Pay as You Starve!
I refer to the astonishing news about the privately owned and operated Burger Bar at Lympstone.
How on Earth can any faceless f*ckwit try to wipe out nearly 40 years of history on the grounds of some new Ministry of We-can't-afford-it 'Initiative'? From what I read, 'Dutchy's' has provided not only the sort of grub actually wanted by his customers at all hours of day and night, but it has also managed to cope with all the stupidity of the huggy-fluffy Food Nazis, Health and Safety and other Eurocratic bullsh*t. More than that, however, its unique contribution to the morale of a close-knit corps must also be acknowledged.
Far from facing closure by mindless bureaucrats who would appear to wish to achieve a monopoly for their pet project, Dutchy's should be considered for whatever national award is available. I am totally appalled that the MoD should attempt an unreasonable restraint of trade in order to secure a monopoly for their own contractor. Those supporting 'Dutchy' should write to their MP (as is their right), demanding that this decision is reviewed. Moreover, in an election year when all the wretched government can do is to place increasing demands on the morale of all Service personnel, the value of people such as Dutchy who are prepared to contribute actively to the welfare of our Service personnel cannot be overestimated.
I hope that the Royals fight this daft decision with all the tenacity and fighting spirit for which they are justly renowned.
Later edited to add: The constituency MP for Lympstone (East Devon) is Mr Hugo Swire MP (Conservative). His website is http://www.hugoswire.org.uk/ ; this also includes contact details.
How on Earth can any faceless f*ckwit try to wipe out nearly 40 years of history on the grounds of some new Ministry of We-can't-afford-it 'Initiative'? From what I read, 'Dutchy's' has provided not only the sort of grub actually wanted by his customers at all hours of day and night, but it has also managed to cope with all the stupidity of the huggy-fluffy Food Nazis, Health and Safety and other Eurocratic bullsh*t. More than that, however, its unique contribution to the morale of a close-knit corps must also be acknowledged.
Far from facing closure by mindless bureaucrats who would appear to wish to achieve a monopoly for their pet project, Dutchy's should be considered for whatever national award is available. I am totally appalled that the MoD should attempt an unreasonable restraint of trade in order to secure a monopoly for their own contractor. Those supporting 'Dutchy' should write to their MP (as is their right), demanding that this decision is reviewed. Moreover, in an election year when all the wretched government can do is to place increasing demands on the morale of all Service personnel, the value of people such as Dutchy who are prepared to contribute actively to the welfare of our Service personnel cannot be overestimated.
I hope that the Royals fight this daft decision with all the tenacity and fighting spirit for which they are justly renowned.
Later edited to add: The constituency MP for Lympstone (East Devon) is Mr Hugo Swire MP (Conservative). His website is http://www.hugoswire.org.uk/ ; this also includes contact details.
Last edited by BEagle; 3rd Aug 2004 at 08:19.
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FOOD
I was on the end of a contracted out food system at RAF Swinderby back in the 70s and it was awful. Lunch to be fair was OK but the evening meal was not worth the walk I survived by eating in the pub at the end of the road.
We had a contracted out system of similar standard at the BBC as well. We ended up with Pizza delivery people wandering round Television Centre trying to find the right people! Management tried to put a stop to it so we ended up meeting them at the gate!
I wonder what would happen if 50 pizza bikes ended up at the guardhouse at the same time.
We had a contracted out system of similar standard at the BBC as well. We ended up with Pizza delivery people wandering round Television Centre trying to find the right people! Management tried to put a stop to it so we ended up meeting them at the gate!
I wonder what would happen if 50 pizza bikes ended up at the guardhouse at the same time.
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Military vs Civvy Catering
I've heard plenty of comments about food quality since joining up. The bases where the most people have wanted full PAYD because of the poor food have all been run by contractors - those with military chefs and stewards have been excellent. So, surely, contractors running PAYD is a guaranteed way of stopping anyone eating in the messes, and those same contractors aren't going to make any money! If we're going to do it, then let's have military catering staff with, if necessary, ONE contractor per mess to stop the Chef doing anything silly with the budget.
