Parliamentary Questions concerning Hercules Safety
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I do not normally get involved with the shenanigans of these forums. But as a close friend and colleague of bob’s and being fully aware of his domestic situation I was so horrified when shown some of the childish incantations and self congratulatory ramblings that have been posted that I must attempt to put the record straight.
Whilst all safety campaigns have merit I am abhorred that anyone particularly a family member could use the private message of a dead hero to further their own ends, especially when she was expressly aware that his fiancée was neither consulted or warned of the radio broadcast of the 2nd of May. How much emotional torture do you think that caused?? This was even more unnecessary considering her stated aims had already been achieved, and Chappie if you are so concerned about, we assume all servicemen’s safety, where were you before 179 went down? Chappie, if you were as close to your brother as you would have us believe, you would have known that he, like many of his colleagues, did not consider ESF to be the “wonder-cure-all” that some people seem to.
Bob flew 50 plus sorties into enemy territory in the knowledge that his aircraft, although slow and lumbering was protected to the best that very limited resources could achieve. I further find some of your posts inconceivable, as being his sister you would obviously know just what an unpretentious and private person Bob was. He would be devastated to think that anyone, especially a member of his family, would use him in such a public manner.
You may dismiss this with your usual contempt, but Bob’s only wish in life was to ensure that his fiancée was safe and was looked after. A few people seem to be eager to destroy his memory and reputation and to do their utmost to ride rough-shod over his wishes. Whatever they take they cannot have the memories of a man who died happy in the knowledge that he had what most of us will never have – a job he loved and the love and support of the woman he chose to spend his life with.
Chappie, considering your total silence before 179 went down, your total disregard for his fiancée and his “step sons” and apparent desire for payment (see quote below) I must question your motives.
Whilst all safety campaigns have merit I am abhorred that anyone particularly a family member could use the private message of a dead hero to further their own ends, especially when she was expressly aware that his fiancée was neither consulted or warned of the radio broadcast of the 2nd of May. How much emotional torture do you think that caused?? This was even more unnecessary considering her stated aims had already been achieved, and Chappie if you are so concerned about, we assume all servicemen’s safety, where were you before 179 went down? Chappie, if you were as close to your brother as you would have us believe, you would have known that he, like many of his colleagues, did not consider ESF to be the “wonder-cure-all” that some people seem to.
Bob flew 50 plus sorties into enemy territory in the knowledge that his aircraft, although slow and lumbering was protected to the best that very limited resources could achieve. I further find some of your posts inconceivable, as being his sister you would obviously know just what an unpretentious and private person Bob was. He would be devastated to think that anyone, especially a member of his family, would use him in such a public manner.
You may dismiss this with your usual contempt, but Bob’s only wish in life was to ensure that his fiancée was safe and was looked after. A few people seem to be eager to destroy his memory and reputation and to do their utmost to ride rough-shod over his wishes. Whatever they take they cannot have the memories of a man who died happy in the knowledge that he had what most of us will never have – a job he loved and the love and support of the woman he chose to spend his life with.
Chappie, considering your total silence before 179 went down, your total disregard for his fiancée and his “step sons” and apparent desire for payment (see quote below) I must question your motives.
Originally Posted by chappie
once this exclusivity period is over i'll be on the phone to lots of papers. it was pointless entering the contract as there was not the coverage she promised me. it didn't even go overseas, which is why i signed. oh well, we all make mistakes i did'nt even get paid. just hassle! sorry for the rant. i needed to vent.
p+f
Nice attempt at thread creep. However if you were a close friend and colleague of Bob's, or any of the crew, you would have known that he, like many of his colleagues, do consider ESF to be an effective defence against small arms and also believe that the only reason it isn't fitted to our aircraft is that the person making the decision as to whether or not to procure it decided it was cheaper to risk the aircraft and personnel on board (especially as they wouldn't actually BE one of the personnel on board).
As to chappie being silent before 179 went down - my family was not aware of the shortcomings in the defensive fit to the aircraft (ie there weren't any) but should something have happened to me and they then discovered a surprising truth I would expect them to kick up a fuss too.
If you are so concerned about your friend and his colleagues then I would expect you to support any program aimed at keeping them safer. If, as I suspect, you're actually sitting behind a desk in MoD trying to destroy the progress of chappie and Nige's campaign then may I suggest you question your own motives, not chappies.
Nice attempt at thread creep. However if you were a close friend and colleague of Bob's, or any of the crew, you would have known that he, like many of his colleagues, do consider ESF to be an effective defence against small arms and also believe that the only reason it isn't fitted to our aircraft is that the person making the decision as to whether or not to procure it decided it was cheaper to risk the aircraft and personnel on board (especially as they wouldn't actually BE one of the personnel on board).
