Emirates rumour mill 2
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 138
Likes: 3
From: 1st world country
Funny how you’ve deliberately overlooked my reply.
To answer the discontent about EK pay and benefits.
Annual salary is upward of 110k including flight pay, you then get company accommodation, you get education allowance for your kids, 42 days of holiday, profit share, transportation and more
Last I checked neither british, qantas, ita, air france nor klm give anything comparable.
Again the problem in EK are not the money but some people working here.
To answer the discontent about EK pay and benefits.
Annual salary is upward of 110k including flight pay, you then get company accommodation, you get education allowance for your kids, 42 days of holiday, profit share, transportation and more
Last I checked neither british, qantas, ita, air france nor klm give anything comparable.
Again the problem in EK are not the money but some people working here.
Stockholm syndrome in Italiano…
Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 89
Likes: 49
From: Australia
Funny how you’ve deliberately overlooked my reply.
To answer the discontent about EK pay and benefits.
Annual salary is upward of 110k including flight pay, you then get company accommodation, you get education allowance for your kids, 42 days of holiday, profit share, transportation and more
Last I checked neither british, qantas, ita, air france nor klm give anything comparable.
Again the problem in EK are not the money but some people working here.
To answer the discontent about EK pay and benefits.
Annual salary is upward of 110k including flight pay, you then get company accommodation, you get education allowance for your kids, 42 days of holiday, profit share, transportation and more
Last I checked neither british, qantas, ita, air france nor klm give anything comparable.
Again the problem in EK are not the money but some people working here.
Although, as they say, you shouldn’t meet your heroes.
In the meantime, you’re always welcome here.
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 93
Likes: 45
From: Palm
There they are the uneducated bullies that we have in EK.
What did I say from the start? UK and Australia, I'm never wrong with these two!
Yeah ok, work is hard, but harder than the airlines mentioned above? that I'm not sure.
Selling your soul to the devil and be treated like crap? unsubstantiated and meaningless remarks.
What did I say from the start? UK and Australia, I'm never wrong with these two!
Yeah ok, work is hard, but harder than the airlines mentioned above? that I'm not sure.
Selling your soul to the devil and be treated like crap? unsubstantiated and meaningless remarks.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 68
Likes: 6
From: Dubai Hills
Think the thruth is somewhere in between. You might have been able to stay under the radar but I know all of us know someone who hasn't. The above mentioned European airlines have strong unions so their employees are protected. Fear culture doesn't work there. A few euro's less...thats's true.
Btw, there are some normal Aussies
. But they for sure don't pursue a career in training. However, a pretty little star would be nice. Halas.
Btw, there are some normal Aussies
. But they for sure don't pursue a career in training. However, a pretty little star would be nice. Halas.Last edited by Shazeem; 17th July 2025 at 12:48.
Joined: Nov 2024
Posts: 26
Likes: 12
From: PRC
I agree that the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle, but the gentleman above appears to be staunchly defending EK remuneration without having a full grasp of the broader context. Either he is not currently employed by EK, or he has only recently joined. He’s overlooking several key aspects.
For instance, EK roster system does not align with the practices of the airlines he is so quick to criticise. Particularly when it comes to days off and acclimatisation. If, like many crew, you are from his most hated countries such as the UK or Australia, it is effectively impossible to travel home during your days off. The limited time off combined with acclimatisation rules makes such travel impossible. He’s missing the work/life balance part of his argument completely.
Moreover, the pay and benefits package is not as competitive as he seems to suggest when compared with several of the airlines he disparaged. His argument demonstrates a clear lack of insight into both the current employment landscape at EK and the lived experiences of many of its crew.
I would also note that there are four countries in the United Kingdom, the gentleman appears unaware.
For instance, EK roster system does not align with the practices of the airlines he is so quick to criticise. Particularly when it comes to days off and acclimatisation. If, like many crew, you are from his most hated countries such as the UK or Australia, it is effectively impossible to travel home during your days off. The limited time off combined with acclimatisation rules makes such travel impossible. He’s missing the work/life balance part of his argument completely.
