Retainment or recruitment?
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BK,
I apprechiate it, yes my point was lost. However i feel that if i had started a post saying 'RAF Scholar has doubts' i would have had a completely different reception and might not have been perceived to be arrogant, ignorant and basically a waster.
Thank you Teetering Head but the case was never yours to rest. Rather than debating whether or not i was a worthy scholar why not debate whether the RAF does need to change its recruitment strategies?
I apprechiate it, yes my point was lost. However i feel that if i had started a post saying 'RAF Scholar has doubts' i would have had a completely different reception and might not have been perceived to be arrogant, ignorant and basically a waster.
Thank you Teetering Head but the case was never yours to rest. Rather than debating whether or not i was a worthy scholar why not debate whether the RAF does need to change its recruitment strategies?
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I cannot see the RAF changing its recuitment strategies in the near future, at the moment, the RAF has more applicants for pilot that it can shake a stick at. Whilst this is the case and the numbers required remain low, the RAF can pick and choose its aircrew (Not saying they make the right choice.... but you get my drift!)
BK
Off to go and fly the Queen Bee now, hurrah, the sun is shining and the wind is straight down the runway!
BK
Off to go and fly the Queen Bee now, hurrah, the sun is shining and the wind is straight down the runway!
I'm sorry Fuzz but I'm still not convinced. Quadruple A at A-level is very impressive, (even considering the sniggering from society about the loss of the 'Gold standard').
Dedicated CCF member?... fine. Gliding scholarship?.... good stuff.
But these are mere small steps in the right direction. Do you seem to think this makes you instantly qualified to pitch up to flying training? I still don't see how you can suggest that:
1. The AFCO should have been more proactive in recruiting you.
2. The RAF should change its recruiting strategy.
From my previous post you can see we don't need to recruit pilots at all, the job sells itself to thousands of motivated keen-as-mustard teenagers who dream about military flying and (in the RAF's case) being an officer.... and only a few of these kids make it!
Dedicated CCF member?... fine. Gliding scholarship?.... good stuff.
But these are mere small steps in the right direction. Do you seem to think this makes you instantly qualified to pitch up to flying training? I still don't see how you can suggest that:
1. The AFCO should have been more proactive in recruiting you.
2. The RAF should change its recruiting strategy.
From my previous post you can see we don't need to recruit pilots at all, the job sells itself to thousands of motivated keen-as-mustard teenagers who dream about military flying and (in the RAF's case) being an officer.... and only a few of these kids make it!
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"Firstly Santiago15, Quote "VERY SELECTIVE". If they are very selective then why not put the effort in to keep those that they have selected?"
Entirely my point f**cknuts. Once they've selected you, effort is very much a one way street. It comes from you!! Guys would scratch their own eyeballs out to be pilots in the RAF. Sitting at home waiting for a 'recent Cranwell graduate' to call you with your 4 A Levels makes you a worse prospect than them. Blood, sweat and tears will spank your proclaimed As.
What OASC should have done, as they frequently do to others, is told you to go away for a year or so and come back when you've grown up. You were a mis-selction!!
S15
Entirely my point f**cknuts. Once they've selected you, effort is very much a one way street. It comes from you!! Guys would scratch their own eyeballs out to be pilots in the RAF. Sitting at home waiting for a 'recent Cranwell graduate' to call you with your 4 A Levels makes you a worse prospect than them. Blood, sweat and tears will spank your proclaimed As.
What OASC should have done, as they frequently do to others, is told you to go away for a year or so and come back when you've grown up. You were a mis-selction!!
S15
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Fuzzmaster
From your perspective at the age of 17, it does appear that the RAF has no interest in holding onto you and I guess that it must be pretty upsetting.
However, one point you have failed to take on board is the investment the RAF would require of you. The RAF EXPECTS potential recruits to undertake a lengthy return of service, especially for aircrew and although it all seems a bit daunting signing on for 12 years, if you have such a healthy interest in the job, you should know that!
