Parliamentary Questions concerning Hercules Safety
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JB I haven't waded through the article yet, too many domestic tasks this weekend! I have also done some research and I have spoken at length to a leading human rights lawyer (don't all groan!). I think you are spot on, we have taken care to establish a paper trail setting out MoD decisions to cancel DAS programmes etc. I have reason to believe they are s******g themselves. I stated quite clearly to AOC 2GP that Herc crews should not have been sent to Afg without foam. Are we getting to such a state of crisis that CAS is going to have to turn round to his political masters and tell him we cannot do all this tasking? I very much doubt it, if only because they would look foolish in the process. I believed all along that this deployment to Afg was one too many and would turn out to be a very big mistake. However, it might just provide the excuse to get out of Iraq ahead of time. Experts who are still serving please correct me if you think we can sustain these 2 ops indefinitely. If the Chiefs decide to press on at the expense of fitting self-protection there is a very big risk that we lose another crew.
All of this is a failure in prioritizing safety for personnel. Unforgiveable, but something that has happened for a number of years. One thing that could be done immediately is to utilise MK3 Hercs for an upgrade useable for current ops. Shouldn't cost too much and would allow other pressing ac mods to be made.
NG
Just like to add a thought to training. Because this is a 3 year Op in my view training must have the highest priority. I am not privvy to the kind of ops that are being planned in Afg but I do know that experience levels at Lyneham have dwindled in recent years. It would be a spectacular own goal to divert training resources just now. There is no easy decision. I cannot remember a situation like this in my time in RAF. The 'Yes' men need to turn into 'NO' men. For a while at least.....
All of this is a failure in prioritizing safety for personnel. Unforgiveable, but something that has happened for a number of years. One thing that could be done immediately is to utilise MK3 Hercs for an upgrade useable for current ops. Shouldn't cost too much and would allow other pressing ac mods to be made.
NG
Just like to add a thought to training. Because this is a 3 year Op in my view training must have the highest priority. I am not privvy to the kind of ops that are being planned in Afg but I do know that experience levels at Lyneham have dwindled in recent years. It would be a spectacular own goal to divert training resources just now. There is no easy decision. I cannot remember a situation like this in my time in RAF. The 'Yes' men need to turn into 'NO' men. For a while at least.....
Last edited by nigegilb; 4th Jun 2006 at 14:59.
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hello girls and guys of the skies.
i'm back from deepeset darkest norfolk. i ended up doing some tv and radio work, not that i minded as all necessary.
now, my bright spark idea of resorting to the petition is ruffling feathers. good. i wouldn't want it to be too comfy in the upper echelons of power. i want you to sweat like the crew of XV179 and no doubt countless other crews have and do on a daily basis. unless i'm missing something nige, are you trying to tell me that we will now get foam fitted fleetwide to the hercs or am i dreaming? please clarify for me. remember, i've been away for a week and reliant on being filled in by the tv crews the latetest MOD statement. which, i have to say is has been trotted out before, or something similar. saying that the decision has beeen taken to fit foam to some of the hercs and they will review the technicalities and the life/seviceability left in the remailning ac. please, someone enlighten me. thank you.
i'm back from deepeset darkest norfolk. i ended up doing some tv and radio work, not that i minded as all necessary.
now, my bright spark idea of resorting to the petition is ruffling feathers. good. i wouldn't want it to be too comfy in the upper echelons of power. i want you to sweat like the crew of XV179 and no doubt countless other crews have and do on a daily basis. unless i'm missing something nige, are you trying to tell me that we will now get foam fitted fleetwide to the hercs or am i dreaming? please clarify for me. remember, i've been away for a week and reliant on being filled in by the tv crews the latetest MOD statement. which, i have to say is has been trotted out before, or something similar. saying that the decision has beeen taken to fit foam to some of the hercs and they will review the technicalities and the life/seviceability left in the remailning ac. please, someone enlighten me. thank you.
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Nige, one way of addressing the shortfall in tac AT whilst the fleet is undergoing the foam/DAS mod would be to 'borrow'/lease/whatever a small number of USAF/ANG Hercs.