Moreover, the pay and benefits package is not as competitive as he seems to suggest when compared with several of the airlines he disparaged. His argument demonstrates a clear lack of insight into both the current employment landscape at EK and the lived experiences of many of its crew.
I would also note that there are four countries in the United Kingdom, the gentleman appears unaware.
Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 89
Likes: 49
From: Australia
There they are the uneducated bullies that we have in EK.
What did I say from the start? UK and Australia, I'm never wrong with these two!
Yeah ok, work is hard, but harder than the airlines mentioned above? that I'm not sure.
Selling your soul to the devil and be treated like crap? unsubstantiated and meaningless remarks.
What did I say from the start? UK and Australia, I'm never wrong with these two!
Yeah ok, work is hard, but harder than the airlines mentioned above? that I'm not sure.
Selling your soul to the devil and be treated like crap? unsubstantiated and meaningless remarks.
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 172
Likes: 163
From: Hong Kong
Funny how you’ve deliberately overlooked my reply.
To answer the discontent about EK pay and benefits.
Annual salary is upward of 110k including flight pay, you then get company accommodation, you get education allowance for your kids, 42 days of holiday, profit share, transportation and more
Last I checked neither british, qantas, ita, air france nor klm give anything comparable.
Again the problem in EK are not the money but some people working here.
To answer the discontent about EK pay and benefits.
Annual salary is upward of 110k including flight pay, you then get company accommodation, you get education allowance for your kids, 42 days of holiday, profit share, transportation and more
Last I checked neither british, qantas, ita, air france nor klm give anything comparable.
Again the problem in EK are not the money but some people working here.
Moreover, your own arguments seem to lack consistency and credibility. On one hand, you criticize the financial packages offered in the Middle East, yet you paradoxically feel the need to promote them. This contradiction undermines the validity of your claims.
.
Last edited by TBL Warrior; 18th July 2025 at 15:36.
Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 89
Likes: 49
From: Australia
While I acknowledge your perspective regarding British and Australian pilots, I believe it's important to provide some context. Yes, they may sometimes come across as "strict," but this is typically directed towards individuals who demonstrate substandard abilities, poor decision-making, or inadequate English Language Proficiency (ELP). This is not a reflection of their overall demeanor but rather a professional standard they uphold in aviation.
Moreover, your own arguments seem to lack consistency and credibility. On one hand, you criticize the financial packages offered in the Middle East, yet you paradoxically feel the need to promote them. This contradiction undermines the validity of your claims.
.
Moreover, your own arguments seem to lack consistency and credibility. On one hand, you criticize the financial packages offered in the Middle East, yet you paradoxically feel the need to promote them. This contradiction undermines the validity of your claims.
.
Ermm….
Joined: Apr 2024
Posts: 138
Likes: 62
From: DXB
I agree that the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle, but the gentleman above appears to be staunchly defending EK remuneration without having a full grasp of the broader context. Either he is not currently employed by EK, or he has only recently joined. He’s overlooking several key aspects.
For instance, EK roster system does not align with the practices of the airlines he is so quick to criticise. Particularly when it comes to days off and acclimatisation. If, like many crew, you are from his most hated countries such as the UK or Australia, it is effectively impossible to travel home during your days off. The limited time off combined with acclimatisation rules makes such travel impossible. He’s missing the work/life balance part of his argument completely.
Moreover, the pay and benefits package is not as competitive as he seems to suggest when compared with several of the airlines he disparaged. His argument demonstrates a clear lack of insight into both the current employment landscape at EK and the lived experiences of many of its crew.
I would also note that there are four countries in the United Kingdom, the gentleman appears unaware.
For instance, EK roster system does not align with the practices of the airlines he is so quick to criticise. Particularly when it comes to days off and acclimatisation. If, like many crew, you are from his most hated countries such as the UK or Australia, it is effectively impossible to travel home during your days off. The limited time off combined with acclimatisation rules makes such travel impossible. He’s missing the work/life balance part of his argument completely.
