RAF AT fleet, cx this out!
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RAF AT fleet, cx this out!
This is from ARRSE.co.uk:
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn/Forums/v...ic/t=9099.html
"Having spent 48 hours at Basrah APOD being treated like cattle and being lied to by the RLC movers (Quislings) about when the one Tristar serving theatre would be fixed in order to fly us home, I discovered the following when my wife picked me up from Brize:
- She had been told that the flight delays were caused by the security situation in Basrah. This was untrue, as the delay had been caused by the Crabs failing to have a back-up aircraft/plan when their Tristar broke.
- She was not allowed access to Brize as no manifest had been sent from Basrah (despite having her car and personal details on the guardroom computer from 6 weeks previously). Thus she and many other family members who had travelled long distances to pick up loved ones were stuck at the gate.
- While in the Guardroom she overheard the instruction being given to switch the passenger enquiry line to an empty line as someone had had the temerity to complain and 'they weren't paid to deal with that crap'. This resulted in many families being unable to find out arrival times/changes etc. and caused widespread distress.
If I had been responsible for such a catalogue of fcuk-ups and lies in my unit, I would have been sacked on the spot. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have suffered more at the hands of the RAF than any of Her Majesty's enemies. What I propose is a vote of no-confidence in the RAF Transport Fleet, where if the poll goes against them, ACM Sir Jock Stirrup has to apologise to all those he has wronged on national television - naked."
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn/Forums/v...ic/t=9099.html
"Having spent 48 hours at Basrah APOD being treated like cattle and being lied to by the RLC movers (Quislings) about when the one Tristar serving theatre would be fixed in order to fly us home, I discovered the following when my wife picked me up from Brize:
- She had been told that the flight delays were caused by the security situation in Basrah. This was untrue, as the delay had been caused by the Crabs failing to have a back-up aircraft/plan when their Tristar broke.
- She was not allowed access to Brize as no manifest had been sent from Basrah (despite having her car and personal details on the guardroom computer from 6 weeks previously). Thus she and many other family members who had travelled long distances to pick up loved ones were stuck at the gate.
- While in the Guardroom she overheard the instruction being given to switch the passenger enquiry line to an empty line as someone had had the temerity to complain and 'they weren't paid to deal with that crap'. This resulted in many families being unable to find out arrival times/changes etc. and caused widespread distress.
If I had been responsible for such a catalogue of fcuk-ups and lies in my unit, I would have been sacked on the spot. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have suffered more at the hands of the RAF than any of Her Majesty's enemies. What I propose is a vote of no-confidence in the RAF Transport Fleet, where if the poll goes against them, ACM Sir Jock Stirrup has to apologise to all those he has wronged on national television - naked."
Suggest the person involved should vent his spleen against the squirearchy rather than the 'RAF AT fleet' in general? And remember, it's the mainly Pongo-run DTMA which decides upon a/c allocations and seat requirements - the AT squadrons have no say in the matter at all.
The incompetence of the Salvation Army who inhabit the pizza hut was clearly unacceptable; however, there were 'other things' going on at the time of which he may not have been aware.
The incompetence of the Salvation Army who inhabit the pizza hut was clearly unacceptable; however, there were 'other things' going on at the time of which he may not have been aware.
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Looking at some of the rants on ARRSE, I suggest that if the army aren't happy with our AT fleet then let the fcukers walk home. It isn't the squadrons fault if aircraft are not servicable, try the lack of spares for one. I try my best to ensure frames are servicable, but if we ain't got the bits it ain't going to happen. Just be patient "crab air" is doing it's best, but for some that will never be good enough.
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I have tried to promulgate the same information at Lineslime, as to the fact that we do the best with old kit and no spares.
Have to say though, that this is scant excuse for some of the diabolical treatment by movers, terminal staff, etc. If I had to wait 3 days for a return through Cyprus, as an Army chum of mine did, with absolutely no explanation as to the reason for the delay, and a complete 'can't be @rsed' attitude from the staff at the terminal I too would be pi$$ed off. Being told that your 'lucky your going home so I wouldn't moan' is ridiculous.
Why can't the terminal staff apply a little empathy and treat these people with a little more respect? It is often the only direct contact between Squaddy and Crab and if its a bad experience they all tend to think we're just an expensive joke who only work when we feel like it. Like it or not, the RAF has to address these 'customer service' issues, or face the (further) loss of respect from our other services.
Have to say though, that this is scant excuse for some of the diabolical treatment by movers, terminal staff, etc. If I had to wait 3 days for a return through Cyprus, as an Army chum of mine did, with absolutely no explanation as to the reason for the delay, and a complete 'can't be @rsed' attitude from the staff at the terminal I too would be pi$$ed off. Being told that your 'lucky your going home so I wouldn't moan' is ridiculous.
