R-Day!!!
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gijoe,
All those that received 'letters' on Thursday are being made compulsory redundant; albeit some (just under half) were applicants. I may be wrong, but I think that the timescale to depart is the 'only' thing different.
Duncs
All those that received 'letters' on Thursday are being made compulsory redundant; albeit some (just under half) were applicants. I may be wrong, but I think that the timescale to depart is the 'only' thing different.
Duncs
Join Date: May 2001
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Duncs,
Thanks for that - I think this is a typo. Volunteer or no volunteer I can't see how that affects ones entitlement to commute?
The SPVA, bless 'em, are saying that this is a single service issue and all queries about pensions must be directed to the single service.......
G
Thanks for that - I think this is a typo. Volunteer or no volunteer I can't see how that affects ones entitlement to commute?
The SPVA, bless 'em, are saying that this is a single service issue and all queries about pensions must be directed to the single service.......
G
A few other points worth NB'ing:
If you set yourself up as a self-employed consultant, don't forget to put some money into a savings account to pay your tax bill! When you do your first self declaration after leaving the mob, HMRC will bill you for your untaxed income and will also require money in advance for the following year's assessed income. Fine and dandy if you've planned ahead for that, but it can really bite your arse if you haven't!
If your consultancy work doesn't provide a regular income, you could have a good year followed by a bad year - but you will have been pre-assessed for the bad year in advance. Yes, it will all sort itself out in the end, but you could find your pension being taxed at 40%, investment income (if only...) being taxed at the high rate - and yet little income from work. So whatever you do, do NOT commit all your dosh. Keep a prudent combat reserve!
Earn too much and you might find yourself hitting the VAT trigger. While you might wish to register for VAT at a lower income figure, it is mandatory if you hit the trigger value. You WILL need an accountant if that happens.....
Having had some good, some excellent and some lean years, I can assure you that a 'high' income is not always a good thing if you want an easy life. Also, never, never try to be clever with HMRC. They are basically good chaps who will help wherever they can - but lie to them and flag up an attention-getter on their system and you could be the subject of close scrutiny thereafter. There are loads of things which are genuinely allowable against tax, but don't push your luck!
Another tip is to join BUPA while still in the mob. That way you join on a lower rate which continues after you leave. Why join BUPA? Well, your work might depend on your availability and having to wait on an NHS waiting list could seriously damage your work opportunities.
Don't forget dental cover either. Attempting to get on an NHS fang-farrier's list can be almost impossible, so go for Denplan or similar. Private gnasher-bashers have all the latest toys, so for a few quid a month you can have a truly painless service.
Apologies if I've wittered on for longer than that superannuated S1 box-chucker might wish, but when you're no longer on PAYE you really need to be prepared.
If you set yourself up as a self-employed consultant, don't forget to put some money into a savings account to pay your tax bill! When you do your first self declaration after leaving the mob, HMRC will bill you for your untaxed income and will also require money in advance for the following year's assessed income. Fine and dandy if you've planned ahead for that, but it can really bite your arse if you haven't!
If your consultancy work doesn't provide a regular income, you could have a good year followed by a bad year - but you will have been pre-assessed for the bad year in advance. Yes, it will all sort itself out in the end, but you could find your pension being taxed at 40%, investment income (if only...) being taxed at the high rate - and yet little income from work. So whatever you do, do NOT commit all your dosh. Keep a prudent combat reserve!
Earn too much and you might find yourself hitting the VAT trigger. While you might wish to register for VAT at a lower income figure, it is mandatory if you hit the trigger value. You WILL need an accountant if that happens.....
Having had some good, some excellent and some lean years, I can assure you that a 'high' income is not always a good thing if you want an easy life. Also, never, never try to be clever with HMRC. They are basically good chaps who will help wherever they can - but lie to them and flag up an attention-getter on their system and you could be the subject of close scrutiny thereafter. There are loads of things which are genuinely allowable against tax, but don't push your luck!
Another tip is to join BUPA while still in the mob. That way you join on a lower rate which continues after you leave. Why join BUPA? Well, your work might depend on your availability and having to wait on an NHS waiting list could seriously damage your work opportunities.
Don't forget dental cover either. Attempting to get on an NHS fang-farrier's list can be almost impossible, so go for Denplan or similar. Private gnasher-bashers have all the latest toys, so for a few quid a month you can have a truly painless service.
Apologies if I've wittered on for longer than that superannuated S1 box-chucker might wish, but when you're no longer on PAYE you really need to be prepared.
Join Date: Jan 1999
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Seldom
Blunt I have no trouble with, what I don't hold with is rude & abusive.
