Nimrod Information
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TD said
...hmmm...
the rest was
I took the NHS to court and won because they had failed to do a risk assesment on my job and I was attacked and almost killed.
I was a health and Safety rep for 15 years before I had to leave the NHS as a result of the attack.
I was a health and Safety rep for 15 years before I had to leave the NHS as a result of the attack.
the rest was
Do they know me No do they know my background No.
My grandfather was a magistrate, my brother until recently was a magistrate one of my surviving sons is a counter fraud investigator.
People used to reading though piles of document ,people who know the law.
My grandfather was a magistrate, my brother until recently was a magistrate one of my surviving sons is a counter fraud investigator.
People used to reading though piles of document ,people who know the law.
Last edited by OilCan; 1st Nov 2007 at 16:45. Reason: quote removed by TD!
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It was made available to my father in reponse to a FoI request.
Initially the request was rejected on the basis that the report was commercially sensitive, then someone had a change of heart and supplied it!
I will let you draw your own conclusions a to the reason for the change of heart.
Initially the request was rejected on the basis that the report was commercially sensitive, then someone had a change of heart and supplied it!
I will let you draw your own conclusions a to the reason for the change of heart.
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i should add that it's not just one document, it's numerous documents all of which are very legnthy.
What I have read of them makes for very sombre reading indeed, I'm sure that they will be mentioned a great deal more in the coming weeks and months as we move from the BoI into the Coronors Inquest.
What I have read of them makes for very sombre reading indeed, I'm sure that they will be mentioned a great deal more in the coming weeks and months as we move from the BoI into the Coronors Inquest.
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Mad Mark said
Also, there are facts and there are facts. The Nimrod suffers from fuel leaks FACT
A vast majority of those fuel leaks are nothing more than slight seeps FACT
The media are quick to headline the number of fuel leaks reported but give no mention of exactly what is classed as a leak and what percentage of all those reported were acceptable FACT
Much of what has been posted on here is pure rumour and speculation - and in response to your last post ("Rumours ? Everything I have said I have written documented proof of"), I did not say that what you had posted was rumourFACT
A post stating that a rib 7 fuel leak resulted in fuel pooling in the bomb bay is pure rumour and is bollox FACT
Other families saying that all the media coverage only brings back the pain when THEY are trying to grieve in their own way FACT
Several posters on here now SFA about the Nimrod, but spout off like experts FACT
As someone that flies in the Nimrod I applaud you for trying to raise important issues, such as the need for bomb bay and fuel tank fire suppressant systems - I may be very grateful one day.
As someone that had several friends on board I understand your pain. But I am also fully aware and understand the pain that all this is causing to the families of those others that were lost. All I asked was that speculations, facts and rumours are kept out of the media until you know the BOI results and whether or not their findings need to be challenged. Although the recent Sky News reports did contain facts they did not report ALL the facts and were, hence, very misleading.
The day that story aired I saw more people at Kinloss that were hacked off with the report than those in support of it - because they knew the rest of the facts. FACT
MadMark!!!
Here here!
An eliquently put post.
(Oh that hurt)
Also, there are facts and there are facts. The Nimrod suffers from fuel leaks FACT
A vast majority of those fuel leaks are nothing more than slight seeps FACT
The media are quick to headline the number of fuel leaks reported but give no mention of exactly what is classed as a leak and what percentage of all those reported were acceptable FACT
Much of what has been posted on here is pure rumour and speculation - and in response to your last post ("Rumours ? Everything I have said I have written documented proof of"), I did not say that what you had posted was rumourFACT
A post stating that a rib 7 fuel leak resulted in fuel pooling in the bomb bay is pure rumour and is bollox FACT
Other families saying that all the media coverage only brings back the pain when THEY are trying to grieve in their own way FACT
Several posters on here now SFA about the Nimrod, but spout off like experts FACT
As someone that flies in the Nimrod I applaud you for trying to raise important issues, such as the need for bomb bay and fuel tank fire suppressant systems - I may be very grateful one day.