BCH
BCH
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If I recall correctly, the RAF Chefs have, as part of their course for promotion to Sgt, training which includes catering budgets and cost/resource accounting. Considering the small percentage of the daily messing charge the Messes actually receive, I think they do very well to provide the high standards we see at most establishments. I stand by my criticisms of contractorised messing though!
SBG
SBG
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Having spent many years on Tonka Sqn's and plenty of time with the Yanks and Canadians in various places around the world including permanent locations in their home land, I think that mixed eating establishments work.
At each location they have their own messes (Officers Club, WO &SNCOs Club and erks club) where they can enjoy a drink with each other.
They also have mixed rank clubs where (by choice) they can mix with whom they want.
What I am trying to say is that they all eat well and every type of Chest popking establisment exists for the right moment at the right time.
I think we would do well to follow their idea - Money Allowing
At each location they have their own messes (Officers Club, WO &SNCOs Club and erks club) where they can enjoy a drink with each other.
They also have mixed rank clubs where (by choice) they can mix with whom they want.
What I am trying to say is that they all eat well and every type of Chest popking establisment exists for the right moment at the right time.
I think we would do well to follow their idea - Money Allowing
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As I see it, PAYD gives the contractors running messes something that every other company in the Capitalist World has... competition! As people have previously stated, if the customers (offrs, SNCOs or airmen) do not agree with the quality/quantity/selection of food they simply won't eat there anymore and the business/mess will lose money. Some people are doing this already and simply accepting the fact that they still pay their messing. I know of a great number of people here at 
who do just that, preferring to cook for themselves rather than put up with what can sometimes be a fairly poor standard of catering. I understand that the catering budget for the messes is tight and as a result the standard of ingredients may be compromised, however what I and several others do object to is poor standards of food preparation. Some examples:
1. Ordered chips at lunchtime last week. When they arrived, they had been reheated (several times!) and as a result were more like honeycombes full of oil than chips.
2. Friend ordered cheese baguette yesterday. Cheese Burger and chips arrives!
3. Vegetable selection last week comprising of drastically overcooked broccolli, lumpy mashed potato and rock hard roasties!
All of the above grumbles are not a result of under-funding, more a result of staff being generally sloppy. I really feel sometimes that the staff couldn't care less as they know full well that we have little choice in where we eat and that even if we do go elsewhere, we'll still be paying for the food that they serve!
Similar thing has happened behind our bar. ESS decided in their wisdom to withdraw the two most popular beers and replace them with 'extra cold' versions of the two remaining beers. If it wasn't for the bar prices in the mess, I doubt as many people would use it. A sad fact of life.
Think that just about sums it up.
who do just that, preferring to cook for themselves rather than put up with what can sometimes be a fairly poor standard of catering. I understand that the catering budget for the messes is tight and as a result the standard of ingredients may be compromised, however what I and several others do object to is poor standards of food preparation. Some examples:1. Ordered chips at lunchtime last week. When they arrived, they had been reheated (several times!) and as a result were more like honeycombes full of oil than chips.
2. Friend ordered cheese baguette yesterday. Cheese Burger and chips arrives!
3. Vegetable selection last week comprising of drastically overcooked broccolli, lumpy mashed potato and rock hard roasties!
All of the above grumbles are not a result of under-funding, more a result of staff being generally sloppy. I really feel sometimes that the staff couldn't care less as they know full well that we have little choice in where we eat and that even if we do go elsewhere, we'll still be paying for the food that they serve!
Similar thing has happened behind our bar. ESS decided in their wisdom to withdraw the two most popular beers and replace them with 'extra cold' versions of the two remaining beers. If it wasn't for the bar prices in the mess, I doubt as many people would use it. A sad fact of life.
Think that just about sums it up.