Why can't the terminal staff apply a little empathy and treat these people with a little more respect? It is often the only direct contact between Squaddy and Crab and if its a bad experience they all tend to think we're just an expensive joke who only work when we feel like it. Like it or not, the RAF has to address these 'customer service' issues, or face the (further) loss of respect from our other services.
Champagne anyone...?
Unfortunately the "customer-facing" 
element of the RAF AT fleet can sometimes leave a bit to be desired. Whilst check in staff etc do sometimes receive a fair bit of unecessary abuse their attitude towards pax can, at times, be appalling. Mistreating dependents, as detailed in the original post, is just frankly crap and those responsible need a good kick up the arse/sacking.
As for blaming the whole AT fleet in general - a little harsh I fancy. The demands on the AT fleet are driven by DTMA and the demands of the "customer" in general. If the army demands that we supply 10 aircraft for Exercise Eagles' Pants they shouldn't be too surprised when it becomes difficult for us to magic up more aircraft to roulement their troops on Ops. You gets what you pay for.
Still, a vote of no confidemce from the army? That'd be a terrible blow. Bit like the local burglars telling you they're not going to break into your house cos your TVs not good enough to nick.
element of the RAF AT fleet can sometimes leave a bit to be desired. Whilst check in staff etc do sometimes receive a fair bit of unecessary abuse their attitude towards pax can, at times, be appalling. Mistreating dependents, as detailed in the original post, is just frankly crap and those responsible need a good kick up the arse/sacking.As for blaming the whole AT fleet in general - a little harsh I fancy. The demands on the AT fleet are driven by DTMA and the demands of the "customer" in general. If the army demands that we supply 10 aircraft for Exercise Eagles' Pants they shouldn't be too surprised when it becomes difficult for us to magic up more aircraft to roulement their troops on Ops. You gets what you pay for.
Still, a vote of no confidemce from the army? That'd be a terrible blow. Bit like the local burglars telling you they're not going to break into your house cos your TVs not good enough to nick.
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Will never forget the experience of watching an SAC walk out in the departure lounge, and call out "Walker......Walker........is there a Walker in the lounge?" A Warrant Officer strutted up to the said SAC and shout "OI, PROPELLER BOY........follow me!"
Although unable to hear the rant, it was fairly obvious to all the severity of the b*llocking he was getting. After appearing back at the mic, the next announcement went along the lines of
"Would Maj Gen Walker please make himself known. Thank you."
Priceless
Although unable to hear the rant, it was fairly obvious to all the severity of the b*llocking he was getting. After appearing back at the mic, the next announcement went along the lines of
"Would Maj Gen Walker please make himself known. Thank you."
Priceless
As a one-time AT driver I can attest to the often poor attitude of the Movers. I too have heard them 'make up' stories to account for a delay or whatever and it is bloody poor behaviour.
I once insisted on going into the terminal PA to the pax in person to explain a short tech delay and the Movers nearly had a fit! I insisted, carried out the PA and had an Army capatin approach me and say thank you. My PA had just contradicted some bull**** that the movers had PA'd moments earlier!
I once insisted on going into the terminal PA to the pax in person to explain a short tech delay and the Movers nearly had a fit! I insisted, carried out the PA and had an Army capatin approach me and say thank you. My PA had just contradicted some bull**** that the movers had PA'd moments earlier!
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RAFLOO.... If you cant get any spares in a decent time how do you expect the squadron grubbers to fix the aeroplanes?? There is a limit to Araldite and sticky back plastic. Think before you call them morons 
Red On, Green On
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You've been in Basra 6 months (ie since Nov 04 - away for Xmas), during which time you've worked watch-on, stop -on most of the time, with sand everywhere, living in accom. that UK farmers could not keep a pig in.
While you've been there you had the locals chucking their RPGs at you, detonating IEDs by the roadside, and generally being charming. You've probably been counting the minutes til you land and see wife+ kids/girlfriend/boyfriend since the day you arrived (and so have they)
And then you and the missus get given the run-around for two days - and are expected to be gracious with it.
Can't say I blame the lads at all - even if the spares situation is down to "budget issues".
While you've been there you had the locals chucking their RPGs at you, detonating IEDs by the roadside, and generally being charming. You've probably been counting the minutes til you land and see wife+ kids/girlfriend/boyfriend since the day you arrived (and so have they)
And then you and the missus get given the run-around for two days - and are expected to be gracious with it.
Can't say I blame the lads at all - even if the spares situation is down to "budget issues".