Another point is that why should the RAF chase you and keep you interested? As it has been said before, there are thousands of people applying for the job and I doubt whether most have just read the glossy brochure and then expected the job to come running to them - they have made a point of finding out for themselves whether it is the right job for them and used their initiative to get information about it.
Sorry if this doesn't sound too good, but I think that your opinion of what the RAF is and does is slightly different from the reality!
From your perspective at the age of 17, it does appear that the RAF has no interest in holding onto you and I guess that it must be pretty upsetting.
However, one point you have failed to take on board is the investment the RAF would require of you. The RAF EXPECTS potential recruits to undertake a lengthy return of service, especially for aircrew and although it all seems a bit daunting signing on for 12 years, if you have such a healthy interest in the job, you should know that!
Another point is that why should the RAF chase you and keep you interested? As it has been said before, there are thousands of people applying for the job and I doubt whether most have just read the glossy brochure and then expected the job to come running to them - they have made a point of finding out for themselves whether it is the right job for them and used their initiative to get information about it.
Sorry if this doesn't sound too good, but I think that your opinion of what the RAF is and does is slightly different from the reality!
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This isn't going to be my most elequont post thanks to a lack of time and the anger that's welling up inside me.
I speak from the perspective of a student who's only desire in life has been to be an RAF Officer and Pilot. Sadly my eyesight precludes me from the latter but from my position as a UAS groundie it's looking likely that I'll fullfill and least the former ambition. I've also been lucky enough to spend time in the back seat of Hawks and and F-15 which, combined with my PPL means I have a reasonable idea of what I enjoy.
Fuzzmaster, what you have utterly failed to comprehend is that people like me don't just 'fancy the idea' of a job as RAF aircrew, it's what we have almost lived for. It's a complete burning desire that will never be fully extinguished, I'd kill for an opportunity like you had. This is the type of drive most young guys who apply have and almost all the guys who are aircrew have (or at least had). I make no apologies for the strength of feeling expressed here or for the flaming you've recieved from others.
You simply never deserved what you were offered and it's a damn good job you bailed out before crunch time.'
I speak from the perspective of a student who's only desire in life has been to be an RAF Officer and Pilot. Sadly my eyesight precludes me from the latter but from my position as a UAS groundie it's looking likely that I'll fullfill and least the former ambition. I've also been lucky enough to spend time in the back seat of Hawks and and F-15 which, combined with my PPL means I have a reasonable idea of what I enjoy.
Fuzzmaster, what you have utterly failed to comprehend is that people like me don't just 'fancy the idea' of a job as RAF aircrew, it's what we have almost lived for. It's a complete burning desire that will never be fully extinguished, I'd kill for an opportunity like you had. This is the type of drive most young guys who apply have and almost all the guys who are aircrew have (or at least had). I make no apologies for the strength of feeling expressed here or for the flaming you've recieved from others.
You simply never deserved what you were offered and it's a damn good job you bailed out before crunch time.'
Oh dear, it seems someone has actually listened to government propaganda and still believes in the value of A-Levels. Take it from one who has an inside knowledge of the education system, A-Levels now, aren't what they were worth 10 years ago. As you can see, no marks are deducted anymore for poor use of language, grammar, spelling and punctuation!
On a different note, have to agree with the main thrust of what almost everyone else has written. If you want to get into the forces with a Queen's Commission, then, even if you're not trying for selection as Aircrew, you have to put in 110% effort. You, as an individual, have to do the legwork. No-one will hand you anything on a plate. To be honest fuzzy, you're beginning to sound like another whinger we used to have on here called Admin Guru! You're not a relation are you?
On a different note, have to agree with the main thrust of what almost everyone else has written. If you want to get into the forces with a Queen's Commission, then, even if you're not trying for selection as Aircrew, you have to put in 110% effort. You, as an individual, have to do the legwork. No-one will hand you anything on a plate. To be honest fuzzy, you're beginning to sound like another whinger we used to have on here called Admin Guru! You're not a relation are you?