As someone that had several friends on board I understand your pain. But I am also fully aware and understand the pain that all this is causing to the families of those others that were lost. All I asked was that speculations, facts and rumours are kept out of the media until you know the BOI results and whether or not their findings need to be challenged. Although the recent Sky News reports did contain facts they did not report ALL the facts and were, hence, very misleading.
The day that story aired I saw more people at Kinloss that were hacked off with the report than those in support of it - because they knew the rest of the facts. FACT
MadMark!!!
Here here!
An eliquently put post.
(Oh that hurt)
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I do not want to appear disrespectful, this is not my intention now or ever.
TD, you are a grieving father and this crusade which you have set yourself upon has all come about because of the loss of your son. I am sure that at points over the years your son would have made comments to you about frustration towards problems on the fleet, and yet no fight took place back then to ensure the safety of the crew who flew on them, or to protect the morale and emotional stability of all those who work on the Nimrod line, or to protect are own.
I was aware of my loved ones frustration, and yet he still had the confidence to step on board the Nimrod, he had the confidence in the ground crews abilities. They must all have had that same confidence or they would not have flown the Nimrod for so many years. If not for the accident, they would still be choosing to fly and still showing that same confidence, I share his confidence.
It has been said to me in this thread several times, that if I do not want to see or hear the speculation then to simply not use this forum, if it was contained to a rumour network then that would be a possibility, however, the speculation has been a constant appearance in the media, newspapers, television, radio ect. It has been an impossible feat to keep it away, it is this which has caused the calls to cease the speculation.
Some people here may believe that what they say is in no way specualtion to the cause or events, however, when someone is so emotionally involved in a tragic event such as this, any opinion given from an experienced person may be conceived as being based on fact.
Yes we have been told of a bomb bay fire, we have been informed of a fuel leak, this was done so right at the start, what none of us know is why. I wait for the BOI because I am only interested in fact, never in what could have been. The "could have beens" are for my nightmares only but have no part in my reality.
The reality is that 14 men died that day, they are not the first to have died and they have not been the last, none of them, no matter what, will be coming back, nothing can bring them back. If anything can be used to help prevent more deaths, it will only be points based on fact.
TD, you are a grieving father and this crusade which you have set yourself upon has all come about because of the loss of your son. I am sure that at points over the years your son would have made comments to you about frustration towards problems on the fleet, and yet no fight took place back then to ensure the safety of the crew who flew on them, or to protect the morale and emotional stability of all those who work on the Nimrod line, or to protect are own.
I was aware of my loved ones frustration, and yet he still had the confidence to step on board the Nimrod, he had the confidence in the ground crews abilities. They must all have had that same confidence or they would not have flown the Nimrod for so many years. If not for the accident, they would still be choosing to fly and still showing that same confidence, I share his confidence.
It has been said to me in this thread several times, that if I do not want to see or hear the speculation then to simply not use this forum, if it was contained to a rumour network then that would be a possibility, however, the speculation has been a constant appearance in the media, newspapers, television, radio ect. It has been an impossible feat to keep it away, it is this which has caused the calls to cease the speculation.
Some people here may believe that what they say is in no way specualtion to the cause or events, however, when someone is so emotionally involved in a tragic event such as this, any opinion given from an experienced person may be conceived as being based on fact.
Yes we have been told of a bomb bay fire, we have been informed of a fuel leak, this was done so right at the start, what none of us know is why. I wait for the BOI because I am only interested in fact, never in what could have been. The "could have beens" are for my nightmares only but have no part in my reality.
The reality is that 14 men died that day, they are not the first to have died and they have not been the last, none of them, no matter what, will be coming back, nothing can bring them back. If anything can be used to help prevent more deaths, it will only be points based on fact.
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TD, unfortunately for you in your quest to find the truth you may end up using information from this RUMOUR forum when you have been at pains to present facts. A lot of people can post on this forum with varying degrees of knowledge and so comments can be varying from copperbottomed, to crew room chat to a Mate in the workshop told me variety. I beg you to consider all the information you use and get advice as to it's accuracy from someone who knows.