As to chappie being silent before 179 went down - my family was not aware of the shortcomings in the defensive fit to the aircraft (ie there weren't any) but should something have happened to me and they then discovered a surprising truth I would expect them to kick up a fuss too.
If you are so concerned about your friend and his colleagues then I would expect you to support any program aimed at keeping them safer. If, as I suspect, you're actually sitting behind a desk in MoD trying to destroy the progress of chappie and Nige's campaign then may I suggest you question your own motives, not chappies.
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well well, the attempt at thread creep rears it's head again,despite requests that the attepts to make this a personal attack are kept away from the page and left to private messages, you try try again. i do not want to keep this away from the page as i'm ashamed of what i've done...far from it. in fact i'm very proud of what i've acheived. if you want to get caught into a war of words then find someone else, as this family does not air it's dirty laundry in public. i,as have my parents remained tight lipped about the personal and tragic pain endured on a private level to ensure that the memory of bob is treated with the dignity and respect he deserves. this will continue to be the case. i have done nothing to be ashamed of despite your frequent attempts to make it look like i have.
i do not have to justify myself to you, any friend of bob would not ask that of a grieving sister...surely. there seems to be a growing number of posts from one time users who never post again all purporting to be bob's friend. the posts underline the concerns for bob's family yet sadly never mention them. there is no concern for his parents or sister shown and usualy followed up by a blatant misinterpretation of his thoughts and beliefs. you may be some sad desk jockey in the MoD following the orders to discredit the grieving sister of sgt bob o'connor. what's up have i got under your skin? do you have to resort to such underhand tatics that this is what you do? i feel i know the true identity of the perpetrator who is isistent in moving the thread. it saddens me there is stil the need to continue to cause pain to his family. it's time to move on, instead of trying to attack me. i will say only this:
writing your post in large bold writing does not exaggerate your point or draw attention in the correct way i think you had hoped. i see nothing more than a desperate attempt that would be the equivalent to shouting pointlessly loudly at someone in aroom.
i was, like the other family members of the crew, living my life uninformed as to the true risks undertaken by the aircrew of the hercules and the shortages faced by them.
i was nearly over come with laughter at the attempt to show the emotional distress felt by the fiancee bit. how comedic, considering all the pain caused by said person to the family of bob.
the payment issue, yep glad that one reared it's head. it shows desperate clutching at straws as what makes you think the payment is for me? there is a very worthwhile organisation in need of cash and who's to say i have not set about donating it? please do not judge others by the actions in which you enagage.
now, go away, leave us alone and live your life that safe in the knowledge the servicemen of britain and the world wil be protected in the hercules by the end of this campaign.
i do not have to justify myself to you, any friend of bob would not ask that of a grieving sister...surely. there seems to be a growing number of posts from one time users who never post again all purporting to be bob's friend. the posts underline the concerns for bob's family yet sadly never mention them. there is no concern for his parents or sister shown and usualy followed up by a blatant misinterpretation of his thoughts and beliefs. you may be some sad desk jockey in the MoD following the orders to discredit the grieving sister of sgt bob o'connor. what's up have i got under your skin? do you have to resort to such underhand tatics that this is what you do? i feel i know the true identity of the perpetrator who is isistent in moving the thread. it saddens me there is stil the need to continue to cause pain to his family. it's time to move on, instead of trying to attack me. i will say only this:
writing your post in large bold writing does not exaggerate your point or draw attention in the correct way i think you had hoped. i see nothing more than a desperate attempt that would be the equivalent to shouting pointlessly loudly at someone in aroom.
i was, like the other family members of the crew, living my life uninformed as to the true risks undertaken by the aircrew of the hercules and the shortages faced by them.
i was nearly over come with laughter at the attempt to show the emotional distress felt by the fiancee bit. how comedic, considering all the pain caused by said person to the family of bob.
the payment issue, yep glad that one reared it's head. it shows desperate clutching at straws as what makes you think the payment is for me? there is a very worthwhile organisation in need of cash and who's to say i have not set about donating it? please do not judge others by the actions in which you enagage.
now, go away, leave us alone and live your life that safe in the knowledge the servicemen of britain and the world wil be protected in the hercules by the end of this campaign.
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P+F.
