Parliamentary Questions concerning Hercules Safety
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While watching CNN yesterday, I noticed that this month’s UK Defence Secretary, Mr Des Browne, was in Afghanistan as part of the crack “brown nose” squad, on roving platitude mouthing duty. About midway through the list was the one about “not letting the people of Afghanistan down again” but there was no sign of the one that concerns “not letting our armed forces down again”. Surely some mistake in the script?
CNN seemed unable to confirm if Mr Browne had arrived in country by RAF transport and, in that event, whether the aircraft had been equipped with DAS/ESF. Do we have any details?
CNN seemed unable to confirm if Mr Browne had arrived in country by RAF transport and, in that event, whether the aircraft had been equipped with DAS/ESF. Do we have any details?
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I don't know what he flew into theatre in. If it was RAF C17 leased from US his tanks were protected. If he flew in RAF Hercules not leased from US he would not have had tanks protected...Ingram admitted in a PQ recently that the first aircraft will be fitted with foam in July this year. It will take a long time to fit the remaining aircraft earmarked for the mod.
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hi chaps, i thought the first herc to be operational will be ready in july not started in july. can someone confirm?
i'm afraid that the PQ question that was being asked will not materialise. i think that the guy who was doing it had maybe got upset that i was being horrible about his buddy des browne. when he lied about meeting me and i said as much i was then off the christmas card list as it were! ho hum.
over 2200 signatures now well done.
i'm afraid that the PQ question that was being asked will not materialise. i think that the guy who was doing it had maybe got upset that i was being horrible about his buddy des browne. when he lied about meeting me and i said as much i was then off the christmas card list as it were! ho hum.
over 2200 signatures now well done.
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Yes you are quite right Chappie completed by July. That is what the Minister said. I have not been able to ascertain if the length of the entire program has been delayed by frame shortages. I think it more likely that frames will be shuffled around. The foam mod is obviously a high priority given the environment crews are operating in.
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i've had my letter back from james gray. he has still to apologise for the comments he made about nigel he has done a complete 360 degree turn. it would seem our mr gray is apparently on side and as such had included the copy of his letter to des browne about the ESF issue. here goes.
i am supportive of the campaign to fit foam suppresant to the hercules fleet, and have for many years campaigned for this. i have recently written to the secretary of state for defence on the issue. i have also taken significant number of actions to assist the families of those who were killed in the hercules XV179 crash last january with such issues as housing and tax credit and i stand to ready to do as much of that as i can in every possibly way.
however i was reluctant to give the impression of taking party political advantage from the foam suppressant issue. that would lead to a degree of biterness in the bereaved families and i am not sure that would achieve any purpose.
all that was typed. at the end he has written by hand something that is impossible to document 100% as it's worse than a dr's scrawl but i think it goes i hope you're contented. he then includes the letter to des.
not the reply i was expecting and yet he still shies away from apaologising for the distress caused by the commnets made towards nige and the campaign. make of this what you will. i'm still unaware of the response to the PQ that was asked on my behalf weeks ago. i'm unable to get in contact with the MP in question. i'll keep you posted.
does anyone get the flight magasine as i want to get the petition into it but i need details etc to contact them, if you can help please PM me. ta!
i am supportive of the campaign to fit foam suppresant to the hercules fleet, and have for many years campaigned for this. i have recently written to the secretary of state for defence on the issue. i have also taken significant number of actions to assist the families of those who were killed in the hercules XV179 crash last january with such issues as housing and tax credit and i stand to ready to do as much of that as i can in every possibly way.
however i was reluctant to give the impression of taking party political advantage from the foam suppressant issue. that would lead to a degree of biterness in the bereaved families and i am not sure that would achieve any purpose.
all that was typed. at the end he has written by hand something that is impossible to document 100% as it's worse than a dr's scrawl but i think it goes i hope you're contented. he then includes the letter to des.
not the reply i was expecting and yet he still shies away from apaologising for the distress caused by the commnets made towards nige and the campaign. make of this what you will. i'm still unaware of the response to the PQ that was asked on my behalf weeks ago. i'm unable to get in contact with the MP in question. i'll keep you posted.
does anyone get the flight magasine as i want to get the petition into it but i need details etc to contact them, if you can help please PM me. ta!
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chappie
Very well done with this response from the MP’s you’ve written to – I’m sure there will be more responses in a similar vein. If you have deciphered James Gray’s scrawled post-script correctly, it will mean that he hopes not to hear from you again, as he considers that he has now done as much as he thinks he can and would like to resume a quiet life – I would suspect that he hasn’t much chance of that, now that he is dealing with you!