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Airborne artist, hey you certainly aren't an old fart are you, because if you are then so must I be! I have to agree with you since I too (as you know) was desperate to be a military pilot, so desperate that I joined the Senior Service to do it! I was chopped but darned glad of the chance I can tell you! The RAF will always need aircrew (let us not explore the UAV question at tne moment) and it has no shortage of those wanting to apply. The same is true to a lesser extent for RAF Police and PTIs and no, it cannot be compared with a civilian organisation (even though some would like it to be!).
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Fuzz,
Unfortunately, you are sadly typical of today's bone-idle self-centred teenage oxygen theives who expect everything to be handed to them on a plate, and feel that 4 A's in a rigged, impossible-to-fail excuse for an exam means that the world owes you a living.
It doesn't.
Nor will it give you one.
You are in for a big shock, whatever career you choose.
If a 12 yr commitment is too much for you, you are DEFINITELY not what we are looking for. Has it occurred to you that maybe the board had a question mark over your commitment and initiative, and left you alone for a while to see how you'd react?
Seems like RAF recruitment is working just fine to me. It weeded you out.
16B
Unfortunately, you are sadly typical of today's bone-idle self-centred teenage oxygen theives who expect everything to be handed to them on a plate, and feel that 4 A's in a rigged, impossible-to-fail excuse for an exam means that the world owes you a living.
It doesn't.
Nor will it give you one.
You are in for a big shock, whatever career you choose.
If a 12 yr commitment is too much for you, you are DEFINITELY not what we are looking for. Has it occurred to you that maybe the board had a question mark over your commitment and initiative, and left you alone for a while to see how you'd react?
Seems like RAF recruitment is working just fine to me. It weeded you out.
16B
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So the RAF careers office found better things to do than actively recruit the 500 or so applicants to pass through their doors in the year. How much did Fuzzball try to make contact with the RAF careers office, the nearest RAF unit, get flying on many different types using his cadet status? As I recall, the RAF didn't actively recruit me either, I had to get off my a@r5e and go get myself a place at IOT, then pass that course before I even got near an aircraft. We're trying to get rid of highly capable, experienced operators, not recruit whinging children.
For the love of all that is aviation, my blood boileth over.
For the love of all that is aviation, my blood boileth over.
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Fuzzchild,
You, quite clearly, do not have the right stuff for a career in aviation. Becoming a pilot in the RAF demands the highest levels of self-motivation and dedication. If you baulk at a 12 year commitment then we are definitely not for you - and you are not for us. However, I can assure you that for all but the lucky few, a career in civil aviation from scratch is even harder to achieve. Some guys work for 15 or 20 years+ in other jobs to fund their flying aspirations before finally getting the one job they've been dreaming about since they were a kid. You are owed nothing by anybody in this business until you have proved yourself.
I wish you success in whatever career you choose - but please don't delude yourself that you could have made it. You have shown us all that you couldn't.
You, quite clearly, do not have the right stuff for a career in aviation. Becoming a pilot in the RAF demands the highest levels of self-motivation and dedication. If you baulk at a 12 year commitment then we are definitely not for you - and you are not for us. However, I can assure you that for all but the lucky few, a career in civil aviation from scratch is even harder to achieve. Some guys work for 15 or 20 years+ in other jobs to fund their flying aspirations before finally getting the one job they've been dreaming about since they were a kid. You are owed nothing by anybody in this business until you have proved yourself.
I wish you success in whatever career you choose - but please don't delude yourself that you could have made it. You have shown us all that you couldn't.
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"My commitment is to myself not to the RAF or any one else"
As has already been mentioned in this forum, the word is commitment. Although not a Light Blue man I have instructed in the Dark Blue for 20% of my 2500 hours and am quite happy to tell you young fuzzmaster that commitment in a succesful military aviator is to not only himslef but his coursemates, his instructors and also the Service within which he serves.
You sound like a spoilt youngster, typical of your generation, whom have no dedication and very short attention spans, the RAF would appear to be well rid of your precious self, still it reminds of a little joke,
"Whats the difference between a Sea Harrier FRS 2 and it's pilot?