Your comments in my direction have you with both feet the wrong side of the line and just undermine the point that you are trying to make.
I am sure that if you were in the next hangar down the line and there was a chance that some time in the future I could be doing a check ride on you would act in this way. However as you seem to be a crewman with no ambition to move to the front of the aircraft it is unlikely that we will cross paths.
Your comments in my direction have you with both feet the wrong side of the line and just undermine the point that you are trying to make.
I am sure that if you were in the next hangar down the line and there was a chance that some time in the future I could be doing a check ride on you would act in this way. However as you seem to be a crewman with no ambition to move to the front of the aircraft it is unlikely that we will cross paths.
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A & C
Having observed this rubbish for several days, I think you have thrown as many stones as any other here, and frankly a little more sensitivity to fellow aviators who have been made redundant wouldn't go amiss.
Isn't there a playground in JetBlast where you, Caz and SFFP can go and beat each other up?
"Disgusted of Lincoln"
Isn't there a playground in JetBlast where you, Caz and SFFP can go and beat each other up?
"Disgusted of Lincoln"
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Camelspyyder
I have been I may have been a little blunt with some on this forum who think that they are getting a raw deal, redundancy is never good but when the big picture is viewed the deal that has been offered to those leaving the forces is far better that anything I have ever seen in civil aviation.
As for the sensitivity bit , I take the more practical view and have waved my fees for flying with those who have been made redundant and are trying to get civilian licences.
As for the sensitivity bit , I take the more practical view and have waved my fees for flying with those who have been made redundant and are trying to get civilian licences.
FODPlod
I now get what you're saying - thanks. But at the end of the day if you earn £75k up front or £50k plus £25k pension you'll still be paying similar amounts of tax (save for NI).
LJ
I now get what you're saying - thanks. But at the end of the day if you earn £75k up front or £50k plus £25k pension you'll still be paying similar amounts of tax (save for NI).
LJ
FINANCIAL PLANNING
Beagle,
an excellent, no-nonsense post. I have been in the Services most of my working life and having supervised different contracts over the years, I remain astounded how naive service personnel are about businees in general and 'simple' tax matters in particular. I was fortunate (although it didn't seem so at the time) to be involved in my parents engineering firm in my teens (albeit at Varsity) until I eventually took the Queen's Shilling. This gave me a basic understanding of business practices and basic tax rules (eg usual ability to claim for expenses necessary to go about one's business). As I have posted before, HMRC can be particularly helpful and pragmatic; however if one tries to be too clever, they'll take one to the clearners, and go back to in one's records to the days of £sd, should they wish to.
Your salient points on self-employment and self-assessment are pertinent to several people I know who have left in recent years and set themselves up as consultants, spending up large without considering the enormous bite that HMRC can - and rightly do - deliver. One chap (PA Flt Lt), whom I suspect you crossed paths with over the years, has fled to France in an effort to avoid the tax man.
Luckily, I don't need to worry about declaring income form investments...like most people here!
an excellent, no-nonsense post. I have been in the Services most of my working life and having supervised different contracts over the years, I remain astounded how naive service personnel are about businees in general and 'simple' tax matters in particular. I was fortunate (although it didn't seem so at the time) to be involved in my parents engineering firm in my teens (albeit at Varsity) until I eventually took the Queen's Shilling. This gave me a basic understanding of business practices and basic tax rules (eg usual ability to claim for expenses necessary to go about one's business). As I have posted before, HMRC can be particularly helpful and pragmatic; however if one tries to be too clever, they'll take one to the clearners, and go back to in one's records to the days of £sd, should they wish to.
Your salient points on self-employment and self-assessment are pertinent to several people I know who have left in recent years and set themselves up as consultants, spending up large without considering the enormous bite that HMRC can - and rightly do - deliver. One chap (PA Flt Lt), whom I suspect you crossed paths with over the years, has fled to France in an effort to avoid the tax man.
Luckily, I don't need to worry about declaring income form investments...like most people here!
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...redundancy is never good but when the big picture is viewed the deal that has been offered to those leaving the forces is far better that anything I have ever seen in civil aviation.
AandC,
I don't think anyone who has received the letter this week will argue with you. It is, in the round, generous.
G
AandC,
I don't think anyone who has received the letter this week will argue with you. It is, in the round, generous.
G
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Rather than comparing the financial package to someone in civilian life which is really rather irrelevant why not dwell a while on the gross unfairness of the selection process.
