Emirates...is this for real!!???
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I don’t want to get technical but there’s a couple of errors that you could drive a truck through on that video above that stands out;
1/ Flight directors initially command 8 degrees nose up through the take off roll and command a pitch angle based on speed after rotate. E.g V2-V2+15. The flight directors are independent of MCP setting and they do not sit at zero during initial take off as alluded to.
2/ The Flight director pitch angle wouldn’t/ should not changed after take off until VNAV automatically engages at 400ft if armed or another mode was manually selected prior to this point.
I think there might have been a bit more that went on other than what this very basic video has concluded, Be fair to the crew and let the investigation run its course.
1/ Flight directors initially command 8 degrees nose up through the take off roll and command a pitch angle based on speed after rotate. E.g V2-V2+15. The flight directors are independent of MCP setting and they do not sit at zero during initial take off as alluded to.
2/ The Flight director pitch angle wouldn’t/ should not changed after take off until VNAV automatically engages at 400ft if armed or another mode was manually selected prior to this point.
I think there might have been a bit more that went on other than what this very basic video has concluded, Be fair to the crew and let the investigation run its course.
I don’t want to get technical but there’s a couple of errors that you could drive a truck through on that video above that stands out;
1/ Flight directors initially command 8 degrees nose up through the take off roll and command a pitch angle based on speed after rotate. E.g V2-V2+15. The flight directors are independent of MCP setting and they do not sit at zero during initial take off as alluded to.
2/ The Flight director pitch angle wouldn’t/ should not changed after take off until VNAV automatically engages at 400ft if armed or another mode was manually selected prior to this point.
I think there might have been a bit more that went on other than what this very basic video has concluded, Be fair to the crew and let the investigation run its course.
1/ Flight directors initially command 8 degrees nose up through the take off roll and command a pitch angle based on speed after rotate. E.g V2-V2+15. The flight directors are independent of MCP setting and they do not sit at zero during initial take off as alluded to.
2/ The Flight director pitch angle wouldn’t/ should not changed after take off until VNAV automatically engages at 400ft if armed or another mode was manually selected prior to this point.
I think there might have been a bit more that went on other than what this very basic video has concluded, Be fair to the crew and let the investigation run its course.
Hopefully, lessons learned and if crew have been fired, just be thankful that they (and all their pax and people they flew over at VERY low altitude) are still alive.
Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 5th Feb 2022 at 07:24.
No matter how you slice it, the incompetence is breath-taking. Should we expect to hear more or has the EK machine succesfully buried this?
Good video, marred by the statement near the end that the crew should have returned because of the overspeed. That is non-sense.
Good video, marred by the statement near the end that the crew should have returned because of the overspeed. That is non-sense.
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It’s a good point you raise Bananas about maybe getting TOGA/ALT with 0000 in the MCP once airborne but the flight director still would have commanded an initial 8 degree pitch during rotation so that should have been normal at Vr and through to getting airborne. It would be an interesting one for the sim as I can’t find any reference to contradict what I posted previously except for the possibility of what you raise. Keep discovering they say!
It’s a good point you raise Bananas about maybe getting TOGA/ALT with 0000 in the MCP once airborne but the flight director still would have commanded an initial 8 degree pitch during rotation so that should have been normal at Vr and through to getting airborne. It would be an interesting one for the sim as I can’t find any reference to contradict what I posted previously except for the possibility of what you raise. Keep discovering they say!
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At QR we always did a takeoff review just before takeoff…..TOGA TOGA LNAV VNAV ARMED…4000* feet , heading 300 flaps 5 or something like that…(I was pretty sure that was actually adopted from Emirates as we had so many managers from there
seems like that would have caught this error, so wondering if Emirates no longer practices this.
after takeoff they would have been probably 85 tons over max landing weight which complicates the decision to return also coupled with the punitive management in middle east where you know you will likely be fired for any embarrassment on company
seems like that would have caught this error, so wondering if Emirates no longer practices this.
after takeoff they would have been probably 85 tons over max landing weight which complicates the decision to return also coupled with the punitive management in middle east where you know you will likely be fired for any embarrassment on company
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Not sure about that. My information (as in, feedback from someone who tried just that in the sim) is that if 0000 is set in the MCP Altitude Window before the F/Ds are first selected ON and provided the actual elevation shown on the PFD baro altimeter was within the capture parameter then the F/D Flight Mode Annunciators would show TOGA/ALT when first selected ON. Subsequently setting 4000 in the MCP Altitude Window would not change anything and there would be no pitch up command shown on the F/D pitch bar at any stage prior to a Mode Change being made.
Have trIed it myself
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Someone who pulls off a stunt like this, especially in the L seat has no place in any cockpit. She is still in service?
Sadly the #take-off-review was removed from EK procedures many moons ago. Getting in line with Boeing procedures it was called…
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Having been out of cockpits lately a question: Upon realisation of a unusual mode/indication, would a push of the TOGA switch resolve the problem?
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I agree 100%. No matter what any indication in the cockpit shows, if the buildings in the window get bigger, you shove up the levers and pull the yoke. Stop bar and 15degs sound about right. I guess even the proverbial monkey in the cockpit would try some evasive action.
Having been out of cockpits lately a question: Upon realisation of a unusual mode/indication, would a push of the TOGA switch resolve the problem?
Having been out of cockpits lately a question: Upon realisation of a unusual mode/indication, would a push of the TOGA switch resolve the problem?
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I can understand the mistake or some glitch with the MCP but , flying straight and level for miles at few feet from ground with no action with four pilots in the cockpit , that scares me.
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pfvpnf. Should be published in the FAA/GCAA final report.
From the horses mouth…
Is it true that all crew were silently removed from payroll? Just connecting some dots after reading an article in GN which reported ‘someone also tampered with the cvr’….
Cannot believe anyone would be so naive in the flightdeck to think one could get away with this kind of stunt…
From the horses mouth…
Is it true that all crew were silently removed from payroll? Just connecting some dots after reading an article in GN which reported ‘someone also tampered with the cvr’….
Cannot believe anyone would be so naive in the flightdeck to think one could get away with this kind of stunt…
pfvpnf. Should be published in the FAA/GCAA final report.
From the horses mouth…
Is it true that all crew were silently removed from payroll? Just connecting some dots after reading an article in GN which reported ‘someone also tampered with the cvr’….
Cannot believe anyone would be so naive in the flightdeck to think one could get away with this kind of stunt…
From the horses mouth…
Is it true that all crew were silently removed from payroll? Just connecting some dots after reading an article in GN which reported ‘someone also tampered with the cvr’….
Cannot believe anyone would be so naive in the flightdeck to think one could get away with this kind of stunt…
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