Moreover, the pay and benefits package is not as competitive as he seems to suggest when compared with several of the airlines he disparaged. His argument demonstrates a clear lack of insight into both the current employment landscape at EK and the lived experiences of many of its crew.
I would also note that there are four countries in the United Kingdom, the gentleman appears unaware.
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 46
Likes: 29
From: In the sky
While we are talking about different cultures in EK… As I said - I left EK many moons ago. But I still work with people with various backgrounds and nationalities (Aussies and South Africans in particular).
In EK I thought, it’s an an EK thing and people have been just conditioned. NOPE!
Here I say it.. South Africans and Australians are the worst! Australians still think they have invented flying (which is not the case for obvious reasons) and South Africans still have this „being superior” attitude (which is not the case either and it never has been BTW)!
An Australian explaining how Cold WX OPS works, to someone like me (from Northern Europe) is just hilarious…. It’s one example of many.
What do I know…
In EK I thought, it’s an an EK thing and people have been just conditioned. NOPE!
Here I say it.. South Africans and Australians are the worst! Australians still think they have invented flying (which is not the case for obvious reasons) and South Africans still have this „being superior” attitude (which is not the case either and it never has been BTW)!
An Australian explaining how Cold WX OPS works, to someone like me (from Northern Europe) is just hilarious…. It’s one example of many.
What do I know…
Last edited by FQT2YS; 21st July 2025 at 10:41.
Joined: Dec 2017
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 67
Likes: 19
From: FL400
Simo take it easy!
I totally understand your frustration with the behavior of some though certainly not all Australian pilots. Australian pilots often carry a bit of a bad reputation, but I’m sure there are many excellent ones out there as well. The same goes for the Brits, generalizations never tell the full story. To be fair, I’ve had similar negative experiences with pilots from my own nationality as well. 😒
That said, I’ve heard from multiple reliable sources that within Emirates, some training captains and members of management can display unprofessional and even disrespectful attitudes. Interestingly, many of the individuals mentioned happen to be British or Australian but I should emphasize that this is second-hand information from current and former employees with whom I have very good relationship.
Even so, I believe that for foreigners, working at EK might still be a more viable and even preferable option compared to some of the other companies discussed. People often assume that being part of a union in those other places guarantees fair treatment, but they forget the reality: the agreements are in the local language, and unions often do little to advocate for you if you’re a foreigner. Internal departments can also make you feel unwelcome or even humiliated just because you’re not from there. Imagine being denied a contractual right and having to fight tooth and nail to assert it all while being careful to keep your job because of the responsibility to feed family back home. That part, unfortunately, comes from personal experience.
Someone brought up safety culture oh boy. safety culture? Seriously? In my experience, it has been practically non-existent. I witnessed far too many cover-ups and serious mishandlings to take that claim seriously. Believe me, the gap between what’s preached and what’s practiced is huge.
That salary package at Emirates, including all benefits, seems to be more attractive initially compared to the net amount at the other airlines mentioned. But whether that remains true in the long run as your career progresses I’m honestly not sure, as I haven’t done a detailed comparison. What I do know is that in many of those other airlines, the captain upgrade typically takes 10+ years, whereas at EK, it’s often around half that time. That could make a significant difference in long-term earnings and career growth.
Being treated like crap happens even within some of the so-called top-tier airlines that people often hold in high regard. I say this from personal experience, having worked for one of those big names.
Now, I used to find intriguing reading about crew using escape ropes in the cockpit and cabin crew fights, it made me feel a bit better for flying for an airline where people behaved like they were in a jungle
I totally understand your frustration with the behavior of some though certainly not all Australian pilots. Australian pilots often carry a bit of a bad reputation, but I’m sure there are many excellent ones out there as well. The same goes for the Brits, generalizations never tell the full story. To be fair, I’ve had similar negative experiences with pilots from my own nationality as well. 😒
That said, I’ve heard from multiple reliable sources that within Emirates, some training captains and members of management can display unprofessional and even disrespectful attitudes. Interestingly, many of the individuals mentioned happen to be British or Australian but I should emphasize that this is second-hand information from current and former employees with whom I have very good relationship.