Aircrew mates who have been decidedly average over the years luck in by being combat ready on a type currently supporting ops whilst some good guys in T&E, training or awaiting their replacement type to come on line are heartlessly binned as providing no useful service to the future of the RAF.
This may be despite 20-30 years service, giving their best to the RAF and doing everything that was asked whilst making key choices like; whether to join AFPS 05, buy a house in the local area, compromise a spouses career etc etc due not unrealistically to an expectation of service until 55 years of age.
Aircrew mates who have been decidedly average over the years luck in by being combat ready on a type currently supporting ops whilst some good guys in T&E, training or awaiting their replacement type to come on line are heartlessly binned as providing no useful service to the future of the RAF.
This may be despite 20-30 years service, giving their best to the RAF and doing everything that was asked whilst making key choices like; whether to join AFPS 05, buy a house in the local area, compromise a spouses career etc etc due not unrealistically to an expectation of service until 55 years of age.
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Consultancy
BEAGS WURH et al. Last week I spent some time with an accountant discussing the best way of setting oneself up in business - as a defence conultant. His best advice was as a Limited Company; 100 "shares", divided up amongst the great and good i.e family - so in my case 25 each for me, 2 sons and mem sahib. Don't draw a salary but leave money (clearly after expenses) in the company but pay a dividend at regular intervals (i.e 12 months) (I have since come across someone who pays his "shareholders" a monthly dividend with no adverse repercussions from HM C and R). Apparently the tax burden on such dividens is 20% - clearly you need to take into account tax thresholds incurred by pensions etc and distribute the filthy lucre accordingly. This is the giste of it and obviously take professional advice wrt your own circumstances but it could be the way forward for those interested. CB
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PFMG,
Couldn't agree more with your post. The way the selection was handled is confusing to say the least especially when you look at some of those who are staying and some of those who are going?? Don't get me wrong, there are good guys/gals on both sides, but when you have a system that rewards mediocrity just for being in the right place at the right time then its time to go. Kinloss took an absolute pasting compared to some stations I could mention and as has already been said elsewhere in these forums, the RAF/MoD will not realise what they've lost until its too late!
I know plenty at ISK that got their marching orders who would have thrived in any post in places like Waddo, Northwood etc. That said, the fact that they are 'clever' people, many could see the writing on the wall and in the main are happy to be going - perhaps not in the circumstances or manner in which they are going, but still happy to be going nonetheless.
As for what's left when the dust settles - as I said some good, some bad, some average but all the very best to them - they are going to need it!
Personally, I'm happy to be getting out now. Is the grass greener, that I don't know yet but I'm pretty sure I won't regret the decisions I've made.
Couldn't agree more with your post. The way the selection was handled is confusing to say the least especially when you look at some of those who are staying and some of those who are going?? Don't get me wrong, there are good guys/gals on both sides, but when you have a system that rewards mediocrity just for being in the right place at the right time then its time to go. Kinloss took an absolute pasting compared to some stations I could mention and as has already been said elsewhere in these forums, the RAF/MoD will not realise what they've lost until its too late!
I know plenty at ISK that got their marching orders who would have thrived in any post in places like Waddo, Northwood etc. That said, the fact that they are 'clever' people, many could see the writing on the wall and in the main are happy to be going - perhaps not in the circumstances or manner in which they are going, but still happy to be going nonetheless.
As for what's left when the dust settles - as I said some good, some bad, some average but all the very best to them - they are going to need it!
Personally, I'm happy to be getting out now. Is the grass greener, that I don't know yet but I'm pretty sure I won't regret the decisions I've made.
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From an occasional observer I echo the original thrust of the tread and wish good luck to all those involved (this time around) whether or not from choice. Serious commiserations for the apparent injustice and lack of logic involving some of the non-volunteers. Been out 5 years now and tried to reinvent myself outside aviation after 10 years on Kipper fleet and 25 years on AT/AAR in various guises, it’s not easy but potentially more sustainable in the long run. In these times, employers want a full day’s work (and more) for what would seem a small return. You may be surprised to learn how good you really are in the job market and how much your background and training gives you greater value to potential employers. Don’t sell yourself short but be prepared to start low and move up on your own merits. I feel you deserve better but it’s not like that so best of luck to you all whether you are on your way now or later.
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Caz
Not a Mod (prefer rock and proper bikes to be honest) - In fact I'm just another occasionally pompous windbag on pprune
I am though a member of the aircrew trade that got the biggest kicking in tranche 1 and I have waited since October last year and the MRA4 cancellation under threat of the chop myself.
I may just a little too sensitive about this issue.