The comment at post 1249 made a comment on the ditching of XW666 and the BOI....
one of the points that came out of that BoI was a weight restriction to be placed on the back end crew as a result of a seat detaching from the floor on impact.....
may be a point you would wish to use to show that BOIs do not act on reccomendations.
I have a copy of this BOI, along with many other BOIs, in front of me.
Conclusions of the board, part2, para 56 contains the recommendations. There is no comment whatsoever on the placing of a weight restriction on the crew.
Part 56r does say that "The applicability, to military aircrew, of the airman weight factor used in current rear seat stress tests be determined." So not that crews should be lighter but that the weight used in seat stress tests should be looked at again. Probably ought to be raised as RAF rear crew are generally bigger now than in 1960s when the seat tests were initially carried out. A small point but if you were to quote incorrect statements in one part then they will use it to rubbish all your statements.
There may have been internal Sqn or other reports about rear crew weight and other instructions but it was not in the BOI so it is false to say a recommendation was not taken up.
As always I wish you the best in finding out the truth.
The comment at post 1249 made a comment on the ditching of XW666 and the BOI....
one of the points that came out of that BoI was a weight restriction to be placed on the back end crew as a result of a seat detaching from the floor on impact.....
may be a point you would wish to use to show that BOIs do not act on reccomendations.
I have a copy of this BOI, along with many other BOIs, in front of me.
Conclusions of the board, part2, para 56 contains the recommendations. There is no comment whatsoever on the placing of a weight restriction on the crew.
Part 56r does say that "The applicability, to military aircrew, of the airman weight factor used in current rear seat stress tests be determined." So not that crews should be lighter but that the weight used in seat stress tests should be looked at again. Probably ought to be raised as RAF rear crew are generally bigger now than in 1960s when the seat tests were initially carried out. A small point but if you were to quote incorrect statements in one part then they will use it to rubbish all your statements.
There may have been internal Sqn or other reports about rear crew weight and other instructions but it was not in the BOI so it is false to say a recommendation was not taken up.
As always I wish you the best in finding out the truth.
IIRC, there were also recommendations made for the protection of all crews in ME aircraft in the Accident Report which concerned the Nimrod accident causes by massive birdstrike at Kinloss.
Were these acted upon?
No.
Were these acted upon?
No.
BEagle you mentioned:
What form of recommendation and protection would provide 'protection of all crews in ME aircraft' that a BOI could/would recommend be applied to an aircraft to protect all crews from a multiple birdstrike. I realise this is off topic slightly, but I was just puzzled.
IIRC, there were also recommendations made for the protection of all crews in ME aircraft in the Accident Report which concerned the Nimrod accident causes by massive birdstrike at Kinloss.
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well said
well said labqueen and mad mark,..all any of us want is the truth,but it seems that TD uses the media to air his views at a time when others wish to greive in private.
all i am asking is for this media speculation to stop for the sake of the other families invloved,even i wont talk about it on here but this network seems the place where everyone is talking.
wait for the BOI,then ask the questions.
all i am asking is for this media speculation to stop for the sake of the other families invloved,even i wont talk about it on here but this network seems the place where everyone is talking.
wait for the BOI,then ask the questions.
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i hope for all of your sakes that the BoI comes soon and IS truthful and all recommendations come about without incessant pressure from any of you. sadly i have been on both sides of the arguement, i have been saddened and shocked, distressed and distraught at seeing my loved ones face on the news or spoken about in other formats. sometimes, that has been becuase of me. there is nothing that will bring back our loved ones...ever. BUT we know how soul destroying the loss of our loved ones is, but as much as we want the truth, indeed have a right to the truth, the thought of sitting back and letting others potentially be out at a risk they need/should not be and the thought of anyone else going through the living hell we endure is sometimes enough of a drive to try and find out what the hell is happening. lab queen, you really gave me food for thought with your post re the confidence of your loved one. i am sad to say through experience though that yes the BoI does end up at least putting an end to the nightmare scenarios that run through your head,but it opens another box of demons. it also does not mean that by any long shot that you have the answers...or as someone said a step towards the coroners court. i'm still waiting and it will be 3 yrs b4 we actually get to the inquest.