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Conversely, I've also seen an Army SNCO put a couple of troops on an 'Auswitz style' frieght train in order to guard equipment. 8 days of compo ration and a "see you in blighty" was all they got.................
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raftoilet
Yet again you appear to be a complete to$$er of the highest order. I suppose you expect the squdrons to leave the aircraft on the ground untill requestd to go and pick some troops up. It has nothing to do with Mr/Mrs/Miss mover driving a piece of motorised equipment into the bloody thing, or the fact some directionless feathered tit decides to punch a hole in a leading edge or inspect the inside of an engine (en mass) or that messers Rolls & Royce have not yet designed the everlasting, unbreakable engine. Just to make the point again "YOU SIR ARE A KN*B OF THE HIGHEST ORDER".
As for termial staff leading people on a merry dickdance, I for one have been on the receiving end on a couple of occasions. It is inexcusable and I suppose they don't really want to admit to their mover bretheren being the cause due to careless driving.
Yet again you appear to be a complete to$$er of the highest order. I suppose you expect the squdrons to leave the aircraft on the ground untill requestd to go and pick some troops up. It has nothing to do with Mr/Mrs/Miss mover driving a piece of motorised equipment into the bloody thing, or the fact some directionless feathered tit decides to punch a hole in a leading edge or inspect the inside of an engine (en mass) or that messers Rolls & Royce have not yet designed the everlasting, unbreakable engine. Just to make the point again "YOU SIR ARE A KN*B OF THE HIGHEST ORDER".
As for termial staff leading people on a merry dickdance, I for one have been on the receiving end on a couple of occasions. It is inexcusable and I suppose they don't really want to admit to their mover bretheren being the cause due to careless driving.
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I sincerely doubt that complaints posted here, or elsewhere on public internet forums will get any response, apology or any official reaction whatsoever.
I offer the following as the offices and personnel I would visit if I felt as wronged as the original poster surely does:
1. Any queries about visitor arrival procedures at RAF Brize Norton may be directed during normal working hours to the RAF Police on Tel. 01993 896218 / 896137. Ask for a copy of the correct procedures for access to the unit by civilians - in writing.
2. Contact the Corporate Communications Office:
RAF Brize Norton
Carterton
Oxfordshire
OX18 3LX
Corporate Communications Officer (CCO) Tel. 01993 897779
E-mail - [email protected]
Tell them that you wish to lodge a formal complaint, then follow-up with a letter explaining the situation.
If you are not happy with the reply then the CCO will be able to give you information about how your complaint can be dealt with at higher levels.
I agree that the handling of the situation was unacceptable, but would not aportion blame until all the facts had been gathered. If the author is really upset, and not just after putting-down the RAF, or AT aircrews in particular, then he should follow appropriate channels. Those who know me know I would - the hierarchy don't know there's a problem if you don't tell them.
I offer the following as the offices and personnel I would visit if I felt as wronged as the original poster surely does:
1. Any queries about visitor arrival procedures at RAF Brize Norton may be directed during normal working hours to the RAF Police on Tel. 01993 896218 / 896137. Ask for a copy of the correct procedures for access to the unit by civilians - in writing.
2. Contact the Corporate Communications Office:
RAF Brize Norton
Carterton
Oxfordshire
OX18 3LX
Corporate Communications Officer (CCO) Tel. 01993 897779
E-mail - [email protected]
Tell them that you wish to lodge a formal complaint, then follow-up with a letter explaining the situation.
If you are not happy with the reply then the CCO will be able to give you information about how your complaint can be dealt with at higher levels.
I agree that the handling of the situation was unacceptable, but would not aportion blame until all the facts had been gathered. If the author is really upset, and not just after putting-down the RAF, or AT aircrews in particular, then he should follow appropriate channels. Those who know me know I would - the hierarchy don't know there's a problem if you don't tell them.
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AT Fleet
Having been a Mover for 23yrs and served all over the world in various posts, it never ceases to amaze me at the amount of jellyfish the RAF have...
AT Fleet::::::
I never took it for granted that an aircraft would stay serviceable long to fly home the pax i had just checked in...If it went Pete Tong then Ce La Vie.....
Running a busy pax section calls for tact and diplomacy...at all times whether it be with pax or crew...
I for one have used the No ranks call out mode on numerous occasions..for speed of getting things sorted out...Opening sentence always stated that, no-one ever complained, obviously those holding Air Rank or Eqv were treated with greater distinction..
JHF:::::
The crews on the chopper fleet really got to know movers well during the early days of JHSU...there was always banter between us esp in FI...where the generous use of the Brevity Code could often be heard on comms...pity some of the AT Fleet didnt work as close as this... then again bad apples in all barrels i guess..