CS
I am though a member of the aircrew trade that got the biggest kicking in tranche 1 and I have waited since October last year and the MRA4 cancellation under threat of the chop myself.
I may just a little too sensitive about this issue.
CS
I've heard that Tranche 2 numbers & trades etc will be released in Jan 12, anyone heard anything?
As I will move into the frame for the big R, can anyone confirm exactly how you get an official forecast on the payout? ( A forecast that allows you to plan, and is accountable)
I have contacted SPVA #7 - 'you need to speak with your HR Redundancy Focal Point'. Focal Point not really interested and refers to the online calculator and the Armed Forces Pension Society. However, the calculator states that it is not the definitive! So who is responsible for giving me an accurate payout figure, if I am made redundant? I'm afraid I can't leave it to chance as the Black and Yellow is calling..........
As I will move into the frame for the big R, can anyone confirm exactly how you get an official forecast on the payout? ( A forecast that allows you to plan, and is accountable)
I have contacted SPVA #7 - 'you need to speak with your HR Redundancy Focal Point'. Focal Point not really interested and refers to the online calculator and the Armed Forces Pension Society. However, the calculator states that it is not the definitive! So who is responsible for giving me an accurate payout figure, if I am made redundant? I'm afraid I can't leave it to chance as the Black and Yellow is calling..........
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That is a very good question as to how you can get an accurate forecast of what you might get should you be made redundant. I have already been made redundant and am struggling get a forecast that gives me a figure that I can calculate myself.
This because the forecast is based on Final Relevent Earnings:
Inflation adjustments in determining final relevant earnings
7.—(1) For the purpose of determining a person’s final relevant earnings under article 6, the amount of relevant earnings, as determined in accordance with article 6, for that part of the period of 365 days that falls 365 days or more before the last day of service is adjusted for inflation.
(2) If the member’s final relevant earnings are determined in accordance with paragraph (1) to be an amount for any period in relation to which any adjustment for inflation has been made under this article, then, except as provided in article 11(2) and (3), the member’s final relevant earnings are to be taken for all purposes to be the amount so determined after that adjustment.
(3) The reference in paragraph (1) to adjusting for inflation the amount of relevant earnings for part of a period is a reference to increasing it by the same amount as that by which an annual pension of an amount equal to those earnings would have been increased under the Pensions (Increase) Act 1971(a) on the day following the last day of relevant service if the pension—
(a) were eligible to be so increased, and
(b) had come into payment on the day following the last day of that period.
My figure I received in my redundancy notification appears to be based on the pay I received from 1 Apr 10 to 31 Mar 11 increased by CPI of 3.1%. Given that CPI has just been announced as 5.2% (the figure that will be used for pension purposes in FY12/13), my exit date is 31 Aug 12 and that I received a PA Increment on 25 Mar 11, I believe the way SPVA has calculated my FRE is incorrect. I suspect I will end up going via the Forces Pension Society to check my figures and if need be do battle with SPVA.
This because the forecast is based on Final Relevent Earnings:
Inflation adjustments in determining final relevant earnings
7.—(1) For the purpose of determining a person’s final relevant earnings under article 6, the amount of relevant earnings, as determined in accordance with article 6, for that part of the period of 365 days that falls 365 days or more before the last day of service is adjusted for inflation.
(2) If the member’s final relevant earnings are determined in accordance with paragraph (1) to be an amount for any period in relation to which any adjustment for inflation has been made under this article, then, except as provided in article 11(2) and (3), the member’s final relevant earnings are to be taken for all purposes to be the amount so determined after that adjustment.
(3) The reference in paragraph (1) to adjusting for inflation the amount of relevant earnings for part of a period is a reference to increasing it by the same amount as that by which an annual pension of an amount equal to those earnings would have been increased under the Pensions (Increase) Act 1971(a) on the day following the last day of relevant service if the pension—
(a) were eligible to be so increased, and
(b) had come into payment on the day following the last day of that period.
My figure I received in my redundancy notification appears to be based on the pay I received from 1 Apr 10 to 31 Mar 11 increased by CPI of 3.1%. Given that CPI has just been announced as 5.2% (the figure that will be used for pension purposes in FY12/13), my exit date is 31 Aug 12 and that I received a PA Increment on 25 Mar 11, I believe the way SPVA has calculated my FRE is incorrect. I suspect I will end up going via the Forces Pension Society to check my figures and if need be do battle with SPVA.
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Word is that the online redundancy calculator is pretty damn accurate, more so than than the written statement that came with the sacking letter. T'was what I was told anyway.
MoD Redundancy Calculator
MoD Redundancy Calculator