If I may respectfully suggest, your very polite reply should include the information that you are extremely grateful for his continued support in this vital matter of national defence and could he see his way towards signing an Early Day Motion when you have found an MP who is prepared to put one down – you never know, he might do it himself if he is persuaded that enough “brownie points” might accrue from such an action. If not, I’m sure he’d be delighted to join the gang if someone like Michael Ancram was the instigator. A correctly timed EDM would severely embarrass the Bliar “government” and would directly attack the only person now with real power, Gordon Brown, through his proxy, Des Browne and, if carefully played, reveal that the fundamental problem with ESF has always been lack of funds from a Brown controlled Treasury, intent on torpedoing, by funding constriction, any initiative or strategy authored by the loathed Bliar, whatever the cost to the nation. A cautionary example of personal hatred and lust for power that has impacted all of us for almost a decade.
Very well done with this response from the MP’s you’ve written to – I’m sure there will be more responses in a similar vein. If you have deciphered James Gray’s scrawled post-script correctly, it will mean that he hopes not to hear from you again, as he considers that he has now done as much as he thinks he can and would like to resume a quiet life – I would suspect that he hasn’t much chance of that, now that he is dealing with you!
If I may respectfully suggest, your very polite reply should include the information that you are extremely grateful for his continued support in this vital matter of national defence and could he see his way towards signing an Early Day Motion when you have found an MP who is prepared to put one down – you never know, he might do it himself if he is persuaded that enough “brownie points” might accrue from such an action. If not, I’m sure he’d be delighted to join the gang if someone like Michael Ancram was the instigator. A correctly timed EDM would severely embarrass the Bliar “government” and would directly attack the only person now with real power, Gordon Brown, through his proxy, Des Browne and, if carefully played, reveal that the fundamental problem with ESF has always been lack of funds from a Brown controlled Treasury, intent on torpedoing, by funding constriction, any initiative or strategy authored by the loathed Bliar, whatever the cost to the nation. A cautionary example of personal hatred and lust for power that has impacted all of us for almost a decade.
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Chappie give me til next week. May have someone up the sleeve so to speak. James Gray has taken platitudes from the Govt at face value. He also has chums high up in the RAF. HC is, as usual spot on with his assessment. Hope you keep the heat firmly on Gray. He still seems to think ESF would not have made much difference.
Regards,
NG
Regards,
NG
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No, I have not seen a copy of the report, however, AOC2 was kind enough to explain his comments to the BoI, when I saw him in May. I don't want to be more specific in public, suffice to say that I do not believe we should have deployed hercs to Afg without ESF.
I do have a copy of the Govt response to the Committee's Fifth Report of Session 2005-06. The UK deployment to Afghanistan, received today.
HCDC: We note that concerns have been raised about the appropriateness of the DAS fitted to C130 Hercules used in Afghanistan. We also note MOD's assurances that the Hercules DAS is appropriate to conditions in Afghanistan.
MOD: Only Hercules C130 aircraft fitted with appropriate defensive systems are deployed to operational theatres.
Letter winging its way in to HCDC.
NG
I do have a copy of the Govt response to the Committee's Fifth Report of Session 2005-06. The UK deployment to Afghanistan, received today.
HCDC: We note that concerns have been raised about the appropriateness of the DAS fitted to C130 Hercules used in Afghanistan. We also note MOD's assurances that the Hercules DAS is appropriate to conditions in Afghanistan.
MOD: Only Hercules C130 aircraft fitted with appropriate defensive systems are deployed to operational theatres.
Letter winging its way in to HCDC.
NG
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chappie
I have been reviewing the posts that you have made in this and the other Hercules thread. Wherever your brother is now, he must be looking in admiration at the determined and spirited campaign that you are waging on his and his comrades’ posthumous behalves and on the behalves of other brave crews, continuing to operate in the most difficult of circumstances.
Please be in no doubt as to the power a bereaved sister possesses in her fight to prevail in this matter and do not be discouraged by minor setbacks. You merely require to find one powerful parliamentarian who will genuinely support you and who, if agreed as appropriate, will proceed along the lines that I have previously suggested. Once the political tide is in the flood, you’ll find the formerly unhelpful RAF “brass” very happy to jump aboard the boat and enjoy the sail!
I am particularly inspired by your earlier words.
You have many friends and in particular I would say that nigegilb is your staunchest and most effective ally – I am as impressed by his efforts and commitment as I am of your own. I am sure that you will avail yourself of all the assistance he can give you.
Good luck and good courage.
I have been reviewing the posts that you have made in this and the other Hercules thread. Wherever your brother is now, he must be looking in admiration at the determined and spirited campaign that you are waging on his and his comrades’ posthumous behalves and on the behalves of other brave crews, continuing to operate in the most difficult of circumstances.