we are united as were our loved ones in death. we must all stick together. i wish i could help to take the pain away. i wish i could make it better, but i'm afraid this is it.
sending you all hugs. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
we are united as were our loved ones in death. we must all stick together. i wish i could help to take the pain away. i wish i could make it better, but i'm afraid this is it.
sending you all hugs. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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I do not want for anyone to have to face the loss of a loved one, and if that can be prevented by providing the correct safety measures and equipment for our forces, it is something which I will back 100%, I have always had and always will have the utmost respect for our forces and for the work they do.
A call for an end to the speculation in the media is not saying that nothing should be done to give them what is required, it is purely and simply that no changes can be brought about without having the facts to back it up. Once the BOI has been presented then questions may be asked as then and only then, can they be informed questions and with a direction to aim for.
Until the BOI, we don't know what needs to be asked or what needs to be addressed.
I have a fantastic VO, a man who has tried to prepare me as best he can to face each and every obstacle along this tragic journey. He's not just my VO, he was also a good friend to my lost one, he flew with him and shared many memories with him. I know he, and many men such as him, I'd chance to say most if not all at ISK or who work with the Nimrods, want to know the true facts and want to know that this can and will be prevented from happening again. We all have an interest in the outcome.
Please remember that while we all want to know why our men died, why we feel so empty and alone and why so many children cry, we are grieving for those lost and we all wish to do so in our own way.
A call for an end to the speculation in the media is not saying that nothing should be done to give them what is required, it is purely and simply that no changes can be brought about without having the facts to back it up. Once the BOI has been presented then questions may be asked as then and only then, can they be informed questions and with a direction to aim for.
Until the BOI, we don't know what needs to be asked or what needs to be addressed.
I have a fantastic VO, a man who has tried to prepare me as best he can to face each and every obstacle along this tragic journey. He's not just my VO, he was also a good friend to my lost one, he flew with him and shared many memories with him. I know he, and many men such as him, I'd chance to say most if not all at ISK or who work with the Nimrods, want to know the true facts and want to know that this can and will be prevented from happening again. We all have an interest in the outcome.
Please remember that while we all want to know why our men died, why we feel so empty and alone and why so many children cry, we are grieving for those lost and we all wish to do so in our own way.
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Confidence
Lab Queen
I too know my loved ones wishes. All he ever wanted was to fly on the plane he chose. His attitude toward it was one of great affection and he had great confidence in its capabilities as well as knowing its shortfalls, and of the crew. He would have been horrified by all the dreadful comments that are made - after all they were warm living human beings and sometimes it seems thay have been reduced to nothing more than subjects in a discussion of technical value.
For those of us left behind, we close our doors at night and we have no one to discuss the days events with, or share the childrens knocks and joys, or even just cuddle up to at night. Shopping without them is such a nightmare, it sounds silly but choosing for one and/or the kids is isolating and I find those who have someone to go home to and do all of those things simply don't understand the misery of being alone.
Whatever you think of the BoI, it is the first step and to dismiss before it has arrived is a fools way forward. All arguments must have a basis and only an idiot will presume to know more than the experts, especially before publication.
Strength comes in many different ways, through courage, through fighting, through getting to the end of each day. We need to be together and yet at a time when we need each other most there are those who will split asunder. Don't let it happen. God Bless
Much love
TOH
I too know my loved ones wishes. All he ever wanted was to fly on the plane he chose. His attitude toward it was one of great affection and he had great confidence in its capabilities as well as knowing its shortfalls, and of the crew. He would have been horrified by all the dreadful comments that are made - after all they were warm living human beings and sometimes it seems thay have been reduced to nothing more than subjects in a discussion of technical value.