Perhaps the seed should be sown at a suitable level - it may not have been considered amongst the hand-wringing, sweating decision-makers.
You might just be the man to do it...
Perhaps the seed should be sown at a suitable level - it may not have been considered amongst the hand-wringing, sweating decision-makers.
You might just be the man to do it...
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Jon Snow kindly fronted the idea to Des Browne the other week, he was sweating so much maybe he did not hear the question. More C17s please. Definitely worth trying again. I will take up your idea with the people I know best, HCDC. Chappie welcome back, we are not getting fleetwide foam, far from it. I cannot confirm the numbers, but I believe a majority of Hercs are getting foam. Not bad considering the original plan was for five ac but not good enough if you end up flying uinprotected into badlands. RAF does not have enough money to do all of them.
Keep stirring the pot. I have just read the Independent and Sunday Telegraph. The Armed Forces are all over the papers today, none of it good news for the Top Brass or the Govt. I think we helped to start something!!??
Keep stirring the pot. I have just read the Independent and Sunday Telegraph. The Armed Forces are all over the papers today, none of it good news for the Top Brass or the Govt. I think we helped to start something!!??
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Airlifter Numbers
JTO,
Unless there is a production capacity problem (possible on C17?) I think that you will find that DEC make the numbers decision - preferably based on dstl or QinetiQ OA but just as likely based on cash restraints. The DPA will buy what they are told!
JB
Unless there is a production capacity problem (possible on C17?) I think that you will find that DEC make the numbers decision - preferably based on dstl or QinetiQ OA but just as likely based on cash restraints. The DPA will buy what they are told!
JB
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Greatly moved by the emotions expressed on the petition page. Dignity, sadness and anger, a powerful combination. I hope our politicians and politico officers are reading and understanding.
Greatly moved by the emotions expressed on the petition page. Dignity, sadness and anger, a powerful combination. I hope our politicians and politico officers are reading and understanding.
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JTO
What did the study recommend - 8/33 as mentioned or more/less. On what op tempo was this based - 2 med scale with out cancelling trg? Did the study go so far as to think how many crews and what DAS fit for the ac? Can you tell, or is that off-limits? If it is, sorry for asking!
Nige et al
Yes, I am frustrated that we seem incapable of managing even one med-scale 'war' without cancelling trg - as is mandated by all high-level planning and decision-making (hah). All the while, HQ 2 Gp and PMA continue to drive down the AT crew ratio. LYE started Afghan-1 with about 2-3 crews per ac - but even then we couldn't properly crew an 10 ac det!
Now the Herc fleet is down to less than 2 crews per ac. Which bright spark thought of that!? If all the aircraft at LYE were serviceable, we couldn't crew them for war-fighting!
Now of course, with too many ac sick, or in the hangar being modded, we can barely provide ac for the tasks we have - however, we can't provide any trg ac at all - NOT ONE, NEXT WEEK.
This year, there have been very few, if any, worthwhile Trials and Exercises - when did we last run a full Tac course!
I agree with JTO, I don't think the circle can be squared - But it could IF THE AOC CANCELLED OP TASKING!
ONLY THEN, WILL CDS GET THE 'AMMO' TO REQUEST THAT THE SofS DEF ASKS FOR MORE TREASURY SUPPORT
Are the AOC/CDS going to have the kahunas to do that? I do hope so and if they did, they would be regarded as real leaders - but the sad reality is that neither CinCSTC, CAS nor CDS will let the AOC make the first move! Life's a bitch!
Unfortunately, the intense pressure to fit out the ac might save a decision. Regrettably, and whatever happens, the trg will be first thing to suffer and we will be back where we were in 2002! ARRGGGHHH!!!!
flipster
What did the study recommend - 8/33 as mentioned or more/less. On what op tempo was this based - 2 med scale with out cancelling trg? Did the study go so far as to think how many crews and what DAS fit for the ac? Can you tell, or is that off-limits? If it is, sorry for asking!
Nige et al
Yes, I am frustrated that we seem incapable of managing even one med-scale 'war' without cancelling trg - as is mandated by all high-level planning and decision-making (hah). All the while, HQ 2 Gp and PMA continue to drive down the AT crew ratio. LYE started Afghan-1 with about 2-3 crews per ac - but even then we couldn't properly crew an 10 ac det!
