Pay as You Starve!
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MGBA,
Everything that is happening through PAYD is being mandated. As for the setting of prices.... the only reason the core menu stays low is that it has to fall in line with Standard Food Charges for other stations.... A La Carte menu prices are not hugely expensive in the grand scheme of things, but they are usually double the price of the core menu.
As sadly we don't have CORE menu Theakstons Best.... I can only presume that they will charge whatever they think they can get away with!
BK
Everything that is happening through PAYD is being mandated. As for the setting of prices.... the only reason the core menu stays low is that it has to fall in line with Standard Food Charges for other stations.... A La Carte menu prices are not hugely expensive in the grand scheme of things, but they are usually double the price of the core menu.
As sadly we don't have CORE menu Theakstons Best.... I can only presume that they will charge whatever they think they can get away with!
BK
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But will there be an independent monitoring organization or will we have to put up with Company "how do you rate our service?" smiley faces a la Little Chef?
And will these changes be forced upon us or will we be able to take a vote having discussed the pros and cons within the mess environment? Serious questions I am genuinely interested in.
Thanks,
MBGA
And will these changes be forced upon us or will we be able to take a vote having discussed the pros and cons within the mess environment? Serious questions I am genuinely interested in.
Thanks,
MBGA
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Serious answers...... we already have smiley faces (ok well, 1 to 5 scores) on the Customer Satisfaction Questionnaires
Was told yesterday that there will be no vote. It is all being discussed at Air Force Board level and changes will be compulsory!
BK
Was told yesterday that there will be no vote. It is all being discussed at Air Force Board level and changes will be compulsory!
BK
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See my previous post on page 2.
PAYD was driven by popular demand. You were warned at the time that it would all end in tears. And now look at the mess (deliberate pun) you have gotten into!
The initial push for PAYD was via the AMPLT reports (and equivalents in other Services). the only way you could change things now is to SHOUT LOUD AND LONG. It would be a brave CAS who would totally ignore the clamour (mind you, I'm not sure that there are any brave very senior officers around nowadays - the good ones left when I did!).
Be careful to wish for things - your wish might be granted!
PAYD was driven by popular demand. You were warned at the time that it would all end in tears. And now look at the mess (deliberate pun) you have gotten into!
The initial push for PAYD was via the AMPLT reports (and equivalents in other Services). the only way you could change things now is to SHOUT LOUD AND LONG. It would be a brave CAS who would totally ignore the clamour (mind you, I'm not sure that there are any brave very senior officers around nowadays - the good ones left when I did!).
Be careful to wish for things - your wish might be granted!
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To the best of my knowledge, Pay As You Dine has not yet been approved by the DMB although the 3 into 1 has. This means that all the establishments that are coming up for relet (in a MAC sense) have to combine catering, retail and leisure. If, and it is a big if, the trial sites fail then the DMB will have to look for another option.
This is a tri-service intiative!
This is a tri-service intiative!
Is there anything preventing you from using the Dining Room when you're not eating the wunnerful PAYD $hite?
Arrange with a bunch of chums to have a good local Chinese take-away prepare the odd substantial banquet, then use several mess plates, bowls, cutlery for your meal. Take your time, then leave the lot for the mess to clear up.
Arrange a BYOM barbecue for your chums, leave the resulting debris for the mess to deal with.
In other words, use their facilities but boycott their food.
Arrange with a bunch of chums to have a good local Chinese take-away prepare the odd substantial banquet, then use several mess plates, bowls, cutlery for your meal. Take your time, then leave the lot for the mess to clear up.
Arrange a BYOM barbecue for your chums, leave the resulting debris for the mess to deal with.
In other words, use their facilities but boycott their food.
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TheBeeKeeper
Good question, one I do not know the answer to. I presume customer satisfaction surveys, profitable business etc. Maybe the PAYD Team at DLO Andover could answer this one.
BEagle
I think that all the assetts transfer to the Contractor, so this might not be possible!
Good question, one I do not know the answer to. I presume customer satisfaction surveys, profitable business etc. Maybe the PAYD Team at DLO Andover could answer this one.
BEagle
I think that all the assetts transfer to the Contractor, so this might not be possible!