As you are probably aware I kicked this thread off in the beginning and had actually decided to sign off recently. I don't know the ins and outs of your disagreement but it really does not help anyone to have a flaming row in public. It certainly does not help the campaign. Please may I ask that you continue your dispute in private. Everyone has their own view on foam. I am not going to open up that argument again. I am worried at the moment because the first aircraft is not due to get foam until September. We are in a bad position in Afg with the possibility of reinforcements being sent in. This might increase the demand for more Hercs and further slow down the fitting of foam. P+F you clearly have an issue, please do not turn this thread into a public slanging match. There is still a lot of work to do for the crews.
Thank you
Nige G
As you are probably aware I kicked this thread off in the beginning and had actually decided to sign off recently. I don't know the ins and outs of your disagreement but it really does not help anyone to have a flaming row in public. It certainly does not help the campaign. Please may I ask that you continue your dispute in private. Everyone has their own view on foam. I am not going to open up that argument again. I am worried at the moment because the first aircraft is not due to get foam until September. We are in a bad position in Afg with the possibility of reinforcements being sent in. This might increase the demand for more Hercs and further slow down the fitting of foam. P+F you clearly have an issue, please do not turn this thread into a public slanging match. There is still a lot of work to do for the crews.
Thank you
Nige G
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chappie,
I understand your reasons, but please try to ignore the likes of P + F, and don't rise to his bait. You can rest assured that those of us reading this forum (and I have absolutely NO truckie background whatsoever) are 110% with you and your friends on this matter.
You are indeed an inspiration to many of us, and I applaud you.
Keep up all the good work, and just try to ignore the likes of P + F.
The Winco
I understand your reasons, but please try to ignore the likes of P + F, and don't rise to his bait. You can rest assured that those of us reading this forum (and I have absolutely NO truckie background whatsoever) are 110% with you and your friends on this matter.
You are indeed an inspiration to many of us, and I applaud you.
Keep up all the good work, and just try to ignore the likes of P + F.
The Winco
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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That may be the case, but now is the time to end it and get back to re-doubling the efforts to protect the Herc force. The are going to need all the help they can get as the Afg Op ramps up over the coming months. I will not accept Afg as an excuse to postpone the rolling foam prog.
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i second, third and fourth that motion. it is with a heavy heart that i posted a reply as it does appear that i am then engaging in a public slanging match. THIS FORUM IS FOR DISCUSSION ABOUT A CAMPAIGN TO SAVE LIVES OF AIRCREW AND PASSENGERS WHO FLY IN BRITISH HERCULES....NOTHING ELSE!i have offered the oppurtunity to discuss any issues away from here. i can give you my absolute promise that i intend not to enter into any more personal discussion. i'm sorry if any of you have felt concerned or let down by my actions.
now, onto matters that do concern us all. i attended a meeting to get support for the petition and now have a number of sheets signed. i endured a verbal lashing from a gentleman form iraq, but each to their own. i soon educated him to my plight and allieviated his concerns. i have managed to arrange some more oppurtunities to talk, therefore getting more signatures. tomorrow, i will be doing more tv and i continue with other media as i was on the radio only the other morning! i have written said letters to blair, browne. i will also be contacting MP's via a round robin asking them to take this fight back into parliament.
thankyou for your support. i hope to be given the chance to move on.
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SPHLC
P+F is 'batting' for the fiancee, I suspect. Whatever the 'family history', it is none of our business and I think we would agree that this thread is most definitely not the place for it to be given an airing.
P+F
You are quite entitled to your opinion but personal attacks are best avoided. Thanks
Chappie
Well done - will PM soon.
P+F is 'batting' for the fiancee, I suspect. Whatever the 'family history', it is none of our business and I think we would agree that this thread is most definitely not the place for it to be given an airing.
P+F
You are quite entitled to your opinion but personal attacks are best avoided. Thanks
Chappie
Well done - will PM soon.
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Quick update from me. HTV West are broadcasting from RIAT a week on Friday. Well worth a watch for anyone in coverage. Slippage is appearing on the foam program. It is important not to let the profile of Hercules safety drop. Things are happening in the background.
Cheers for now,
NG
Cheers for now,
NG
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Sadly, I think we all knew that the foam program would slip...recent experience of that wonderful company in cambridge tell us that. I wouldn't expect any sort of long term servicibilty afterwards to be honest....the old girls are willing but sadly time has caught up with them. I'm sure when we look back we will realise that a 'mod' of this magnitude shouldn't be a 'mod'...it should be initial fit.
Enjoying the view from the ground..
5d2d
Enjoying the view from the ground..
5d2d
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5d2d
If they are not fit for purpose do not send them to war. Aussies fitted J foam retrospectively. I suspect this has more to do with the level of tasking and shortage of frames. MoD never planned to fit foam fleetwide. They are now being caught out by overtasking. Sadly predictable. Afghanistan could well be a lesson in fighting war with an under-resourced and over-stretched military.