Now the Herc fleet is down to less than 2 crews per ac. Which bright spark thought of that!? If all the aircraft at LYE were serviceable, we couldn't crew them for war-fighting!
Now of course, with too many ac sick, or in the hangar being modded, we can barely provide ac for the tasks we have - however, we can't provide any trg ac at all - NOT ONE, NEXT WEEK.
This year, there have been very few, if any, worthwhile Trials and Exercises - when did we last run a full Tac course!
I agree with JTO, I don't think the circle can be squared - But it could IF THE AOC CANCELLED OP TASKING!
ONLY THEN, WILL CDS GET THE 'AMMO' TO REQUEST THAT THE SofS DEF ASKS FOR MORE TREASURY SUPPORT
Are the AOC/CDS going to have the kahunas to do that? I do hope so and if they did, they would be regarded as real leaders - but the sad reality is that neither CinCSTC, CAS nor CDS will let the AOC make the first move! Life's a bitch!
Unfortunately, the intense pressure to fit out the ac might save a decision. Regrettably, and whatever happens, the trg will be first thing to suffer and we will be back where we were in 2002! ARRGGGHHH!!!!
flipster
Last edited by flipster; 4th Jun 2006 at 21:29.
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Steady on Flip, you are a commercial pilot now, let someone else worry about all that. Everyone seems to have realised at the same time that the Armed Forces are suffering from underfunding, lack of manning and to an extent poor morale. BAFF launches tomorrow, mums being heard today, looks like the rug has well and truly been pulled from under.
My big beef with AFG is this, we already fought this war and won it in 2002. What on earth has happened since then. We got distracted by a war in Iraq and now the Talibs are back in town. I am astonished that 4 years on it looks as though AFG 2 is about to happen. Strategic shambles.
My big beef with AFG is this, we already fought this war and won it in 2002. What on earth has happened since then. We got distracted by a war in Iraq and now the Talibs are back in town. I am astonished that 4 years on it looks as though AFG 2 is about to happen. Strategic shambles.
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I'm only concerned because all this was so sadly predictable! But I am more worried because many of our friends are still 'in the thick of it' and are going over our 'old ground'. But while things are better in many respects, not least the fact that many of them were there last time, the boys and girls continue to be handicapped by the same lack of high-level support. Grrrrrr!
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As ever, Chappie, one is left in awe of the strength of your passion. The rest of us don't even come close!
Ideas for whom to copy the petition? I would also include (if you haven't planned it already)
AOC 2 Gp
Chief of the Air Staff
Chief of the Defence Staff
along with ministers various (and obvious).
As for why -
AOC 2 Gp won't 'pull the plug' on AT Ops because CinC Strike Command writes the AOC's reports and has the final say on his promotion.
CinC Strike, in turn , gets the nod from the Chief of the Air Staff and he gets the CDS seal of approval or not.
Conversely, CDS won't have any reason to go to MoD/Treasury with cap in hand unless the Op is curtailed/hindered.
It would take a very brave man to put his career on the line in isolation. Nonetheless, I know there are very good and honourable people who get to such heights - it just takes kahunas!
Sirs, we know you read these posts - so, for once, stand up and be counted....please.
You will go down in history far more so than if you stand back and do nothing, letting the spineless politicians weedle their snide and self-promoting ways out of this.
Chappie - what you say comes right from the heart with such honesty and integrity, it would take an inhuman effort to ignore your pleas. We know you are right!
(Don't even bother with LJ - you have bigger fish to fry!)
All that the rest of us can do is to get more people to sign the petition.
So come everyone - back to the streets/computer!
Ideas for whom to copy the petition? I would also include (if you haven't planned it already)
AOC 2 Gp
Chief of the Air Staff
Chief of the Defence Staff
along with ministers various (and obvious).
As for why -
AOC 2 Gp won't 'pull the plug' on AT Ops because CinC Strike Command writes the AOC's reports and has the final say on his promotion.