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What's the equivalent to corkage? - Plateage? No doubt they'd hire the plates, containers, KFSs at a premium rate, or use of the dining facilities, chairs, tables, etc. And don't ask for a jug of water for the Indian! They'd not doubt also charge a fee for clearing up - now, how many stewards at £25 per hour?...
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Or how about the mess members create a fine food society, inviting the old staff to come back and cook. May be increased price, but at least we can enjoy the traditions of our mess knowing we are not filling the pockets of some mega contract caterer. Or how about Social beer calls on squadrons every night instead of inflated bar prices? Bar would be empty however I dare say the Station Commander may take a dim view of PAYD not functioning as advertised due to mess members revolting.
As long as the contrators self-regulate this I will never agree to it; there is too much scope for them to do the absolute minimum required in the contact and furthermore ignore mess member discontent. Seeing as this is Tri-service, the Officers and Sgts messes should request an independent, service led auditing team to determine whether the contractor is providing the required level of service, and us the best value for money, not letting the contractor determine it for themselves. \f they offer anything less, they loose the contract. As a mess member, I dispare at the thought of this lunacy being forced through without a mess vote; once this one is in, I fear the expenditure required to reverse it will mean that any complains will be put down by saying "well, we dont have enough money to put it back as it was"
As long as the contrators self-regulate this I will never agree to it; there is too much scope for them to do the absolute minimum required in the contact and furthermore ignore mess member discontent. Seeing as this is Tri-service, the Officers and Sgts messes should request an independent, service led auditing team to determine whether the contractor is providing the required level of service, and us the best value for money, not letting the contractor determine it for themselves. \f they offer anything less, they loose the contract. As a mess member, I dispare at the thought of this lunacy being forced through without a mess vote; once this one is in, I fear the expenditure required to reverse it will mean that any complains will be put down by saying "well, we dont have enough money to put it back as it was"
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If you really think PAYD is working and popular there are a few horses that could use your blinkers on a Saturday!
Having visited Henlow for a Av-Med course and stayed in the Sgt's mess I have to say it was the poorest food show I have seen in 23 years as a mess member.
The Breakfast experience started with the 'cry' of "Only 6 Items for duty meals"
Confused I looked at the top of the warming cabinet and found a scrappy little sheet with breakfast items listed (which included Juice), and was instructed to tick my preferred 6 items.
Having completed this simple task I returned to the Dinning room to await my breakfast 'feast'. When it arrived I was staggered, 2 streaks of bacon sat next to an anorexic sausage coddled by a single scrambled egg, having chosen Juice as an option the remaining item was listed as 'Tomatoes', the single tinned tomato devoid of juice hardly met my expectation.
Lunch was an omelette and Salad (3 lettuce leaves 3/8s of a tomato and 3 slices of cucumber). Both meals fitted inside the 1” border of a standard RAF plate. I have never left a Sgt's mess hungry after meals. Thank you Henlow and PAYD for a new experience!
Having spoken to the ‘Living-in’ staff up to and including WO’s they generally check out the mess meals, then head for town to buy their own form the local Take-Away outlets, a fine spread of which are available just outside the Station.
As I returned home to Waddington I had a sinking feeling that we have traded the dining facilities of one of the most exclusive clubs in the world for a 3rd rate Transport Café.
I will take some convincing this is a genuine move to improve the wellbeing of any group other than the Treasury. I hope I have retired before we are forced to adopt this across the Force.
Having visited Henlow for a Av-Med course and stayed in the Sgt's mess I have to say it was the poorest food show I have seen in 23 years as a mess member.
The Breakfast experience started with the 'cry' of "Only 6 Items for duty meals"
Confused I looked at the top of the warming cabinet and found a scrappy little sheet with breakfast items listed (which included Juice), and was instructed to tick my preferred 6 items.
Having completed this simple task I returned to the Dinning room to await my breakfast 'feast'. When it arrived I was staggered, 2 streaks of bacon sat next to an anorexic sausage coddled by a single scrambled egg, having chosen Juice as an option the remaining item was listed as 'Tomatoes', the single tinned tomato devoid of juice hardly met my expectation.
Lunch was an omelette and Salad (3 lettuce leaves 3/8s of a tomato and 3 slices of cucumber). Both meals fitted inside the 1” border of a standard RAF plate. I have never left a Sgt's mess hungry after meals. Thank you Henlow and PAYD for a new experience!