Even so, I believe that for foreigners, working at EK might still be a more viable and even preferable option compared to some of the other companies discussed. People often assume that being part of a union in those other places guarantees fair treatment, but they forget the reality: the agreements are in the local language, and unions often do little to advocate for you if you’re a foreigner. Internal departments can also make you feel unwelcome or even humiliated just because you’re not from there. Imagine being denied a contractual right and having to fight tooth and nail to assert it all while being careful to keep your job because of the responsibility to feed family back home. That part, unfortunately, comes from personal experience.
Someone brought up safety culture oh boy. safety culture? Seriously? In my experience, it has been practically non-existent. I witnessed far too many cover-ups and serious mishandlings to take that claim seriously. Believe me, the gap between what’s preached and what’s practiced is huge.
That salary package at Emirates, including all benefits, seems to be more attractive initially compared to the net amount at the other airlines mentioned. But whether that remains true in the long run as your career progresses I’m honestly not sure, as I haven’t done a detailed comparison. What I do know is that in many of those other airlines, the captain upgrade typically takes 10+ years, whereas at EK, it’s often around half that time. That could make a significant difference in long-term earnings and career growth.
Being treated like crap happens even within some of the so-called top-tier airlines that people often hold in high regard. I say this from personal experience, having worked for one of those big names.
Now, I used to find intriguing reading about crew using escape ropes in the cockpit and cabin crew fights, it made me feel a bit better for flying for an airline where people behaved like they were in a jungle
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 36
Likes: 55
From: KSA
At my company, we don’t have any British, Australian, or South African pilots, so I can’t speak broadly. But the one British captain we do have is highly professional, and none of the stereotypes I see thrown around here apply to him.
If I flew with an expat pilot from Northern Europe who briefed me on hot weather ops; something I might know better than him I’d still listen. Because I don’t know his background. He might surprise me with something useful, or he might say something that’s off, which gives me the chance to clarify. No ego involved just professionalism. I’d rather be prepared than caught off guard.
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 44
Likes: 3
From: i don't know
I don’t work for EK never have, never will. I’m genuinely curious: why would you be offended if an Australian pilot briefed you on cold weather ops, even if you happen to be more experienced in that area? Personally, I’d see it as an opportunity. If he says something incorrect, you can step in and correct it. If he shares something you didn’t know, you walk away having learned something new. Either way, it’s a win-win.
At my company, we don’t have any British, Australian, or South African pilots, so I can’t speak broadly. But the one British captain we do have is highly professional, and none of the stereotypes I see thrown around here apply to him.
If I flew with an expat pilot from Northern Europe who briefed me on hot weather ops; something I might know better than him I’d still listen. Because I don’t know his background. He might surprise me with something useful, or he might say something that’s off, which gives me the chance to clarify. No ego involved just professionalism. I’d rather be prepared than caught off guard.
At my company, we don’t have any British, Australian, or South African pilots, so I can’t speak broadly. But the one British captain we do have is highly professional, and none of the stereotypes I see thrown around here apply to him.
If I flew with an expat pilot from Northern Europe who briefed me on hot weather ops; something I might know better than him I’d still listen. Because I don’t know his background. He might surprise me with something useful, or he might say something that’s off, which gives me the chance to clarify. No ego involved just professionalism. I’d rather be prepared than caught off guard.
BUT it was -10 degrees and as it is named COLD WX operations he told me i had to do it. I asked twice to explain it to me and it was right because it was COLD, as clearly stated in the name of COLD WX OPS.
At the end, i did anti-ice, being on a line check. Passed.
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 313
Likes: 108
From: Doomadgee
I think you have a serious problem mate. It doesn’t matter where the chap is from, I’m sure, if he’s a captain in ek, he/she would be adhering to EK SOPs on Cold weather ops and had extensive training on the topic. Doesn’t have squat to do with where you are from.