ESS? The people who boast:
ESS operates a revolutionary and innovative service solution for the provision of the Support Services of tomorrow. We have developed our "Best in Class" strategy, which focuses the very best of regional and worldwide resources on providing our clients and customers with the most innovative and cost effective service solutions. With our "Best in Class" partners we drive cost out of the supply chain to increase value, we instigate exciting new initiatives to achieve Operational Excellence, and we introduce systems, designed to maximise capital stewardship. We have developed integrated supplier customer collaborative support systems that have achieved previously unknown levels of savings, and increased value for all stakeholders.
And what does such self-congratulatory bull$hit mean? Cheap and nasty?
ESS operates a revolutionary and innovative service solution for the provision of the Support Services of tomorrow. We have developed our "Best in Class" strategy, which focuses the very best of regional and worldwide resources on providing our clients and customers with the most innovative and cost effective service solutions. With our "Best in Class" partners we drive cost out of the supply chain to increase value, we instigate exciting new initiatives to achieve Operational Excellence, and we introduce systems, designed to maximise capital stewardship. We have developed integrated supplier customer collaborative support systems that have achieved previously unknown levels of savings, and increased value for all stakeholders.
And what does such self-congratulatory bull$hit mean? Cheap and nasty?
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There seems to be some misunderstanding with what Pay As You Dine is about. It is choice, you have the option of taking or leaving it, there is no chips in place of noodles, or some such option. If you don't like it you do not have to have it! PAYD will live or die on the quality of the service, if it is not good enough...............!
BEagle
I do not have any knowledge of the Marines and how they are introducing PAYD but in the RAF there is choice. For instance, at RAF Halton, Peg's (an evening kebab wagon type facility) is being allowed to stay.
BEagle
I do not have any knowledge of the Marines and how they are introducing PAYD but in the RAF there is choice. For instance, at RAF Halton, Peg's (an evening kebab wagon type facility) is being allowed to stay.
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we drive cost out of the supply chain to increase value
SteveStephens, I think we're in an unusual position as it's either put up with the single c
p meal presented or find somewhere else to eat. At least non-veggies have a choice 'in-house', but I'd be interested to know how much of one.
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Having visited Henlow at the OM there, PAYD hasn't improved the quality of service or quality of food at all. The staff clearly didn't understand how PAYD worked, and all that happens is that you end up paying for every little extra option you have e.g an extra glass of orange juice at breakfast? - that's going to cost you.
Word on the street is Leuchars PAYD isn't great either. I can't comment on the JR side of things but from our side, its not a good idea.
Word on the street is Leuchars PAYD isn't great either. I can't comment on the JR side of things but from our side, its not a good idea.
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Stick to your mission.......
BEagle,
If that's ESS's Mission Statement then you have to hand it to them - they're bloody good at it.
But nowhere in there does it mention 'delivering quality to the customer'. It's all full of "cost effectiveness this" and "savings and increased value that",
Well done ESS on your job well done.
Now hows about doing the one we require?
Uncle G
If that's ESS's Mission Statement then you have to hand it to them - they're bloody good at it.
But nowhere in there does it mention 'delivering quality to the customer'. It's all full of "cost effectiveness this" and "savings and increased value that",
Well done ESS on your job well done.
Now hows about doing the one we require? Uncle G
1. The BS came from discovering ESS's website after a few seconds of Googling. Note that their 'satisfaction survey' only applies to the website design...
2. SteveStephens, I have not had any reason to visit Lympstone either. However, the website concerning Dutchy's is pretty clear. Anyway, the local MP has been informed about what's going on!
Back to happier days, hands up all those who remember Mary who used to run the real 'Dragon Room' in the OM at Valley? Many a student's late night appetite was satisfied with a couple of bratties and chips! Or the Steak Bar at RAFC Cranwell College Hall Mess back before Cranwell went comprehensive?
2. SteveStephens, I have not had any reason to visit Lympstone either. However, the website concerning Dutchy's is pretty clear. Anyway, the local MP has been informed about what's going on!
Back to happier days, hands up all those who remember Mary who used to run the real 'Dragon Room' in the OM at Valley? Many a student's late night appetite was satisfied with a couple of bratties and chips! Or the Steak Bar at RAFC Cranwell College Hall Mess back before Cranwell went comprehensive?