For those of us left behind, we close our doors at night and we have no one to discuss the days events with, or share the childrens knocks and joys, or even just cuddle up to at night. Shopping without them is such a nightmare, it sounds silly but choosing for one and/or the kids is isolating and I find those who have someone to go home to and do all of those things simply don't understand the misery of being alone.
Whatever you think of the BoI, it is the first step and to dismiss before it has arrived is a fools way forward. All arguments must have a basis and only an idiot will presume to know more than the experts, especially before publication.
Strength comes in many different ways, through courage, through fighting, through getting to the end of each day. We need to be together and yet at a time when we need each other most there are those who will split asunder. Don't let it happen. God Bless
Much love
TOH
Forum Rules
………“The Professional Pilots Rumour Network (PPRuNe) is a community of professional pilots and people who work in aviation, both experienced and inexperienced. Your behaviour here, and ours, can be summed up in four words: “Mi casa, su casa” (my house is your house).
The PPRuNe Forums are a place where it's okay to be yourself as long as you always act with respect for your fellow members as well as PPRuNe staff. Our goal will be to treat our members as we would wish to be treated. In return, we ask that you act here as you would if you were face to face with the other members. You are not expected to leave your personality at the door. There are going to be topics and discussions that will have heated debates. Please think before you post and re-read what you type before you post it. Keep your comments limited to the debate at hand and do not make this a personal issue between you and another member.
There is tremendous diversity in age, race, gender, language, location (worldwide). There will be a lot of varying opinions on different subjects. We're all human beings and we're all drawn to this site because we have a common bond as pilots, cabin crew, air traffic controllers, engineers, technicians or just interested parties………..”
Maybe some will see me as being a tad insensitive here but I reserve that right.
If some are not happy with people contacting the press & the press reporting of perceived issues why make the request not to do so on pprune?
Free speech and debate is allowed in this country, as is the right to speculate and discuss. In all but a few instances this is done respectfully on pprune and I would venture to suggest, by persons with not a little experience of HM Royal Air Force and it’s idiosyncrasies.
There have been 3 threads majoring on the subject of XV230:
Nimrod crash in Afghanistan Tech/Info/Discussion (NOT condolences)
Nimrod plane crash in Afghanistan - Condolences thread (no tech or update info)
Nimrod Information / Panorama Mon 4th June (Merged)
Perhaps it would have been better if there were only 2, however, there are 3. Why seek to fetter one because of what the national press decides to report?
Don’t get me wrong here…. I have the utmost sympathy with those left grieving and my heart goes out to you… but the debate will & must continue.
As for the BOI….. Whatever the BOI report will be questioned, quite possibly ad infinitum because of the very nature of the system & the way they are convened. How many AAIB reports get lambasted?
………“The Professional Pilots Rumour Network (PPRuNe) is a community of professional pilots and people who work in aviation, both experienced and inexperienced. Your behaviour here, and ours, can be summed up in four words: “Mi casa, su casa” (my house is your house).
The PPRuNe Forums are a place where it's okay to be yourself as long as you always act with respect for your fellow members as well as PPRuNe staff. Our goal will be to treat our members as we would wish to be treated. In return, we ask that you act here as you would if you were face to face with the other members. You are not expected to leave your personality at the door. There are going to be topics and discussions that will have heated debates. Please think before you post and re-read what you type before you post it. Keep your comments limited to the debate at hand and do not make this a personal issue between you and another member.
There is tremendous diversity in age, race, gender, language, location (worldwide). There will be a lot of varying opinions on different subjects. We're all human beings and we're all drawn to this site because we have a common bond as pilots, cabin crew, air traffic controllers, engineers, technicians or just interested parties………..”
Maybe some will see me as being a tad insensitive here but I reserve that right.
If some are not happy with people contacting the press & the press reporting of perceived issues why make the request not to do so on pprune?
Free speech and debate is allowed in this country, as is the right to speculate and discuss. In all but a few instances this is done respectfully on pprune and I would venture to suggest, by persons with not a little experience of HM Royal Air Force and it’s idiosyncrasies.