Army::::
Op Banner was always a classic screw up on AT resources, Army would book a VC10 to do a Tristar job or a Mk1 Herc to do a Mk3 task....Army could never comprehend that cant put a gallon into a litre container...
Jointery was a "new buzz word" few years back....i had been doing jointery since 1981, not a new concept, just updated...sadly some people are to far up there own dark tunnels to appreciate others around them....
Aircrew need everyone, Techies need everyone, Movers need everyone....live and work together happily...
Take time out to understand what they do with the crap kit that is supplied...
Rgds
Mr.....
Ex Mover
AT Fleet::::::
I never took it for granted that an aircraft would stay serviceable long to fly home the pax i had just checked in...If it went Pete Tong then Ce La Vie.....
Running a busy pax section calls for tact and diplomacy...at all times whether it be with pax or crew...
I for one have used the No ranks call out mode on numerous occasions..for speed of getting things sorted out...Opening sentence always stated that, no-one ever complained, obviously those holding Air Rank or Eqv were treated with greater distinction..
JHF:::::
The crews on the chopper fleet really got to know movers well during the early days of JHSU...there was always banter between us esp in FI...where the generous use of the Brevity Code could often be heard on comms...pity some of the AT Fleet didnt work as close as this... then again bad apples in all barrels i guess..
Army::::
Op Banner was always a classic screw up on AT resources, Army would book a VC10 to do a Tristar job or a Mk1 Herc to do a Mk3 task....Army could never comprehend that cant put a gallon into a litre container...
Jointery was a "new buzz word" few years back....i had been doing jointery since 1981, not a new concept, just updated...sadly some people are to far up there own dark tunnels to appreciate others around them....
Aircrew need everyone, Techies need everyone, Movers need everyone....live and work together happily...
Take time out to understand what they do with the crap kit that is supplied...
Rgds
Mr.....
Ex Mover
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Take time out to understand what they do with the crap kit that is supplied...
Fat Albert
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Rafloo you really are one of the biggest to$$ers ever to grace these forums. Oh and if you profess to being just a wind up merchant you are cr@p at that too.
If you had any real idea of what goes on day to day on any working squadron in todays airforce then you wouldnt post such cr@p. By your inane posts you are doing down some extremely professional and hard working people doing their level best in difficult circumstances.
Do as your user name suggests and flush yourself away
D-IFF_ident - Perfect answer, wish I had your patience.
If you had any real idea of what goes on day to day on any working squadron in todays airforce then you wouldnt post such cr@p. By your inane posts you are doing down some extremely professional and hard working people doing their level best in difficult circumstances.
Do as your user name suggests and flush yourself away
D-IFF_ident - Perfect answer, wish I had your patience.
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I have every sympathy with those who have experienced the treatment metered out by those at Brize Norton. I have been routed through Brize many times and have been shocked at the manner in which we are treated. Even when wearing flying kit I feel that I am being treated as nothing more than an inconvenience. I truly feel ashamed that so many soldiers and sailors perceive this as the real face of the RAF. Even when getting onto a serviceable 10 or Tristar the first experience is an SAC steward/ess shouting oi..you...sit ..here.
I want to balance this by finding at least one positive thing to say of my 20 years of RAFAT travel, but I can't think of one. After all, rudeness is a choice, being polite and courteous costs nothing yet I can only recall slow, rude impolite, and discourteous treatment.
I want to balance this by finding at least one positive thing to say of my 20 years of RAFAT travel, but I can't think of one. After all, rudeness is a choice, being polite and courteous costs nothing yet I can only recall slow, rude impolite, and discourteous treatment.
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Saw a soldier and his family arriving at Brize the other week for a flight back to Basra ex RandR. He goes to book his vehicle and family on at the Pizzahut. The wife does not have any photo ID so the only way she can go onto camp is to be escorted. No problem as the husband is military and will escort her.
BUT he will not be able to escort her off camp so she is refused entry. The soldier has to say his good byes in the Pizzahut to wife and young kids.
As for giving out duff gen over the PA. Is it better to say that your aircraft is knackered but the techies are doing their best with a bit of bodge tape and a big hammer or "French ATC delay".
Which do you think will cause the least worry to the pax?
BUT he will not be able to escort her off camp so she is refused entry. The soldier has to say his good byes in the Pizzahut to wife and young kids.
As for giving out duff gen over the PA. Is it better to say that your aircraft is knackered but the techies are doing their best with a bit of bodge tape and a big hammer or "French ATC delay".
Which do you think will cause the least worry to the pax?