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A few years ago a kebab wagon used to park close to the NAAFI shop at Wyton, within easy reach of the married patch and the singlies accom.
The one day it disappeared to outside the base. That meant a considerable trek for those farthest away on the patch. On asking the question why?, the owner said that the NAAFI club complained [as is their wont] that they had the monopoly on base and the bratty wagon couldn't ply their wares - there was a good enough menu avaiable in their restaurant.
At happy hour I complained to the Staish [the firey one who was later tragically killed in a Canberra crash on base]. He got a menu from the bratty wagon, called the NAAFI restaurant manager to his presence and told him that if he provided the same menu, the bratty wagon stayed off base. The silly man argued [NOT a wise move] and told the Staish that he was within his rights to enforce the ban [an even WORSE move].
Within 24 hrs the bratty wagon was back on base!
RiP Reg...
The one day it disappeared to outside the base. That meant a considerable trek for those farthest away on the patch. On asking the question why?, the owner said that the NAAFI club complained [as is their wont] that they had the monopoly on base and the bratty wagon couldn't ply their wares - there was a good enough menu avaiable in their restaurant.
At happy hour I complained to the Staish [the firey one who was later tragically killed in a Canberra crash on base]. He got a menu from the bratty wagon, called the NAAFI restaurant manager to his presence and told him that if he provided the same menu, the bratty wagon stayed off base. The silly man argued [NOT a wise move] and told the Staish that he was within his rights to enforce the ban [an even WORSE move].
Within 24 hrs the bratty wagon was back on base!
RiP Reg...
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I have been out of the service for 15 years. Why did the powers to be decide to civilianize the mess services? At Middle Wallop for instance the food and standard of catering was excellent in all aspects but now I hear that the mess is in total chaos. Is it all about the almighty $? Why do the mess members put up with this b**lsh*t? Do the members have no say in the standard of service provided by these civilian cretins?
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Contract Food
KENNYR,
The rumours you have heard about the mess's at Wallop are true!. Never before would you have seen such crap food presented and dumped on a table in your life.
My main gripe is that as and ex-ranker I have no problems with accepting a no-frills service...however.....as I pay extra messing and my mess bill I would appreciate at least a little care and thought into my food.
A recent example was that there had been a fixed menu,day in day out on a two week cycle for the past 10 months!!!.
I can hear people saying that the livers in should get off their arses and sort it......granted.....however if we had even a handfull of military personnel involved things would be dramatically different.
Have stayed in numerous RAF and Army messes with military staff and found then generally excellent
The rumours you have heard about the mess's at Wallop are true!. Never before would you have seen such crap food presented and dumped on a table in your life.
My main gripe is that as and ex-ranker I have no problems with accepting a no-frills service...however.....as I pay extra messing and my mess bill I would appreciate at least a little care and thought into my food.
A recent example was that there had been a fixed menu,day in day out on a two week cycle for the past 10 months!!!.
I can hear people saying that the livers in should get off their arses and sort it......granted.....however if we had even a handfull of military personnel involved things would be dramatically different.
Have stayed in numerous RAF and Army messes with military staff and found then generally excellent
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No, we don't like it....but as with most contracts of this type these days, once the "trial" has started the project gathers its own momentum and we no longer have any say!
Service catering is at serious risk of going down the tubes the same way housing did when DHE took over. Remember Families Officers? Remember being able to get a works service done the same week as you submitted the request? Remember actually having someone you with whom you could sort out a problem face-to-face rather than some anonymous and endless queue to a call-centre?
Out with the new, back with the old, I say.....
SBG:
Service catering is at serious risk of going down the tubes the same way housing did when DHE took over. Remember Families Officers? Remember being able to get a works service done the same week as you submitted the request? Remember actually having someone you with whom you could sort out a problem face-to-face rather than some anonymous and endless queue to a call-centre?
Out with the new, back with the old, I say.....
SBG: