Parliamentary Questions concerning Hercules Safety
Defence 'expert'
He's not BBC - he's from International Institute for Strategic Studies.
And, clearly, he misses several points about the whole problem.
I tried to get various media outlets to take the story on and refute his comments, but none was interested.
MoD comment seems pretty desperate - fitting of foam "would not definitely have prevented....." Um, sounds like a statement of the blindingly obvious to me. And irrelevant. We're not talking certainties - but we are talking reducing risk. Which foam would undoubtedly have done.
But since the MoD won't be interviewed, that point (and others, beautifully outlined by Nige) cannot be put to them.
I think they're wondering what to do next.
We're still here!
airsound
PS Wasn't Nige faneffingtastic
And, clearly, he misses several points about the whole problem.
I tried to get various media outlets to take the story on and refute his comments, but none was interested.
MoD comment seems pretty desperate - fitting of foam "would not definitely have prevented....." Um, sounds like a statement of the blindingly obvious to me. And irrelevant. We're not talking certainties - but we are talking reducing risk. Which foam would undoubtedly have done.
But since the MoD won't be interviewed, that point (and others, beautifully outlined by Nige) cannot be put to them.
I think they're wondering what to do next.
We're still here!
airsound
PS Wasn't Nige faneffingtastic
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Sorry my PM box is full can't clear it quick enough. Very much looking forward to the meeting with facilitator on Saturday. fantastic support from everyone. Only one question where is the MoD in all this?
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MoD will be playing its standard 'Tomorrow's Chip-Wrapper' game. They are counting on the mainstream media being interested in Prezza's Pants and Rooney's Foot, not foam for Hercs. C4 News is one of the few outlets that may actually follow a story up, vide the Chinook thread. Top marks to you boys and girl(s) for some excellent campaigning, though.
I wonder if, to combat the slough of pension-loitering mediocrity that repeatedly survives these scandalous occurrences, we should look at a site dedicated to those taking on the MoD whatever the issue. Experience and expertise gained in one campaign could then be passed on to others. We could even have a "Lessons will be Learned-ometer"! How many times have you heard that old chestnut trooped out by Ingram et al after lives or £M have been wasted?
I wonder if, to combat the slough of pension-loitering mediocrity that repeatedly survives these scandalous occurrences, we should look at a site dedicated to those taking on the MoD whatever the issue. Experience and expertise gained in one campaign could then be passed on to others. We could even have a "Lessons will be Learned-ometer"! How many times have you heard that old chestnut trooped out by Ingram et al after lives or £M have been wasted?
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Good points. 3 invites no sign of MoD. They are hoping this is going to pass. We may well have to go back to Parliament now and fire up some MPs. The Lib Dems have been very strong in this area. Maybe we should approach their leader.
NG
NG
Well done Nige, excellent work.
As for so-called analysts like Andrew Brookes, you couldn't analyse my pants
To use your car crash analogy Mr Brookes, I'd like you drive up the M1 for a few hundred miles; there may be up to half a dozen snipers on the way. We could give you protection against these snipers which would cost us about 1/50th the price of the car but we won't. Your life? Not even in the equation mate.
As for so-called analysts like Andrew Brookes, you couldn't analyse my pants
To use your car crash analogy Mr Brookes, I'd like you drive up the M1 for a few hundred miles; there may be up to half a dozen snipers on the way. We could give you protection against these snipers which would cost us about 1/50th the price of the car but we won't. Your life? Not even in the equation mate.
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This email was sent to Channel 4 news. It is written by a current RAF pilot. If you feel strongly about it let them know and they will revisit the subject.
"I would like to thank you wholeheartedly for the excellent item on MOD failings regarding Hercules protection. I would also wish to ask for your continued support for this campaign.
As a serving RAF pilot in 2001, I sat on coils of chain for protection whilst flying operational sorties in Hercules aircraft. This was due to a lack of flight deck armoured protection across the fleet. The lack of foam protection for all RAF Hercules is nothing short of scandalous. As Nigel pointed out, presently the UK is the only lanch partner involved in the A400M (Hercules replacement) to opt out of fitting a fuel inerting system as a protective measure.
As a former collegue of Nigel Gilbert, I am exceedingly proud of the representation he has made on behalf of serving Officers' and bereaved families. I am also saddened and angered by the apparent total failure of the MOD to address this issue with the gravity it deserves."
"I would like to thank you wholeheartedly for the excellent item on MOD failings regarding Hercules protection. I would also wish to ask for your continued support for this campaign.