"The FRS 2 stops whining when it's shut down!"i
As has already been mentioned in this forum, the word is commitment. Although not a Light Blue man I have instructed in the Dark Blue for 20% of my 2500 hours and am quite happy to tell you young fuzzmaster that commitment in a succesful military aviator is to not only himslef but his coursemates, his instructors and also the Service within which he serves.
You sound like a spoilt youngster, typical of your generation, whom have no dedication and very short attention spans, the RAF would appear to be well rid of your precious self, still it reminds of a little joke,
"Whats the difference between a Sea Harrier FRS 2 and it's pilot?
"The FRS 2 stops whining when it's shut down!"i
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I fear the point that i was trying to make has been lost. I know I am not suited to the RAF which is why i turned down the scholarship, so having everyone tell me that i am not is quite reassuring.
Whether you agree with my decision or not is not what I wanted to discuss, neither is whether or not I am destined to work at Mcdonalds. I know what the RAF demands and knew it was not for me.
If A-Levels are rigged and immpossible to fail why dont more people come out with good grades?
I have worked my @rse off to get what i did and gave it my all at OASC and yes i got a foot-hold in becoming a pilot, and yes in the end i did not want it enough. I would also like to say I am far from the average teenager and am most definately not bone idle. The only thing i was saying was that from my perspective it seemed that the RAF had lost interest, especially when you consider all the great offers many other students recieve. Maybe if i was older and more mature the prospect of a 16 year commitment (4 at uni then 12 in service) would not be as daunting. But like i said i was only seventeen and to any seventeen year old fours at uni seems a huge commitment let alone the next 16 years of your life.
Whether you agree with my decision or not is not what I wanted to discuss, neither is whether or not I am destined to work at Mcdonalds. I know what the RAF demands and knew it was not for me.
If A-Levels are rigged and immpossible to fail why dont more people come out with good grades?
I have worked my @rse off to get what i did and gave it my all at OASC and yes i got a foot-hold in becoming a pilot, and yes in the end i did not want it enough. I would also like to say I am far from the average teenager and am most definately not bone idle. The only thing i was saying was that from my perspective it seemed that the RAF had lost interest, especially when you consider all the great offers many other students recieve. Maybe if i was older and more mature the prospect of a 16 year commitment (4 at uni then 12 in service) would not be as daunting. But like i said i was only seventeen and to any seventeen year old fours at uni seems a huge commitment let alone the next 16 years of your life.
Champagne anyone...?
Brain Potter - if you are who I think are (can't remember the username 
) then all I have to say to you is "Lethargic and Disinterested". Made me the man I am today 
If you're not who I think you are then that will mean nothing to you.
Fuzz - tragic to hear the RAF shan't be securing your services. You comment that 16 years is huge commitment to any 17 year old. This may well be the case but it doesn't stop thousands of them applying every year does it?
.......move on.
) then all I have to say to you is "Lethargic and Disinterested". Made me the man I am today If you're not who I think you are then that will mean nothing to you.Fuzz - tragic to hear the RAF shan't be securing your services. You comment that 16 years is huge commitment to any 17 year old. This may well be the case but it doesn't stop thousands of them applying every year does it?
.......move on.
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Fuzz
My condolences to whichever University professor is saddled with marking your written work; poor grammar and spelling seem to be your forte. (Please note the use of "I" as opposed to "i").
No loss to HM Forces.
My condolences to whichever University professor is saddled with marking your written work; poor grammar and spelling seem to be your forte. (Please note the use of "I" as opposed to "i").
No loss to HM Forces.
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WOW everyone is so negative.
Can everone just stop getting shot!
ATF
ps. It takes me forever to write anything on pprune as I have to keep refering to my Dictionary just in case I make a spelling mistake. People do seem to get very hung up on niff naff and triv or do I mean attention to detail
Can everone just stop getting shot!
