PVRs started.....
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I am surprised to hear about the rotary world job market being bouyant. I work for one of the major UK onshore players and although we are recruiting, the company generally go for people who can get an IR easily. The military package is good for that, however the police market is dead and buried at this time, corporate talk the talk but the punters are hanging on to their money at the moment. Shawbury is laying off instructors and the offshore market is 'steady' but hardly begging for pilots. Overseas contracts are avaiable, but what a c@@p lifestyle. Rotary pilots wanting airlines are getting jobs, but the companies are insisting on large cash sums for the conversion and no pay until line checks are done. That can take months. A helicopter pilot I know, has 737 experience and contacted ###2 Airlines about their recent ad for ex-mil pilots. They were not interested because he was already rated and they wanted the upfront money for conversion. It wasn't the military experience they wanted, it was the gratuity payment!!
I am happy after 7 years on the outside, my old job 'disappeared' last year and I was lucky to find a new one locally, my wages are just now reaching my military levels and quality of life is much better. However, be aware that things are not quite as rosy as some people make out, job security is not secure, just be careful out here!!!!
I am happy after 7 years on the outside, my old job 'disappeared' last year and I was lucky to find a new one locally, my wages are just now reaching my military levels and quality of life is much better. However, be aware that things are not quite as rosy as some people make out, job security is not secure, just be careful out here!!!!
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Jayteeto
Valid points all, but you may have missed the fact that job security (or at least satisfaction) is not a lot better inside at the moment either! The RAF Manning experts chopped 1/2 the studes at SY earlier this year, and have just increased PVR times because they need to stem the outflow as we apparently don't have enough pilots.
But you have to ask for what exactly...Merlin going to Navy (probably), SAR going...somewhere. Leaves Chinnies and the plastic pig. That's it. Not the world you left by a long way - it is currently a desperately sad place to be, and the only certainty we have is that it is going to get worse (and that was the OFFICIAL line recently from the Liaison team at SY). It has ceased to be a career and is now a job. Speak to studes at SY, and ask them their plans, and the answers are overwhelmingly along the lines of 'I'll do this for 6 years or so, then leave and do something else'. You can count those who view the RAF as a long term career on the fingers of one foot. I work with them everyday, and given the future they face, I cannot blame them to be honest. So so Sad. The RAF has been decimated by our Senior Officers - not one of them willing to defend the Service over his pension. We are about flying and aircraft, NOT JPA, IT initiatives or the other bolloc*s we spend millions on. No Harrier, No MPA, SAR going, Merlin going, Sentinel going, DHFS looking to sell 2 Griffins.etc etc. You were right to leave. I was wrong to stay.
Valid points all, but you may have missed the fact that job security (or at least satisfaction) is not a lot better inside at the moment either! The RAF Manning experts chopped 1/2 the studes at SY earlier this year, and have just increased PVR times because they need to stem the outflow as we apparently don't have enough pilots.
But you have to ask for what exactly...Merlin going to Navy (probably), SAR going...somewhere. Leaves Chinnies and the plastic pig. That's it. Not the world you left by a long way - it is currently a desperately sad place to be, and the only certainty we have is that it is going to get worse (and that was the OFFICIAL line recently from the Liaison team at SY). It has ceased to be a career and is now a job. Speak to studes at SY, and ask them their plans, and the answers are overwhelmingly along the lines of 'I'll do this for 6 years or so, then leave and do something else'. You can count those who view the RAF as a long term career on the fingers of one foot. I work with them everyday, and given the future they face, I cannot blame them to be honest. So so Sad. The RAF has been decimated by our Senior Officers - not one of them willing to defend the Service over his pension. We are about flying and aircraft, NOT JPA, IT initiatives or the other bolloc*s we spend millions on. No Harrier, No MPA, SAR going, Merlin going, Sentinel going, DHFS looking to sell 2 Griffins.etc etc. You were right to leave. I was wrong to stay.
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Jayteeto
Offshore has certainly taken a few recently and are looking for more, SAR is still taking people, and by no means all overseas are crap. Some of them are spectacular in terms of wage and lifestyle.
Your mate who didn't get the Jet2 job is being sour as most of the ex mil guys are getting the Type Rating for free after a bit of negotiation, so something doesn't ring true with his dit.
Offshore has certainly taken a few recently and are looking for more, SAR is still taking people, and by no means all overseas are crap. Some of them are spectacular in terms of wage and lifestyle.
Your mate who didn't get the Jet2 job is being sour as most of the ex mil guys are getting the Type Rating for free after a bit of negotiation, so something doesn't ring true with his dit.
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Jayteeto,
I know 6 ex-mil guy who have joined Jet2 since Nov last year and they were all bonded for 3 years for there TR, i.e. none of them had to pay anything up front. Of those people joining from other backgrounds and experience some have had to pay upfront for all costs and some for a proportion.