Joined: Feb 2024
Posts: 89
Likes: 49
From: Australia
I don’t work for EK never have, never will. I’m genuinely curious: why would you be offended if an Australian pilot briefed you on cold weather ops, even if you happen to be more experienced in that area? Personally, I’d see it as an opportunity. If he says something incorrect, you can step in and correct it. If he shares something you didn’t know, you walk away having learned something new. Either way, it’s a win-win.
At my company, we don’t have any British, Australian, or South African pilots, so I can’t speak broadly. But the one British captain we do have is highly professional, and none of the stereotypes I see thrown around here apply to him.
If I flew with an expat pilot from Northern Europe who briefed me on hot weather ops; something I might know better than him I’d still listen. Because I don’t know his background. He might surprise me with something useful, or he might say something that’s off, which gives me the chance to clarify. No ego involved just professionalism. I’d rather be prepared than caught off guard.
At my company, we don’t have any British, Australian, or South African pilots, so I can’t speak broadly. But the one British captain we do have is highly professional, and none of the stereotypes I see thrown around here apply to him.
If I flew with an expat pilot from Northern Europe who briefed me on hot weather ops; something I might know better than him I’d still listen. Because I don’t know his background. He might surprise me with something useful, or he might say something that’s off, which gives me the chance to clarify. No ego involved just professionalism. I’d rather be prepared than caught off guard.
Opinions without experience aren’t worth much
Joined: Jan 2025
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 166
Likes: 137
From: Mars
My question is what next? Everyone forbidden from briefing any Canadian or Scandinavian on anything cold weather? A captain cannot brief an FO on a steep approach if that FO used to be based in LCY or anywhere else with a steep approach? Nobody not from Africa is allowed to brief or fly over Africa? No briefing of any engine failures/fires to someone who has experienced a real one (what on earth you gonna tell him about it when he's done one?)?
Why not just do away with all briefs where the person briefing has less experience than the other - that's what the root of this gets to, subconsciously or not.
A very slippery slope towards the danger zone of no CRM.
Why not just do away with all briefs where the person briefing has less experience than the other - that's what the root of this gets to, subconsciously or not.
A very slippery slope towards the danger zone of no CRM.
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 93
Likes: 45
From: Palm
The responses and comments in this thread clearly show the behaviors I was referring to. Unfortunately, this kind of conduct marked by hostility, dishonesty, and underhandedness is something I’ve repeatedly encountered from certain British and Australian colleagues.Someone earlier mentioned that they come across as “strict.” In my experience, that’s not true. Rather, the problem is a widespread lack of knowledge among some individuals, particularly in operational contexts within EK. When their mistakes are pointed out constructively, the response is often emotionally immature, defensive, dismissive, and at times, outright disrespectful.
Let me provide a concrete example: You’re on a flight and notice a colleague has made a procedural error. You politely point it out and explain the correct method. Instead of engaging in a professional dialogue, the person becomes combative, accuses you of not knowing what you’re talking about, and defends their actions by citing their years of experience. When you reference the official manuals and standard operating procedures, they may claim the documents are flawed or written by incompetent pilots. Eventually, when they realize they were indeed mistaken, instead of acknowledging the error, they shift the blame by literally making up stories often directing it toward the very person who tried to help.
Thankfully, EK still has a few individuals in management and safety roles who are willing to listen objectively and take appropriate action. Notably, these individuals have not typically been from the groups in question.
Unfortunately, the hostility often doesn’t stop there. The individual may continue the conflict through passive-aggressive behavior, ridicule, or baseless accusations even blaming others for situations on days they weren’t even flying. These subtle attacks and unfounded gossip most often continue simply because someone performs better or demonstrates a stronger understanding of procedures. Why respond with resentment and personal attacks?
This pattern is also evident in the simulator environment. Alarmingly, this behavior is sometimes exhibited even by training captains, who should be setting the standard for professionalism and openness to feedback. Again, most of them Brits and aussies.