If they are not fit for purpose do not send them to war. Aussies fitted J foam retrospectively. I suspect this has more to do with the level of tasking and shortage of frames. MoD never planned to fit foam fleetwide. They are now being caught out by overtasking. Sadly predictable. Afghanistan could well be a lesson in fighting war with an under-resourced and over-stretched military.
Last edited by nigegilb; 5th Jul 2006 at 17:42.
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I have long had a suspicion that there are more to the attacks made on Chappie by the likes of P+F (one post - attack Chappie, never post again). It is so like the tactics of nu improved labour, if you can't win the argument then attack the person.
Chappie, nige , et al - Keep up the good work and hopefully the aircrew and passengers on ALL aircraft will be better protected soon
Chappie, nige , et al - Keep up the good work and hopefully the aircrew and passengers on ALL aircraft will be better protected soon
N4
I think you are correct. In this, and other threads, you can spot the MoD/Government lackeys a mile away. It displays nervousness that one is getting too close to the truth for comfort and is symptomatic of the MoD's bullying culture.
I think you are correct. In this, and other threads, you can spot the MoD/Government lackeys a mile away. It displays nervousness that one is getting too close to the truth for comfort and is symptomatic of the MoD's bullying culture.
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howdy
Hello to all,
As you can tell, this is my first posting....i been keeping up to date with the proceedings on this thread as much as I can.
I just wanted to say your doing a good job in trying to get something done for our guys and girls out there.
Keep it up
P.S Anything I can do?
As you can tell, this is my first posting....i been keeping up to date with the proceedings on this thread as much as I can.
I just wanted to say your doing a good job in trying to get something done for our guys and girls out there.
Keep it up
P.S Anything I can do?
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Originally Posted by SirPeterHardingsLovechild
I post reluctantly, but it is my firm suspicion that pop and fresh is posting in defence of Bob O'Connors Next of Kin.
Any thread creep or baiting started a long time ago.
Any thread creep or baiting started a long time ago.
i find it very sad that almost everyone who has posted since P+F has accused him/her of personally attacking chappie, have any of you stopped to think that P+F is actually trying to inform you all about what has been going on.
you all seem to be very paranoid, as you all seem to jump to the conclusion that P+F is a desk jockey in the MoD, can any of you actually contemplate the fact that P+F might just be a concerned reader?
you are all extremely quick to jump to chappies defence without knowing all the facts of the situation.
to all of you i say this, you are all quite happy to jump to chappies defence without knowing the facts, in future perhaps you would actually consider finding out the facts.
i am not writing this response to argue with anyone, no doubt people will complain about what i have said, but to be honest i dont really care, as i am not bothered by the childish tantrums thrown by grown adults.
I am writing this to express my opinion, after all these forums are supposed to be about freedom of speech.
No, they aren't. This is a private website and freedom of speech is not a right here.
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i'm mad now..........
i've just tried put a post on that was both a direct appeal to the MoD and also about the speaking out of families against the government...but suprise suprise, they were taken off! pathetic attempts from those who read the thread from afar, but are too gutless to join in the debate. you cannot continue to take the gamble with service peoples lives. it is not enough you engage in media sounbites. you need more substance behind the words you say.
i was out on monday at the meeting trying to get support for the campaign. i missed the news, but when i got home i was told that des browne had been on channel four news. he was his usual bumbling self. fluffing his words. apparently he saiid that whatever the troops needed they could have. did anyone see the piece on the news? can you possibly clarify it for me. i also heard that mr blair said in parliament today whatever the troops wanted/needed they could have. if that's the case..please mr blair, can we have foam for our hercules please? the money is there. you just need to start spending it properly. first foam for the hercules. then howabout a full defensive aids system.
the lack of resources needs to be corrected. sadly, another solider has died today in afg. we cannot afford to be there. i received an email today from a father who unfortunately lost his son a few months ago. the speaking out of families is unprecedented. never before has this been done where relatives speak out at the deaths of troops at war. we need to be acknowledged. not treated like a dirty secret to be ashamed of. the more you mistear us, the more we shout.
can i just ask nige is the plane with the foam in september completed and fitted out or is it going to start it's modification programme? i know it's extremely technical and time consuming. i would ask this. if the plane is completed in september when was it started? do not think that doing the programme slowly is a good tactic to get us to give up and go away. we will not.
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Originally Posted by pazmanga
thank you SirPeter someone who see's sense.
The work is scheduled to get done, although it won't happen in an instant. I don't see any further need for derailing this thread.
Congrats to Chappie and Nige for their efforts thus far. I do however think it is time to stop bumping this thread.