Having spoken to the ‘Living-in’ staff up to and including WO’s they generally check out the mess meals, then head for town to buy their own form the local Take-Away outlets, a fine spread of which are available just outside the Station.
As I returned home to Waddington I had a sinking feeling that we have traded the dining facilities of one of the most exclusive clubs in the world for a 3rd rate Transport Café.
I will take some convincing this is a genuine move to improve the wellbeing of any group other than the Treasury. I hope I have retired before we are forced to adopt this across the Force.
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I think they have PAYD in the Palace of Westminster - not sure of the pricing regime - understand you can get a slap-up 4 course with champers for about 15p - so if it's good for them, must be good for the lads!!
Love many, Trust a few, Always paddle your own canoe!
Love many, Trust a few, Always paddle your own canoe!
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I notice the RAF News has ran a feature on PAYD.
"I spend a lot more"
"Overall OM life is a lot worse than before PAYD"
Looks like its being well accepted than. It appears that life in a OM is going to be like living in a cafeteria rather than living in a homely environment. I just hope that someone who is responsible for PAYD realises that we don't want PAYD before OM life is destroyed.
All my friends who have been posted to Henlow have since moved out, due to the fact that mess life has been degraded due to PAYD.
I hope I never have to live in a PAYD mess.
"I spend a lot more"
"Overall OM life is a lot worse than before PAYD"
Looks like its being well accepted than. It appears that life in a OM is going to be like living in a cafeteria rather than living in a homely environment. I just hope that someone who is responsible for PAYD realises that we don't want PAYD before OM life is destroyed.
All my friends who have been posted to Henlow have since moved out, due to the fact that mess life has been degraded due to PAYD.
I hope I never have to live in a PAYD mess.
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PAYD
All my friends who have been posted to Henlow have since moved out, due to the fact that mess life has been degraded due to PAYD
As a Junior Rank at Henlow I no longer have my own eating area, the Junior Ranks now have to mix with / queue behind Contractors , MOD civilians, Wives and kids!!
So much for preserving the 'three mess ethos'
Cheers Eurest!
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Rumour has it that the Invitation To Tender for the PAYD contract was pulled yesterday morning, and that it was due to be signed either yesterday or today!
Any more info anyone?
TBK
Any more info anyone?
TBK
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Rumours?
My informant says that a 'review' is currently on going within HQSTC as to the viability of PAYD after the experiences of the trial sites.
Turns out that the trials were for the benefit of the potential contractors and NOT the customers. Contractors are not convinced that they can turn in a decent profit unless they can completely monopolise ALL retail outlets on a unit.
Henlow's experience has been a disaster & Leuchars has left the JNCOSs miffed at the loss of their mess to the SNCOs & Offrs amongst other things.
Halton was supposed to be amongst the first to introduce PAYD fulltime but is now going to be a trial as well.
Any counter rumours to the above?
Turns out that the trials were for the benefit of the potential contractors and NOT the customers. Contractors are not convinced that they can turn in a decent profit unless they can completely monopolise ALL retail outlets on a unit.
Henlow's experience has been a disaster & Leuchars has left the JNCOSs miffed at the loss of their mess to the SNCOs & Offrs amongst other things.
Halton was supposed to be amongst the first to introduce PAYD fulltime but is now going to be a trial as well.
Any counter rumours to the above?
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Just look at Compass catering, experinced them in the Moors,in the eighties, and elsewhere now look were they are now.
Profit reigns, and the users suffers.
What has changed, nowt, just the urge to make a profit.
In the end I resorted as a Singlie, buying my tucker off base, in essence, paying for it twice.
Nothing seems to have changed, except a downward spiral
Profit reigns, and the users suffers.
What has changed, nowt, just the urge to make a profit.
In the end I resorted as a Singlie, buying my tucker off base, in essence, paying for it twice.
Nothing seems to have changed, except a downward spiral
Found this interesting article about Compass:
Compass catering gone cold
May 3 2005
Daily Post
CATERING group Compass is plotting a business sell-off and share buybacks to placate angry investors.
The Chertsey-based firm is working with advisers on plans to sell assets and return the cash to shareholders, a report said.
It also intends to reduce investment in underperforming businesses or dispose of them.
The company hopes the moves will give chief executive Mike Bailey valuable breathing space to reverse its falling profits.