CinC Strike, in turn , gets the nod from the Chief of the Air Staff and he gets the CDS seal of approval or not.
Conversely, CDS won't have any reason to go to MoD/Treasury with cap in hand unless the Op is curtailed/hindered.
It would take a very brave man to put his career on the line in isolation. Nonetheless, I know there are very good and honourable people who get to such heights - it just takes kahunas!
Sirs, we know you read these posts - so, for once, stand up and be counted....please.
You will go down in history far more so than if you stand back and do nothing, letting the spineless politicians weedle their snide and self-promoting ways out of this.
Chappie - what you say comes right from the heart with such honesty and integrity, it would take an inhuman effort to ignore your pleas. We know you are right!
(Don't even bother with LJ - you have bigger fish to fry!)
All that the rest of us can do is to get more people to sign the petition.
So come everyone - back to the streets/computer!
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Chappie - petition has been forwarded to UK expat contacts in Hong Kong (some ex military). Will continue to do so. I see one has signed this morning (HK time).
Keep it up.
K
Keep it up.
K
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Kam,
It is our gain that you share some of your dark times with us in such a painfully honest way. The military is good at the grand things, the repatriation and the funeral. However you have been able to read for yourself the indifference to danger and the lack of concern for the consequences of death that some people have. In many ways that is what makes our military so brutally effective but we have not been involved in a war of attrition for a long time. Many of those posting will not have been touched by death in such a personal way that you have. It might just give pause for thought. It might also get through to those running the war. Remember, this Govt has no connection with the Armed Forces, Blair's children will not serve on the ground in Iraq neither will his ministers' or the vast majority of parliamentarians' who voted for this war like sheep.
Blair has tried to divorce himself from the reality of war, he will not meet the widows he will not visit the injured and yet he espouses his christian values. This war was unnecessary but the two big leaders in the world just could not wait to get started, could not wait for the inspectors to do their job. I bet Blair regrets it now, in his dark hours but if he admitted it he would be finished.
I agree with you about the RAF's ignorance. AOC 2 flew Tornados, an ac that happens to enjoy fuel tank protection. It has been confirmed to me recently that foam was requested as far back as 1981. The RAF does not have a leg to stand on. Keep fighting for what you know is right and we will do the same on this side of the world.
Regards,
NG
It is our gain that you share some of your dark times with us in such a painfully honest way. The military is good at the grand things, the repatriation and the funeral. However you have been able to read for yourself the indifference to danger and the lack of concern for the consequences of death that some people have. In many ways that is what makes our military so brutally effective but we have not been involved in a war of attrition for a long time. Many of those posting will not have been touched by death in such a personal way that you have. It might just give pause for thought. It might also get through to those running the war. Remember, this Govt has no connection with the Armed Forces, Blair's children will not serve on the ground in Iraq neither will his ministers' or the vast majority of parliamentarians' who voted for this war like sheep.
Blair has tried to divorce himself from the reality of war, he will not meet the widows he will not visit the injured and yet he espouses his christian values. This war was unnecessary but the two big leaders in the world just could not wait to get started, could not wait for the inspectors to do their job. I bet Blair regrets it now, in his dark hours but if he admitted it he would be finished.
I agree with you about the RAF's ignorance. AOC 2 flew Tornados, an ac that happens to enjoy fuel tank protection. It has been confirmed to me recently that foam was requested as far back as 1981. The RAF does not have a leg to stand on. Keep fighting for what you know is right and we will do the same on this side of the world.
Regards,
NG
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kam, there are no words to say that can even remotely start to soothe your pain at all that you shared with us. thankyou for feeling as though you can. i am going to PM you my number as i do not want you to feel isolated anymore. i thought i'd already done that, but i guess not. please feel free to lean on me. i can't stop the hurt but i'm a shoulder to consider.i hope that somehow you have had some contact from the other families. i put out a rallying call and hoped the network would kick into action. i'm so sorry if my attempt has failed you.
i'm sad to say that i too know the pain of hearing your baby talking about the pain of the loss of someone so special and the way they try so hard to understand what has happened. we try to grasp around for something that will help to make sense to them but at the end of the day words are nothing when you long for flesh and bones. i'm ashamed to say that my five year old little girl has sometimes been the one to resort to trying to stop mummy from being so sad about uncle bob and the shame and guilt i feel from holding her and unable to stop the tears is too much to bear. this is not about me, sorry, i was trying to say that i understand your pain but i think that has come out wrong.
the thing is that doesn't seem to be grasped by the top brass is that we, as the families left behind, are not just to be dealt with and our needs met for the span of the ceremonies only. what happened to the family that the military once was? i hope that, sirs, you are reading this, we are not a hinderance to be endured then once the ceremonies are done that's it....times up. it feels like we're something to be embaressed of. that's not the case. the more you want to distance yourselves, the more i question as to why? please, please, stop and think what the outcomes of your actions actually acheive. do not ignore the letters, the questions. that will only fuel the concerns and the hurt. i for one will not go away. can you not even find it in yourselves to admit if you don't know what's happening on the case of the ebay fiasco then admit it. be the leaders that you purport to be, be the men you want your troops to be, lead by example. honesty will give way to respect. ignorance is tantamount to cowardice. think on, sirs, please. put this right. i expect the ebay nightmare was another thing not supposed to happen. like the attention to the apalling lack of ESF but you can help put that right.
i'm sad to say that i too know the pain of hearing your baby talking about the pain of the loss of someone so special and the way they try so hard to understand what has happened. we try to grasp around for something that will help to make sense to them but at the end of the day words are nothing when you long for flesh and bones. i'm ashamed to say that my five year old little girl has sometimes been the one to resort to trying to stop mummy from being so sad about uncle bob and the shame and guilt i feel from holding her and unable to stop the tears is too much to bear. this is not about me, sorry, i was trying to say that i understand your pain but i think that has come out wrong.
the thing is that doesn't seem to be grasped by the top brass is that we, as the families left behind, are not just to be dealt with and our needs met for the span of the ceremonies only. what happened to the family that the military once was? i hope that, sirs, you are reading this, we are not a hinderance to be endured then once the ceremonies are done that's it....times up. it feels like we're something to be embaressed of. that's not the case. the more you want to distance yourselves, the more i question as to why? please, please, stop and think what the outcomes of your actions actually acheive. do not ignore the letters, the questions. that will only fuel the concerns and the hurt. i for one will not go away. can you not even find it in yourselves to admit if you don't know what's happening on the case of the ebay fiasco then admit it. be the leaders that you purport to be, be the men you want your troops to be, lead by example. honesty will give way to respect. ignorance is tantamount to cowardice. think on, sirs, please. put this right. i expect the ebay nightmare was another thing not supposed to happen. like the attention to the apalling lack of ESF but you can help put that right.
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another call for help.
guys, another call for help.....sorry.
on the other herc thread is a post from one of the other families. it has backed up what i was suspecting and that it wasn't just me not being informed of what has been going on. i know this is not the thread but in someways it will be helpful. the ebay fiasco a few weeks back where some sick sick bastard put on the net the video in all it's glory has not been solved. kellie had to see her husbands body. she has been met by a wall of silence and nothing is happening to either confirm or deny what she saw and or update about what is being done. no widow should have to have that image burned into her memory like that then left to deal with it. does anyone know on the grapevine what is happening. she is not the only familiy member to have been affected by the atrocity but that does not seem to have mattered. whether the ebay fiasco was another thing that was not supposed to happen i don't know. it may seem insurmountable to try and find out who did it but please some honesty from someone would be of some help. i have left a plea to the airships that i know read these threads to rectify this. we, the families that are left behind, are not to be endured for the duration of the ceremonies and that's it. we have so many questions, our loved ones did not need to die. knowing that is like putting a knife into an already open, sore,deep, gaping wound and twisting it constantly.
i urge, you again to please help us. please PM me. please help this pain by signing the petition. you can, as i've already stated, download it onto paper. i've done this and i've gone into my community and put out the petitions out there. every signature is needed. i will stand in the street and lobby people if i think that is what is needed. remember those signatures i told you about. well, one of them was bullied for having a dead dad. please help me stop there from being anymore dead dads. help me stop children learn about pain and sadness in such a brutal way as my daughter at the age of five has. only this morning because she gave me a picture to make me happy and not be sad about uncle bob becuase i cry and she hugs me. i try to hide it. sometimes i can't and my baby comforts me. so, sirs, while you read this thread and continue to hide behind your wall of silence remember that image. be proud of what you have achieved. your inability to stand and be counted and to lead has acheived that. do not be foolish to think you will not be affected. you stand to lose your lives if you fly in the ac without protection. so change this now. lend your voice to the petition. be the men you want your troops to be.
on the other herc thread is a post from one of the other families. it has backed up what i was suspecting and that it wasn't just me not being informed of what has been going on. i know this is not the thread but in someways it will be helpful. the ebay fiasco a few weeks back where some sick sick bastard put on the net the video in all it's glory has not been solved. kellie had to see her husbands body. she has been met by a wall of silence and nothing is happening to either confirm or deny what she saw and or update about what is being done. no widow should have to have that image burned into her memory like that then left to deal with it. does anyone know on the grapevine what is happening. she is not the only familiy member to have been affected by the atrocity but that does not seem to have mattered. whether the ebay fiasco was another thing that was not supposed to happen i don't know. it may seem insurmountable to try and find out who did it but please some honesty from someone would be of some help. i have left a plea to the airships that i know read these threads to rectify this. we, the families that are left behind, are not to be endured for the duration of the ceremonies and that's it. we have so many questions, our loved ones did not need to die. knowing that is like putting a knife into an already open, sore,deep, gaping wound and twisting it constantly.
i urge, you again to please help us. please PM me. please help this pain by signing the petition. you can, as i've already stated, download it onto paper. i've done this and i've gone into my community and put out the petitions out there. every signature is needed. i will stand in the street and lobby people if i think that is what is needed. remember those signatures i told you about. well, one of them was bullied for having a dead dad. please help me stop there from being anymore dead dads. help me stop children learn about pain and sadness in such a brutal way as my daughter at the age of five has. only this morning because she gave me a picture to make me happy and not be sad about uncle bob becuase i cry and she hugs me. i try to hide it. sometimes i can't and my baby comforts me. so, sirs, while you read this thread and continue to hide behind your wall of silence remember that image. be proud of what you have achieved. your inability to stand and be counted and to lead has acheived that. do not be foolish to think you will not be affected. you stand to lose your lives if you fly in the ac without protection. so change this now. lend your voice to the petition. be the men you want your troops to be.
The offensive e-bay item was number 9132424113.
I reported it to eBay UK Community Watch at 1132 on 7 May 06 - as did others - and it was withdrawn very shortly afterwards.
I reported it to eBay UK Community Watch at 1132 on 7 May 06 - as did others - and it was withdrawn very shortly afterwards.
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beags, thankyou. i'm fed up of waiting to find out if the cretin has been dealt with and so super sleuth chappie here we go. i guess, it's my pathetic way of trying to undo the image that kam saw. but i know there wil be nothing that can do that but i can't stand back and do nothing.
i'm all fired up so off to send my petition to lots of other people now. just had a thought shall i send it to AOC 2 Gp and ask them to circulate it and sign it? fnar fnar.oooo now the cogs are turning. i could do that to lots of people. mr blair, prince charles as he's meeting with families at the end of this month. right i'm off. bye.
ps kam please empty your pm box. ta.
i'm all fired up so off to send my petition to lots of other people now. just had a thought shall i send it to AOC 2 Gp and ask them to circulate it and sign it? fnar fnar.oooo now the cogs are turning. i could do that to lots of people. mr blair, prince charles as he's meeting with families at the end of this month. right i'm off. bye.
ps kam please empty your pm box. ta.
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kam, have just tried to send you PM but you are full. well, your inbox is. please can you make some space. ta.
if anyone out there in cyber space can help please can you tell me how to save a message. if you write it out then the recipients box is full how can i save it, or is it lost forever? sorry to be so thick!
if anyone out there in cyber space can help please can you tell me how to save a message. if you write it out then the recipients box is full how can i save it, or is it lost forever? sorry to be so thick!