As a serving RAF pilot in 2001, I sat on coils of chain for protection whilst flying operational sorties in Hercules aircraft. This was due to a lack of flight deck armoured protection across the fleet. The lack of foam protection for all RAF Hercules is nothing short of scandalous. As Nigel pointed out, presently the UK is the only lanch partner involved in the A400M (Hercules replacement) to opt out of fitting a fuel inerting system as a protective measure.
As a former collegue of Nigel Gilbert, I am exceedingly proud of the representation he has made on behalf of serving Officers' and bereaved families. I am also saddened and angered by the apparent total failure of the MOD to address this issue with the gravity it deserves."
Originally Posted by FormerFlake
Well done all.
Anyone know who this BBC Defence Expert (Andrew Brookes) expert is? His quotes don't suggest he is an expert at all.
Full Article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4964866.stm
Anyone know who this BBC Defence Expert (Andrew Brookes) expert is? His quotes don't suggest he is an expert at all.
Full Article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4964866.stm
You mean this chap?
http://www.iiss.org/staffexpertise/l...ndrew-brookes-
Also, unless I am very much mistaken (which I often am...), a Ppruner.
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FF
C4 Report can be downloaded here: http://www.channel4.com/news/special...ge.jsp?id=2282
C4 Report can be downloaded here: http://www.channel4.com/news/special...ge.jsp?id=2282
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I am still due to meet AOC 2 on Thursday. I want everyone to know that this argument is in no way restricted to SF. That is the tip of the iceberg.
I am trying to secure a fundamental agreement to improve safety across the board. I do not care if MoD say nothing in public as long as they right what is so obviously wrong. Actions will speak louder than words.
I am trying to secure a fundamental agreement to improve safety across the board. I do not care if MoD say nothing in public as long as they right what is so obviously wrong. Actions will speak louder than words.
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Originally Posted by An Teallach
FF
C4 Report can be downloaded here: http://www.channel4.com/news/special...ge.jsp?id=2282
C4 Report can be downloaded here: http://www.channel4.com/news/special...ge.jsp?id=2282
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Originally Posted by Lockstock
Well done Nige, excellent work.
As for so-called analysts like Andrew Brookes, you couldn't analyse my pants
As for so-called analysts like Andrew Brookes, you couldn't analyse my pants
And is it just me that suspects an increasing number of so-called "independent experts" interviewed by the BBC have "government approved" stamped on their backside?
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I understand we are attracting International interest. Australian Broadcasting Company are interested and I have used my contacts in Norway to help raise awareness in Scandinavia.
NG
NG
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Great stuff all round - everyone.
Well done - nige - great interview!
Good luck on Thu.
I've tried to find this chap Brook's comments verbatim, as I don't want to rubbish him without first checking - anyone know exactly what he said?
Even without the chapter and verse of his 'analysis', his car analogy is a bit 'ragged'. Not least because if 'cars crash' - he's right, you don't ban driving. But if it is discovered that wearing seat-belts improves the chances of survival - well, you do make it law to wear a seat belt!
I know for a fact that, given the option, I would have liked to have foam fitted rather than not - and I am certain that Steady and his crew would also have stood a much better chance with foam.
Well done - nige - great interview!
Good luck on Thu.
I've tried to find this chap Brook's comments verbatim, as I don't want to rubbish him without first checking - anyone know exactly what he said?
Even without the chapter and verse of his 'analysis', his car analogy is a bit 'ragged'. Not least because if 'cars crash' - he's right, you don't ban driving. But if it is discovered that wearing seat-belts improves the chances of survival - well, you do make it law to wear a seat belt!
I know for a fact that, given the option, I would have liked to have foam fitted rather than not - and I am certain that Steady and his crew would also have stood a much better chance with foam.
Last edited by flipster; 3rd May 2006 at 00:08.
ABC? Ch4 news? Radio 4 Today programme?
Dragging it back down to my level :
The Sun - 03 May 06
Well done all.
(Chappie and families - there's piccies of the boys included with the story. Just mentioning it so they don't take you by surprise.)
Dragging it back down to my level :
The Sun - 03 May 06
Well done all.
(Chappie and families - there's piccies of the boys included with the story. Just mentioning it so they don't take you by surprise.)
Red On, Green On
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ABC links are:
Transcript, Windows Media, MP3 and Real Audio.
Page is http://www.abc.net.au/am/, but links above may not be on the page after May 3rd.
Transcript, Windows Media, MP3 and Real Audio.
Page is http://www.abc.net.au/am/, but links above may not be on the page after May 3rd.