To be clear: I’m always open to learning, and if someone respectfully shares knowledge or corrects a misunderstanding, I’ll listen and take it onboard. The problem is not with being corrected it’s with how the correction is delivered. Many of the examples cited above, such as explanations of cold weather operations or LVO procedures, are marred by an aggressive, arrogant tone that compromise effective CRM.
I encourage anyone reading this to revisit the previous comments in this thread. The dismissive and immature tone from a few users only reinforces the concerns I’ve raised.
Let me provide a concrete example: You’re on a flight and notice a colleague has made a procedural error. You politely point it out and explain the correct method. Instead of engaging in a professional dialogue, the person becomes combative, accuses you of not knowing what you’re talking about, and defends their actions by citing their years of experience. When you reference the official manuals and standard operating procedures, they may claim the documents are flawed or written by incompetent pilots. Eventually, when they realize they were indeed mistaken, instead of acknowledging the error, they shift the blame by literally making up stories often directing it toward the very person who tried to help.
Thankfully, EK still has a few individuals in management and safety roles who are willing to listen objectively and take appropriate action. Notably, these individuals have not typically been from the groups in question.
Unfortunately, the hostility often doesn’t stop there. The individual may continue the conflict through passive-aggressive behavior, ridicule, or baseless accusations even blaming others for situations on days they weren’t even flying. These subtle attacks and unfounded gossip most often continue simply because someone performs better or demonstrates a stronger understanding of procedures. Why respond with resentment and personal attacks?
This pattern is also evident in the simulator environment. Alarmingly, this behavior is sometimes exhibited even by training captains, who should be setting the standard for professionalism and openness to feedback. Again, most of them Brits and aussies.
To be clear: I’m always open to learning, and if someone respectfully shares knowledge or corrects a misunderstanding, I’ll listen and take it onboard. The problem is not with being corrected it’s with how the correction is delivered. Many of the examples cited above, such as explanations of cold weather operations or LVO procedures, are marred by an aggressive, arrogant tone that compromise effective CRM.
I encourage anyone reading this to revisit the previous comments in this thread. The dismissive and immature tone from a few users only reinforces the concerns I’ve raised.
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 93
Likes: 45
From: Palm
I don’t work for EK never have, never will. I’m genuinely curious: why would you be offended if an Australian pilot briefed you on cold weather ops, even if you happen to be more experienced in that area? Personally, I’d see it as an opportunity. If he says something incorrect, you can step in and correct it. If he shares something you didn’t know, you walk away having learned something new. Either way, it’s a win-win.
At my company, we don’t have any British, Australian, or South African pilots, so I can’t speak broadly. But the one British captain we do have is highly professional, and none of the stereotypes I see thrown around here apply to him.
If I flew with an expat pilot from Northern Europe who briefed me on hot weather ops; something I might know better than him I’d still listen. Because I don’t know his background. He might surprise me with something useful, or he might say something that’s off, which gives me the chance to clarify. No ego involved just professionalism. I’d rather be prepared than caught off guard.
At my company, we don’t have any British, Australian, or South African pilots, so I can’t speak broadly. But the one British captain we do have is highly professional, and none of the stereotypes I see thrown around here apply to him.
If I flew with an expat pilot from Northern Europe who briefed me on hot weather ops; something I might know better than him I’d still listen. Because I don’t know his background. He might surprise me with something useful, or he might say something that’s off, which gives me the chance to clarify. No ego involved just professionalism. I’d rather be prepared than caught off guard.
Let me be direct about what I’ve experienced in the Middle East with some British and Australian colleagues. They fly with you one day, maybe you makes a mistake, nothing major, just the kind of thing that happens to all of us. Then the next day, they’re flying with me and immediately start badmouthing that person, saying how unsafe or clueless they are. It doesn’t stop there either sometimes they even start making sweeping comments about people from entire nationalities, especially Arabs. It’s completely out of line.
This kind of attitude talking behind people’s backs, acting superior, and spreading negativity that creates a toxic environment. And what’s frustrating is that it’s not about safety or improving standards, it’s about ego. That’s the part that’s most damaging. They ruined EK, they will ruin QR soon and then RIA will be next if they are allowed to join en masse.