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scroggs
When I kicked this thread off in "Rumours and News", I had kept my fingers crossed that it might stay there, even though the subject matter did belong in the "Military Aircrew" section - my reasoning being that "Rumours and News" reached the full 120,200 Pprune membership/readership, rather than the more esoteric "military" readership of "Military Aircrew" - a wider readership being equated with a higher probability of petition signature whilst the more limited "military" readership exposure being, perhaps, detrimental to full signature potential.
I stand by my original words that:
"Whether you guys and gals are military (or ex), it doesn’t matter. Please support the safety and well-being of fellow aviators, doing a gallant and difficult job, currently flying into and out of Iraq and Afghanistan, in small arms-vulnerable, non-ESF equipped aircraft."
You will have doubtless noticed that chappie is fighting a similarly gallant action against the sloth, ignorance, mendacity, inertia and stupidity of both the current UK "government" and the prevailing "appartchik" MoD mindset and that she asks one of the the most apposite questions of the whole thread and makes a similarly apposite point, in her latest post, to the effect that:
1. "What is the problem with the AOC going cap in hand to the treasury to ask for extra funds?"
2. "I need your signatures so that the three little ones sig.no's 1698,1699 and 1700 can see they've made a difference."
May I respectfully suggest that now is the time to fully support chappie and to harness the power of Pprune in a campaign for the safety of aviators in general, whether military or civil (remember the civil Baghdad DHL Airbus?), by giving this matter the widest airing possible.
May I similarly respectfully request that you and Danny consider a "sticky" in "Rumours and News" with a link to the petition website, to enable the collection of the maximum number of signatures that Pprune can manage, in aid of, in my personal view, a vital and worthy cause?
When I kicked this thread off in "Rumours and News", I had kept my fingers crossed that it might stay there, even though the subject matter did belong in the "Military Aircrew" section - my reasoning being that "Rumours and News" reached the full 120,200 Pprune membership/readership, rather than the more esoteric "military" readership of "Military Aircrew" - a wider readership being equated with a higher probability of petition signature whilst the more limited "military" readership exposure being, perhaps, detrimental to full signature potential.
I stand by my original words that:
"Whether you guys and gals are military (or ex), it doesn’t matter. Please support the safety and well-being of fellow aviators, doing a gallant and difficult job, currently flying into and out of Iraq and Afghanistan, in small arms-vulnerable, non-ESF equipped aircraft."
You will have doubtless noticed that chappie is fighting a similarly gallant action against the sloth, ignorance, mendacity, inertia and stupidity of both the current UK "government" and the prevailing "appartchik" MoD mindset and that she asks one of the the most apposite questions of the whole thread and makes a similarly apposite point, in her latest post, to the effect that:
1. "What is the problem with the AOC going cap in hand to the treasury to ask for extra funds?"
2. "I need your signatures so that the three little ones sig.no's 1698,1699 and 1700 can see they've made a difference."
May I respectfully suggest that now is the time to fully support chappie and to harness the power of Pprune in a campaign for the safety of aviators in general, whether military or civil (remember the civil Baghdad DHL Airbus?), by giving this matter the widest airing possible.
May I similarly respectfully request that you and Danny consider a "sticky" in "Rumours and News" with a link to the petition website, to enable the collection of the maximum number of signatures that Pprune can manage, in aid of, in my personal view, a vital and worthy cause?
Join Date: Mar 2006
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aww shucks!
high cirrus, well what can i say? apart from thankyou so very much. it may seem weird this next bit but i hope that it's not too icky! despite the pain that i have endured i count myself to be very very blessed. this is because of the wonderful support and help that i receive from all of you. it may seem vain, pathetic even but the messages of support really spur me. i know that i lost my brother and i did n't need to, but the upside (if i can call it that) is the priviledge it is to be alongside all of you. you all lost in that crash. you too feel the pain and i try to be mindful of that because sometimes i worry i get too self absorbed im my grief that i'm unable to see yours to. this is a worthy cause and i'm confident that in time goodness will prevail, at the risk of sounding like a super hero!