Some institutional shareholders reportedly have called for Mr Bailey's resignation after the company issued two profit warnings in seven months.
In March, the firm said an increase in lower margin, less risky work would reduce its profits by £15m, spurring brokers to lower their profits expectations for 2005 --in one case by £24m to £620m.
A spokesman for Compass said: "We constantly review the business to ensure shareholder value.
"No decisions have been made and there will be an update on progress at the company's interim results in May.
"We are listening to shareholders and we are fully focused on improving free cash flow and return on capital employed."
Compass, which supplies catering services to schools, has come under fire amid controversy about the quality of school dinners.
One report last month said some English schools were reviewing their contracts with the group's Scolarest division.
The company has annual revenues of £12bn and employs 400,000 people in 90 countries.
There is a difference between PAYD and privatisation. The first ensures that the fatties aren't subsidised by those who eat less, the latter is bean-counting nonsense.
Compass catering gone cold
May 3 2005
Daily Post
CATERING group Compass is plotting a business sell-off and share buybacks to placate angry investors.
The Chertsey-based firm is working with advisers on plans to sell assets and return the cash to shareholders, a report said.
It also intends to reduce investment in underperforming businesses or dispose of them.
The company hopes the moves will give chief executive Mike Bailey valuable breathing space to reverse its falling profits.
Some institutional shareholders reportedly have called for Mr Bailey's resignation after the company issued two profit warnings in seven months.
In March, the firm said an increase in lower margin, less risky work would reduce its profits by £15m, spurring brokers to lower their profits expectations for 2005 --in one case by £24m to £620m.
A spokesman for Compass said: "We constantly review the business to ensure shareholder value.
"No decisions have been made and there will be an update on progress at the company's interim results in May.
"We are listening to shareholders and we are fully focused on improving free cash flow and return on capital employed."
Compass, which supplies catering services to schools, has come under fire amid controversy about the quality of school dinners.
One report last month said some English schools were reviewing their contracts with the group's Scolarest division.
The company has annual revenues of £12bn and employs 400,000 people in 90 countries.
There is a difference between PAYD and privatisation. The first ensures that the fatties aren't subsidised by those who eat less, the latter is bean-counting nonsense.
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PAYD at Henlow, as previously mentioned, has been a disaster.
Poor quality, arguable quantity and appalling staff attitudes. Couple that with the mess being used by contractors, civil servants, families, SNCO's & officers who just want a sandwich and the courses that come through the unit, well, it doesn't make for enjoyable meal times.
But the biggest thing which I know has been touched on, is bar prices. ESS have been given the monopoly on bar prices and even opening times. Our bar, which has the largest attendance not only on the unit, but for our trade, in the RAF, has been restricted to 3 open nights a week. Proposed functions being drastically reduced so not to tread on ESS' toes (which has to be said only gets used once a week because no other bar is open)
I have heard the pro's & cons for PAYD and whilst the principles are favourable, the game plan needs to have a major shake up.
Please, don't be so quick to jump on the PAYD bandwagon, at least try and sample a unit with what it is at the moment, a poor substitute for armed forces messing.
Poor quality, arguable quantity and appalling staff attitudes. Couple that with the mess being used by contractors, civil servants, families, SNCO's & officers who just want a sandwich and the courses that come through the unit, well, it doesn't make for enjoyable meal times.
But the biggest thing which I know has been touched on, is bar prices. ESS have been given the monopoly on bar prices and even opening times. Our bar, which has the largest attendance not only on the unit, but for our trade, in the RAF, has been restricted to 3 open nights a week. Proposed functions being drastically reduced so not to tread on ESS' toes (which has to be said only gets used once a week because no other bar is open)
I have heard the pro's & cons for PAYD and whilst the principles are favourable, the game plan needs to have a major shake up.
Please, don't be so quick to jump on the PAYD bandwagon, at least try and sample a unit with what it is at the moment, a poor substitute for armed forces messing.
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At least the kind of people forcing throug PAYD dont influence other contracts and policies.
"Mmmmm we hear what your saying" = We have already made up our minds!
(I'm sure I'll chear up when the sun comes out)
"Mmmmm we hear what your saying" = We have already made up our minds!
(I'm sure I'll chear up when the sun comes out)