Regards
I know 6 ex-mil guy who have joined Jet2 since Nov last year and they were all bonded for 3 years for there TR, i.e. none of them had to pay anything up front. Of those people joining from other backgrounds and experience some have had to pay upfront for all costs and some for a proportion.
Regards
Regarding the rotary pilot situation, I heard a rumour the other day that all of the surviving post-SDSR studes who were holding for DHFS are being restreamed to either Linton or Cranwell, as DHFS has temporarily closed its doors to all ab initios.
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The rumour I have heard from DHFS is that 5 FBH MEARW Instructors are being made redundant and that 2 of 11 Griffin are being sold. If 2 x Griffin are to go then the present fleet of S-I-X-T-Y R-U-L-E O-K (11 helicopters) will need to loose two letters. The quick fix would be to loose O & K but there must be a Ppruner who can lose two letters and rearrange the fleet to befit something more appropriate for todays Rotary School of Excellence.
On a more serious note; 5 staff and two cabs in percentage of overall fleet terms is quite draconian, especially as normally civilian contracts are paid for up front. But if FBH are finals for the history book with the advent of MFTS Rotary it could be that goodwill has long gone in favour of 'Thats business'.
On a more serious note; 5 staff and two cabs in percentage of overall fleet terms is quite draconian, especially as normally civilian contracts are paid for up front. But if FBH are finals for the history book with the advent of MFTS Rotary it could be that goodwill has long gone in favour of 'Thats business'.
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Blow at RAF Shawbury as training staff axed
FB Heliservices, a defence contractor which has a base at RAF Shawbury, has announced it is making six helicopter training pilots and aircrew compulsorily redundant.
A further two roles are to be axed at RAF Valley on Anglesey, where Prince William is now based as a Flight Lieutenant.
Company director James Goodbourn said the cuts would leave 23 pilots in its employment at RAF Shawbury, in addition to the pilot flying instructors already employed directly by the military.
A further two roles are to be axed at RAF Valley on Anglesey, where Prince William is now based as a Flight Lieutenant.
Company director James Goodbourn said the cuts would leave 23 pilots in its employment at RAF Shawbury, in addition to the pilot flying instructors already employed directly by the military.
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And worse it becomes...
RAF Students at Shawbury briefed yesterday. Bad news all round. Those finishing 660/705 (Squirrel) will hold for at least 18 months before starting the MEARW (60Sqn Cse) on the Griffin. The frontline simply cannot train them - no serviceable aircraft, and no slots. 35 Students post EFT creamed off to rotary will now be sent back down to Multi's (where there is a job, albeit really boring) or worse still, fast jets - an absolute slap in the face for someone who joined to do a job and was going to the sharp end.
An 18 month hold for a student with 60 hrs is a killer - they will not have enough experience to retain their skills - after 18 mths they should start again, and no, a refresher is NOT adequate. Yet again standards drop, a lesser end result is accepted, and our wonderful senior officers sign off on it.
Good job we have the cadre of instructors to keep them up to speed. Oh wait - we will have so few students that QHI's will be sent to the Army to keep current - teaching at Wallop. Before you lynch me - I have the very highest regard for the AAC, it's pilots and QHI's - supremely capable all, but it is worthy of mention that the RAF will be looking to the Army to keep its pilots current and proficient. This is gen.
The RAF is dying. It is in that horrible state, lying in bed, diseased and pained, knowing itself the end is nigh. It looks to friends for reassurance, but they look away, afraid to betray their feelings.
If you have an option, I believe now is the time. The ship is sinking. Rats may desert the ship, but Bader jumped out when the aircraft was doomed too - there is no stigma.
An 18 month hold for a student with 60 hrs is a killer - they will not have enough experience to retain their skills - after 18 mths they should start again, and no, a refresher is NOT adequate. Yet again standards drop, a lesser end result is accepted, and our wonderful senior officers sign off on it.
Good job we have the cadre of instructors to keep them up to speed. Oh wait - we will have so few students that QHI's will be sent to the Army to keep current - teaching at Wallop. Before you lynch me - I have the very highest regard for the AAC, it's pilots and QHI's - supremely capable all, but it is worthy of mention that the RAF will be looking to the Army to keep its pilots current and proficient. This is gen.
The RAF is dying. It is in that horrible state, lying in bed, diseased and pained, knowing itself the end is nigh. It looks to friends for reassurance, but they look away, afraid to betray their feelings.
If you have an option, I believe now is the time. The ship is sinking. Rats may desert the ship, but Bader jumped out when the aircraft was doomed too - there is no stigma.
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Can't wait till next week, hope I'm one of the lucky few volunteers(according to diaspora). A few worried people here in Northern Europe, the message is expect bad news: volunteer be damned, don't volunteer be damned. All under control..............
For those planning to leave - don't under-estimate your market potential.