Please be in no doubt as to the power a bereaved sister possesses in her fight to prevail in this matter and do not be discouraged by minor setbacks. You merely require to find one powerful parliamentarian who will genuinely support you and who, if agreed as appropriate, will proceed along the lines that I have previously suggested. Once the political tide is in the flood, you’ll find the formerly unhelpful RAF “brass” very happy to jump aboard the boat and enjoy the sail!
I am particularly inspired by your earlier words.
“I see regularly that the RAF has requested that the foam issue/petition doesn't get mentioned.
Why should I let them have what they want? Why should I cover up the fact that through the unwillingness of someone being prepared to take responsibility and spend the money there are ten fine men who are not here right now?
Why should I keep quiet at the risk of highlighting and/or embarrassing the officials? I’ve always been taught to take responsibility for your actions.
If you are going to do something, then before you do it, be sure you are prepared for the consequences of those actions and that you can take them on and deal with them.
They made their choice so here are the consequences of those actions. I’m reminded every day about the consequences when I realise all I have left of my brother is a photo.”
Why should I let them have what they want? Why should I cover up the fact that through the unwillingness of someone being prepared to take responsibility and spend the money there are ten fine men who are not here right now?
Why should I keep quiet at the risk of highlighting and/or embarrassing the officials? I’ve always been taught to take responsibility for your actions.
If you are going to do something, then before you do it, be sure you are prepared for the consequences of those actions and that you can take them on and deal with them.
They made their choice so here are the consequences of those actions. I’m reminded every day about the consequences when I realise all I have left of my brother is a photo.”
Good luck and good courage.
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Just want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. An awful lot has been achieved since we started a few months ago. I hope we have helped change the way the MoD thinks about its most valuable asset, its people. I understand that so much heat is being generated it is hard for the experts to get on with the job of enhancing protection on the Hercules. It is for this reason that I am signing off from PPRUNE for a while. PPRUNE itself has been immensely powerful in all this, it is a very important forum. I do not want to overstay my welcome here.
Regards,
Nige
Regards,
Nige
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Don't go Now!
nige
I think that you ought to reconsider. You started the campaign, you continue to lead it and you’ve done a remarkable job. To withdraw from Pprune now could possibly leave us unfocused, uninformed, perhaps in disarray and certainly with feelings of loss and anticlimax. I, for one, continue to welcome your posts!
I think that you ought to reconsider. You started the campaign, you continue to lead it and you’ve done a remarkable job. To withdraw from Pprune now could possibly leave us unfocused, uninformed, perhaps in disarray and certainly with feelings of loss and anticlimax. I, for one, continue to welcome your posts!
I do not want to overstay my welcome here.
I understand that so much heat is being generated it is hard for the experts to get on with the job of enhancing protection on the Hercules.
This campaign must be extremely demanding and time consuming - it's also been extremely effective. I look forward to your next posts.
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just to let you know that i'm still around....not that i'm much of a consolation compared to nige! i have sent a suitable concerned email to him. i'll keep you posted. please do not go just because nige is no longer choosing to be on pprune. i still need you and your support.
i have emailed a politician this am to ask that he consider either meeting woith me so i can address him and his colleagues and i've also asked him to consider allowing the petition to get into the house of commons. i'll keep you posted. he's one of many who i plan to contact.
i have emailed a politician this am to ask that he consider either meeting woith me so i can address him and his colleagues and i've also asked him to consider allowing the petition to get into the house of commons. i'll keep you posted. he's one of many who i plan to contact.
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A step back, and maybe a few weeks away from the plate is needed sometimes.
We don't know the reasons and we shouldn't push for answers. I know Nige is still 100% on the case.
Don't worry, be happy. The show still goes on.....trust me.
Keep the faith,
Permanent Sand.
We don't know the reasons and we shouldn't push for answers. I know Nige is still 100% on the case.
Don't worry, be happy. The show still goes on.....trust me.
Keep the faith,
Permanent Sand.
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just to let you know that nige is still doing work in the background as he is trying to meet with MP adam holloway, who i emailed at his request. i'm yet to hear back from him.
i'm in the process of contacting flight magasine to see if they will run the petition as i understand that it's a global editorial.
i'm waiting to hear about the lyneham local area papers websites to see if they will run anything.
my fear now is that nige has left, albeit temporarily, this thread will disappear into the archive and support will wane and i'll be on my own.please be assured i am still trying to fight as hard as i can.
i'm in the process of contacting flight magasine to see if they will run the petition as i understand that it's a global editorial.
i'm waiting to hear about the lyneham local area papers websites to see if they will run anything.
my fear now is that nige has left, albeit temporarily, this thread will disappear into the archive and support will wane and i'll be on my own.please be assured i am still trying to fight as hard as i can.