There have been 3 threads majoring on the subject of XV230:
Nimrod crash in Afghanistan Tech/Info/Discussion (NOT condolences)
Nimrod plane crash in Afghanistan - Condolences thread (no tech or update info)
Nimrod Information / Panorama Mon 4th June (Merged)
Perhaps it would have been better if there were only 2, however, there are 3. Why seek to fetter one because of what the national press decides to report?
Don’t get me wrong here…. I have the utmost sympathy with those left grieving and my heart goes out to you… but the debate will & must continue.
As for the BOI….. Whatever the BOI report will be questioned, quite possibly ad infinitum because of the very nature of the system & the way they are convened. How many AAIB reports get lambasted?
WasNaeMe wrote:
Very few, and a telling point. Of course, AAIB reports are part of an independent Airworthiness system, BOI reports are not.
How many AAIB reports get lambasted?
Very few, and a telling point. Of course, AAIB reports are part of an independent Airworthiness system, BOI reports are not.
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the other half, i totally and wholeheartedly agree that we must all stick together. we are still members of the military family and must draw strength from each other and give strength to each other.
i may be bereaved through a losing someone so very special through a different crash, but my door is always open, my shoulder always ready to cry on. i extend that to jan66 and of course lab queen you already know that. you will be in my thoughts when the BoI comes. i just hope for your sake it is soon.
take lots of care. i am so very sorry for your loss and pain. if you wish PM me and i will give you my email.
lots of cyber hugs
i may be bereaved through a losing someone so very special through a different crash, but my door is always open, my shoulder always ready to cry on. i extend that to jan66 and of course lab queen you already know that. you will be in my thoughts when the BoI comes. i just hope for your sake it is soon.
take lots of care. i am so very sorry for your loss and pain. if you wish PM me and i will give you my email.
lots of cyber hugs
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Lab Queen,
I understand completely that the speculation over the cause of the crash is not helpful and that this thread may not help the greiving process. However, it exists primarily to answer two questions:
a. Why did XV230 crash? This is needed for closure, although it will not change the past and is based on a fair amount of speculation (a great deal of which is inaccurate). The BoI SHOULD provide the facts and comprehensive recommendations, but with political pressure this MAY not be the case.
b. Can the risk be reduced? This is incredibly important for the safety of current and future Nimrod crews. I am certain that raising the profile of the case will make it more difficult for the MoD to ignore the fact that modifications need to be made to the MR2 and MRA4 to reduce the risk to crews.
I understand completely that the speculation over the cause of the crash is not helpful and that this thread may not help the greiving process. However, it exists primarily to answer two questions:
a. Why did XV230 crash? This is needed for closure, although it will not change the past and is based on a fair amount of speculation (a great deal of which is inaccurate). The BoI SHOULD provide the facts and comprehensive recommendations, but with political pressure this MAY not be the case.
b. Can the risk be reduced? This is incredibly important for the safety of current and future Nimrod crews. I am certain that raising the profile of the case will make it more difficult for the MoD to ignore the fact that modifications need to be made to the MR2 and MRA4 to reduce the risk to crews.
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Mr Point
You say this thread is here to answer these two questions
a. Why did XV230 crash? This is needed for closure, although it will not change the past and is based on a fair amount of speculation (a great deal of which is inaccurate). The BoI SHOULD provide the facts and comprehensive recommendations, but with political pressure this MAY not be the case.
b. Can the risk be reduced? This is incredibly important for the safety of current and future Nimrod crews. I am certain that raising the profile of the case will make it more difficult for the MoD to ignore the fact that modifications need to be made to the MR2 and MRA4 to reduce the risk to crews.
Lets see then, with regards to question a, can anybody here say without doubt or heresay, guessing or speculation exactly what happened on board XV230 on september 2nd 2006 to cause the explosion. Yes there was a bomb bay fire, yes there was a fuel leak, how many of you were actually there and actually do know to be able to give a fully informed answer as to exactly why. It is only speculation otherwise.