ATF
ps. It takes me forever to write anything on pprune as I have to keep refering to my Dictionary just in case I make a spelling mistake. People do seem to get very hung up on niff naff and triv or do I mean attention to detail
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After Albert the first's point I fell that I should come clean;
After the grammitcal lesson I recieved from my first post I have endeavoured to include subtle grammatical errors in each of my subsequent posts. Personally I find it quite funny that the vast majority of comments were related to my intelligence and personality. Better still was the renouncement of the education system, I mean how could some one of my intelligence get A's? Those who have been offering me career guidance I am grateful but I think that it is a little bit sad that some were so quick to judge, may be we are not quite as sophisticated as we all like to think.
After the grammitcal lesson I recieved from my first post I have endeavoured to include subtle grammatical errors in each of my subsequent posts. Personally I find it quite funny that the vast majority of comments were related to my intelligence and personality. Better still was the renouncement of the education system, I mean how could some one of my intelligence get A's? Those who have been offering me career guidance I am grateful but I think that it is a little bit sad that some were so quick to judge, may be we are not quite as sophisticated as we all like to think.
fm
You felt that you couldn't 'commit' yourself to 12 years in the RAF, so you didn't join. On that basis you were quite right to do so, and both you and the RAF have been saved some heartache downstream. Flying in the RAF is much more than a hard and demanding job. Many people have already discussed the level of 'commitment' required to join and succeed in todays military. It is worth bearing in mind that anyone joining the RAF to fly can be expected, if necessary, to take actions such as turning back into a 6G fight, while outnumbered, press on through to try to reach the target etc, with the prospect of having to make THE ULTIMATE COMMITMENT while doing so! And you didn't like the idea of 12 years!!
Nuff said!
You felt that you couldn't 'commit' yourself to 12 years in the RAF, so you didn't join. On that basis you were quite right to do so, and both you and the RAF have been saved some heartache downstream. Flying in the RAF is much more than a hard and demanding job. Many people have already discussed the level of 'commitment' required to join and succeed in todays military. It is worth bearing in mind that anyone joining the RAF to fly can be expected, if necessary, to take actions such as turning back into a 6G fight, while outnumbered, press on through to try to reach the target etc, with the prospect of having to make THE ULTIMATE COMMITMENT while doing so! And you didn't like the idea of 12 years!!
Nuff said!
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Petulent youth! I assume that Fuzzmaster relates to the fact that you have just mastered the art of shaving! Let us know when your b***s have dropped.
You've made your rather childish and weak point, failed to understand the criteria that makes military aircrew what they are and insist on responding to idle banter - in sum, even if you had persisted and OASC had scored you sufficiently to place you on the IOTC, you would have been weeded out fairly early on and certainly, from reading between the lines, post Field Leadership Camp. Ever tried a 22 km hill race with parts of a chariot on your back?
I know, I chopped many similar to you when I was given charge of the axe only a couple of years ago.
My only regret today; we can look forward to many more years of unreadable proposals from MBDA who insist in employing people who may have the noughts and ones sorted out but cannot string a coherent English sentence together. God help the procurement process.
Fuzzmaster, by the way, this is a forum for military aircrew, so since you are not, never will be and gave up on an opportunity to be one, please leave now.
Chest suitably off-loaded and now returning to my box!
You've made your rather childish and weak point, failed to understand the criteria that makes military aircrew what they are and insist on responding to idle banter - in sum, even if you had persisted and OASC had scored you sufficiently to place you on the IOTC, you would have been weeded out fairly early on and certainly, from reading between the lines, post Field Leadership Camp. Ever tried a 22 km hill race with parts of a chariot on your back?
I know, I chopped many similar to you when I was given charge of the axe only a couple of years ago.
My only regret today; we can look forward to many more years of unreadable proposals from MBDA who insist in employing people who may have the noughts and ones sorted out but cannot string a coherent English sentence together. God help the procurement process.
Fuzzmaster, by the way, this is a forum for military aircrew, so since you are not, never will be and gave up on an opportunity to be one, please leave now.
Chest suitably off-loaded and now returning to my box!
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Congratulations on your 'coming clean', young fuzzy-one. However, having come clean, you could have stopped your subtle insertions of poor grammar; we got the point, no need to continue its use throughout your post explaining its previous employment.
I'll get me thesaurus.
I'll get me thesaurus.