I can't talk about the flying industry, but the majority of those leaving the RAF over the next year will be ground-based branch and trades people. Having spent the last year cultivating a network of City contacts, albeit from afar, I have been told-off by several of them when enquiring for jobs they feel are well below my capabilities. In sum - if you are a senior officer, bid for 'director' posts; junior officer/WO - 'senior manager' slots etc. Spread your love around a number of recruiting agencies, but realise that they don't work for you. Moreover, you are likely to get a higher remuneration package applying directly to potential employers. Circulate your CV (and cover letters) to your contacts and accept criticism on the chin - after all, they are trying to help you.
Times are tough out there, but there is an enormous amount of goodwill being extended to Service personnel. That might be sufficient to get your first foot-hold - and after then, well, it's up to the individual.
For those who will receive news on 1 september, good luck and see it as an opportunity to exploit your potential. After all, we have all been through much harder selectron and training programmes than almost anyone outside of the services - and we passed! In comparison, getting a 'civvie' job should be a doddle!
I can't talk about the flying industry, but the majority of those leaving the RAF over the next year will be ground-based branch and trades people. Having spent the last year cultivating a network of City contacts, albeit from afar, I have been told-off by several of them when enquiring for jobs they feel are well below my capabilities. In sum - if you are a senior officer, bid for 'director' posts; junior officer/WO - 'senior manager' slots etc. Spread your love around a number of recruiting agencies, but realise that they don't work for you. Moreover, you are likely to get a higher remuneration package applying directly to potential employers. Circulate your CV (and cover letters) to your contacts and accept criticism on the chin - after all, they are trying to help you.
Times are tough out there, but there is an enormous amount of goodwill being extended to Service personnel. That might be sufficient to get your first foot-hold - and after then, well, it's up to the individual.
For those who will receive news on 1 september, good luck and see it as an opportunity to exploit your potential. After all, we have all been through much harder selectron and training programmes than almost anyone outside of the services - and we passed! In comparison, getting a 'civvie' job should be a doddle!
I think 'selection and maintenance of the aim' is the order of the day-and the aim is to get a job do the 'boring' type of flying you have described
luchboxlegend - Room parties - It only becomes tedious when you are outnumbered ten to two by girls who are all young enough to be your daughter. 
Some years ago, the captain and navigator, a couple of ageing lotharios of the VC10 world, were staying in the same hotel as a ba crew. Fancying their chances, they spotted the ba captain and announced that they were having a room party, to which the ba crew were welcome. "....and bring the cabin crew as well"......
The party was going well, but the two lounge lizards were being rather restrained, so that they wouldn't appear uncouth in front of the ba crew. Who hadn't yet turned up. Then there was a knock on the door and a couple of gel-haired cabin crew in tight shirts and leather trousers appeared. "Ooh, is this the party room? Hello, dears, I'm Nigel and this is my friend Justin".
Whereupon most of the Vc10 crew necked their drinks and made their excuses. As he left the Air Engineer (it had to be!) called out in a loud voice "Don't fancy yours much, Captain!".....
Mind you, I do recall a much more interesting encounter with a ba TriShaw crew in Bermuda....
The party was going well, but the two lounge lizards were being rather restrained, so that they wouldn't appear uncouth in front of the ba crew. Who hadn't yet turned up. Then there was a knock on the door and a couple of gel-haired cabin crew in tight shirts and leather trousers appeared. "Ooh, is this the party room? Hello, dears, I'm Nigel and this is my friend Justin".
Whereupon most of the Vc10 crew necked their drinks and made their excuses. As he left the Air Engineer (it had to be!) called out in a loud voice "Don't fancy yours much, Captain!".....
Mind you, I do recall a much more interesting encounter with a ba TriShaw crew in Bermuda....
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Combined RAF VC10 and BA crew party in India. Flt Eng went in to the bathroom followed seconds later by a BA woofter. I said to the BA capt this is going to be interesting just as the chap came flying out with a bloody nose.
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CASBO,
Virtually every thread in here ends up in the manner you describe, the whole forum is populated with sad sorry civilians who simply can't let go and feel obliged to witter on about the "good old days"
The likelihood in here of a military thread for military folk with only military folk commenting is like hens ******* teeth, it's about time the Mods changed the forum title to
Military Aircrew a forum for military, sad sorry ex military folk who have not been able to find a life outside the military and need to use Pprune as a social crutch, any other sad ****er with even the most tenuous link to the military and those who love the whoosh that aircraft make.
Just about covers the daily input to this forum
Virtually every thread in here ends up in the manner you describe, the whole forum is populated with sad sorry civilians who simply can't let go and feel obliged to witter on about the "good old days"
The likelihood in here of a military thread for military folk with only military folk commenting is like hens ******* teeth, it's about time the Mods changed the forum title to
Military Aircrew a forum for military, sad sorry ex military folk who have not been able to find a life outside the military and need to use Pprune as a social crutch, any other sad ****er with even the most tenuous link to the military and those who love the whoosh that aircraft make.
Just about covers the daily input to this forum