With regards to b, that can not be answered until (a) has an answer as we do not know exactly what has to be changed to reduce those risks.
With any incident there will always be speculation, to involve the media in this actually takes the attention away from the real meaning behind what happened, especially when some things have been misleading. Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf, this may have the same effect, when there are so many ideas and guesswork going on, and so many of them hitting the media, the true facts of what happened can be overshadowed by what is false.
As I have said repeatedly, if you want change, you need the facts.
To answer the point made by another about why ask on pprune, simply because I choose not to approach the media, as the majority of the families involved have also chosen, I respect my families privacy and the other families privacy while they grieve, I also choose not to give my identity here as I have been made aware the media do use this site.
Now let me be blunt. If it were you who was blown to bits, how would you feel about knowing your family and loved ones are having all the details spread through the media. Turn on the TV, pick up a newspaper, turn on the radio, and then think if this was you, would you want your children, wife, mother, sisters or brothers hearing so many details. It's not just the plane, there were real men on board with real families and real lives now reduced to this.
You say this thread is here to answer these two questions
a. Why did XV230 crash? This is needed for closure, although it will not change the past and is based on a fair amount of speculation (a great deal of which is inaccurate). The BoI SHOULD provide the facts and comprehensive recommendations, but with political pressure this MAY not be the case.
b. Can the risk be reduced? This is incredibly important for the safety of current and future Nimrod crews. I am certain that raising the profile of the case will make it more difficult for the MoD to ignore the fact that modifications need to be made to the MR2 and MRA4 to reduce the risk to crews.
Lets see then, with regards to question a, can anybody here say without doubt or heresay, guessing or speculation exactly what happened on board XV230 on september 2nd 2006 to cause the explosion. Yes there was a bomb bay fire, yes there was a fuel leak, how many of you were actually there and actually do know to be able to give a fully informed answer as to exactly why. It is only speculation otherwise.
With regards to b, that can not be answered until (a) has an answer as we do not know exactly what has to be changed to reduce those risks.
With any incident there will always be speculation, to involve the media in this actually takes the attention away from the real meaning behind what happened, especially when some things have been misleading. Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf, this may have the same effect, when there are so many ideas and guesswork going on, and so many of them hitting the media, the true facts of what happened can be overshadowed by what is false.
As I have said repeatedly, if you want change, you need the facts.
To answer the point made by another about why ask on pprune, simply because I choose not to approach the media, as the majority of the families involved have also chosen, I respect my families privacy and the other families privacy while they grieve, I also choose not to give my identity here as I have been made aware the media do use this site.
Now let me be blunt. If it were you who was blown to bits, how would you feel about knowing your family and loved ones are having all the details spread through the media. Turn on the TV, pick up a newspaper, turn on the radio, and then think if this was you, would you want your children, wife, mother, sisters or brothers hearing so many details. It's not just the plane, there were real men on board with real families and real lives now reduced to this.
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Laboratoryqueen:
If I had been on the aircraft I would not like my family to see the media coverage. However, I would be far more upset if there was another crash that could have been prevented.
The media are not providing a service to anyone involved with the crash, they have their own goals and objectives, but raising the profile of the accident makes it much more difficult for the MOD to ignore the fact that the Nimrod MR2 needs fire protection in the bomb bay.
Kinloss has suffered enough, the families have suffered enough, and hopefully the BoI will provide suitable recommendations that will be adopted by the RAF to prevent other families feeling your pain. Unfortunately, history has shown the system to be left wanting in the past.
If it were you who was blown to bits, how would you feel about knowing your family and loved ones are having all the details spread through the media
The media are not providing a service to anyone involved with the crash, they have their own goals and objectives, but raising the profile of the accident makes it much more difficult for the MOD to ignore the fact that the Nimrod MR2 needs fire protection in the bomb bay.
Kinloss has suffered enough, the families have suffered enough, and hopefully the BoI will provide suitable recommendations that will be adopted by the RAF to prevent other families feeling your pain. Unfortunately, history has shown the system to be left wanting in the past.