foghorn,
I spent my first 14 years as a technician and as such I could work on any aircraft if I did the right training. In that time I worked 1st, 2nd and 3rd line and I worked on FJ, AT and Rotary. We never stayed anywhere longer than 3 years and I served on 5 units including an over seas tour.
Then I went Aircrew. I did 3 tours on Rotary and if I had not asked to move I would still be there. I did move and have spent 14 years on type.
I appreciate others have a different experience but mine is not unique
I spent my first 14 years as a technician and as such I could work on any aircraft if I did the right training. In that time I worked 1st, 2nd and 3rd line and I worked on FJ, AT and Rotary. We never stayed anywhere longer than 3 years and I served on 5 units including an over seas tour.
Then I went Aircrew. I did 3 tours on Rotary and if I had not asked to move I would still be there. I did move and have spent 14 years on type.
I appreciate others have a different experience but mine is not unique